"Panther tank" Topic

Hello all,

I was just wondering what your opinions were on the best 1/72-20 mm Panther was. Preferably in the US, and I was wondering your opinions on the wargaming/fast-build and the harder kits.

I was interested in the Zvezda Panther D, because of its snap-fit capabilities, while also being interested in the Panther G, which participated in the Battle of the Bulge.

Overall, what are the best Panthers on the market today, and if so, what are the pros and cons? And are there any Panther Ausf Gs that are well made and detailed?

Thanks,

MU

Revell made some excellent 1/72 panthers. I have made a few. The tracks are the hardest part of assembly.

The Plastic Soldier Company Panther take some beating! Sculpted with zimmerit and very easy assembly…

If your want zimmert on your panther there is always Dragon 1/72 Panther.

They cost a little more.

If you look @ the models first, the Revell Panther G is readily available & @ a good price. It comes in 2 different boxes, enabling you to make an ausf D or the ausf A variant. The other boxing is for the ausf G. Parts are crisply moulded & flash free. The link & length tracks look good, but can be a challenge to work with, but patience will produce a fine result.
The downside of the models are the glacis plate, it is too shallow, making the top deck somewhat cramped. The commanders cupola should have 7 episcopes, the model has 6. Apart from that, if you can live with the short comings it is not a bad model.
By far the best ausf G is the Dragon model & it comes with the zimmerit moulded on. SGT Dutch has kindly posted an image of the ready made model available separately as opposed to the kit. As you can see, it looks every inch a Panther, although the camouflage scheme, great in the Bocage, is not one readily identified as being authentic. Personally who cares about that! I wargamed with one in a Bocage setting & the camouflage is superb !
The downside, both the ready made model, which is very scarce to find & the kit require some searching on E-bay to locate. There are other Dragon G models, BUT the earlier releases come with a diecast hull & do not assemble very well @ all, the gaps can be considerable !
There is another boxing of the Dragon Panther with steel wheels, these saw very limited service, although well documented serving with Kampfgruppe Peiper, 2 or 3 tanks if I remember in the 2nd company. Again a fine model.

Having bored all readers to death now & you're still with me ? Both the Dragon & Zvezda Ausf D models are good kits & been well received. The Zvezda model comes with easy to assemble tracks which clip into place,but patience is reqd. there ! It is marketed as a quick build model that clips together, it sure does, but is not supposed to come apart again.
The Dragon tracks are the band type but well detailed.

Moving on to the Fast assembly types, I've only tackled the Armourfast model. 2 in a box is good value, they look good, if sparse on detail, the tracks as most similar models are not well detailed. The exhausts are meant for the very late Ausf G model as is the mantlet for the gun, being the reinforced variant designed to reduce the shot trap under the turret. These saw limited service in the Ardennes, so for an accurate time period, Christmas '44 onwards.

Easy model from China, they are part of the Trumpeter plastic company, have been promising all three variants of the Panther family for some years & these have still not materialised. They ought to be good war gaming pieces, IF they ever get released.

PSC has released a zimmeritted ausf A, personally not seen it myself, but well received by many.

Avoid the Airfix Panther, it is ripe for a make over & its only 1/76.

Apologies for boring anyone to death !

Depends who you're asking as to what criteria they're going to apply.
I like the dragon because they are the most accurate representation IMO.
Partly as they have zimmerit on them and almost all panthers would have.
BUT they are expensive.

I also like the psc since they're easy to make…. and have zimmerit.

How much of a rivet counting tread head are you?
How much money do you want to spend?
How much time do you want to spend?

By 1/72 do you actually include 1/76 because the milicast panther is superb.
link

The armourfast panthers are very cheap. Obviously, if you're paying twenty odd quid for one dragon model and 7.50 for two armourfast then the quality isn't going to be great.

My 20mm Panthers are mostly elderly Matchbox ones, plus some pre-paints (don't think they are Dragon). The Matchbox ones are decent enough kits but based on their other stuff I would imagine the much more modern PSC ones are far better.

Dragon and a few other companies make pre-painted die cast models that are hard to beat for sheer convenience.

If you need a simple straightforward Panther suitable for wargaming, Armourfast makes a pretty good one.

PSC is a little bit more complex, but have the bonus of having zimmerit.

If you want a standard model kit, Hasegawa makes a good one.

I want to spend about $12 USD-15 on each kit. I'm not much of a rivet counter, as long as it looks accurate.
I was interested in Zvezda, As it required no glue and MEK fumes…
I need a suitable Ausf G, I was looking at Revell and Hasegawa.

Ok I wanted to show a picture of the made up PSC panther but there don't seem to be too many out there yet. Unfortunately the only photos I have posted are incidental ones of one of mine which I have converted to a BergePanther, but at least it will serve to show its overall size and lovely track hang:

The Wespes alongside it are the 1/76th Matchbox ones to give an idea of how accurately the PSC Panther is to scale:

In the far bottom right corner – check out that lovely track sag!

google image it, any number of the excellent PSC in the vaults of the hinterwb

Here is a link to On the way website. This link is article about the Zevzda, Revell and Dragon Panthers. In the article it tells you all the pitfalls of these kits.
link

Also here is a link from the same sight for building the perfect "D" model: link

I would avoid the Italeri fast build Panther G (it might be OOP now?). Something weird has happened with the track sag creating an impression of the tracks being wrapped around the drive sprocket.

link

@Sparker: that's a lovely BergePanther!

I assume that the best kit for d,g, or a is the Revell. However, the quick build kits are the Zvezda for the D, the PSC for the A, and the what for the G?

Thanks Cardy, but I didn't get any brass turned muzzle brakes in my box…

And I shook it out and all….

…the quick build kits … and the what for the G?

As I mentioned the Italeri fast build Panther is a G. Apart from the horrible tracks, the rest of the model is pretty decent (plenty of pics at HoH if you follow my link). If you can still find them you could:

a) ignore the horrible running gear
b) make some skirts out of plastic card and hide them
c) replace them with tracks from a Hat Jagdpanther (or similar…)

c) is what I did but it didn't end up being such a "fast" build after I finished mucking around with all that! :o)

I put a review of the PSC panther on my blog. In short it has some accuracy problems, but nothing major. Most glaring error is the missing zimmerit on the lower front hull. Judge for yourself if it's a dealbreaker or not.
link

PSC all the way for cost and ease…

And I see the good Cardinal already showed the WIP version!

I like the Italeri quick build Panther G's. they gho together very well and are decent wargames models.

link

For quick builders. The ideal combination of Panthers well for me anyway

1) Zvezda- For the D type eg Kursk Etc

2) PSC- For the A type ( Normandy onwards)Super model

3) Italeri- Late model G , Very late war onwards .

To Fill the gap early Gs I use Dragon although they are not quick build.

Or you could just play with the Airfix one ;-)

Seriously, the PSC one is probably the best, though I hate Zimmerit..

I would avoid the Italeri fast build Panther G (it might be OOP now?). Something weird has happened with the track sag creating an impression of the tracks being wrapped around the drive sprocket.

Doh! I had not paid particular attention to that detail, but now that you mention it looks a bit odd.

Maybe I should consider hacking off the side skirts from my Revell Panthers and mounting them on these Italeri tanks to hide those problem areas.

Maybe I should consider hacking off the side skirts from my Revell Panthers and mounting them on these Italeri tanks to hide those problem areas.

Skirts are a good option for this. Unfortunately the only spare sets I had were from Hasegawa Panthers and they certainly weren't compatible scale-wise. I couldn't be bothered making them from scratch hence my decision to transplant entire running gear from some spare Hat Jagdpanthers – perfect fit in overall size but all the locator pins on the Italeri model make them a massive pain to replace.

Allow me to recomended you this page my friend.

panther1944.de/index.php

For translation you can used.
translate.google.com/#de/en

Hope you enjoy!.

Amicalement
Armand

I am expecting S Model to bring out a nice model G eventually.I know its on the cards.

Thanks Tango! Very helpful.

But did the late Ausf Gs have zimmerit? Because I bought a Hasegawa Panther( I know, I know, it's very old, has bad details…) but I just wanted to try it out. It has no zimmerit, so should here be any?

Anyway, how accurate is the Revell Panther G? Does it have correct details, like the engine deck, or is it a combination of As, Ds, and Gs?

MU

But did the late Ausf Gs have zimmerit?

No, not on late Gs. Discontinued Sep 44…

So, how good is the Revell?

The Revell is still a fair kit by todays standards. I still have some in service ie Gs . My A's have all been replaced by the PSC model which is a far superior model IMO .For the D type I would pick the Zvesda or Dragon over the Revell .

The D/A kit does have some inaccuracies or ommisions. For both the G & D/A kits, some say the Glasis plate is at the wrong angle and the turret roof a tad too short. But as wargames models they are still good.

There are better G models such as the Dragon but these can be harder to source.

IMO the Revell is still a nice kit to build but stick to the G type .

I guess all this goes to show you can never have too many different sources for a Panther model! :-)

Fred- I suppose there is always the Tiger. I think nearly every man and his dog produces one of those :)

I'm still confused… What's so bad about the Dragon ones? I want to know if they have a late production Ausf G with the chin mantelet. If so, is it good?

How good is the Dragon Ausf G early production w/Zimmerit?

I think Sgt Dutch already pointed you to OTW, but for a list of Dragon kits including previews of some of their Panthers try here:

link

Well I have the Panther G Early production type and there is not a lot IMO wrong with it as the model goes .

Its main problem is probably availability and price. I have 4 of these in my collection and very happy with them . Another great thing about this kit is the amount of spare/left over pieces including lots of tow cables.

If you are happy with the price and can get it then buy with confidence . The Revell G is much easier to get but doesn't come zimmed .

Ok thanks,and OTW does not have any previews or reviews for the Dragon Panthers. Isn't it correct that the Revell Panther bit have zimmerit, as it's a late production vehicle?

Ok thanks,and OTW does not have any previews or reviews for the Dragon Panthers.

Yes it does – all linked from the Dragon kit list page I linked above, plus some overall summary comments of any key plus/minus features of each kit. For example:

7205 Sd.Kfz. 171 Panther Ausf. G Early

Includes a very poor die-cast metal hull and chassis. Very poor fit. Vinyl tracks. Note that early G's (the ones without the reinforced gun mantlet) carried Zimmerit, which the kit does not have.

and link to full preview:
link

etc…

The Die cast metal hull is in reference to the very early Dragon kits . I have an F type with this arrangement . If you don't use the screws and use superglue instead a better fit is obtained with minimal filling .

The New kits are now of course are all plastic + a few brass etched optional parts .

The New kits are now of course are all plastic + a few brass etched optional parts.

Yes, that is true. I only displayed it because it just happens to be the first Panther on the OTW Dragon page… contrary to the claim that OTW does not have any previews or reviews for the Dragon Panthers.

Would Kursk Panthers have zimmeritt or is that a later addition? Thanks

Like how Piers got the PSC to look, but should my Kursk tanks be smooth?

I believe no zim at Kursk. AFAIK some photos which purport to be zim'ed Panthers from Kursk period are incorrectly dated. More background here:

link

I concur with Hornswoggler. Zim came after Kursk although this wouldn't preclude me using zimmed models for Kursk if the need arose .

That's a shame – those PSC did look nice. But smooth Panthers it is for me. Nice link by the way Horns. Thanks

Trumpeter have some panthers on the way, not sure when though.

What's the best source of replacement mg34 for psc panthers?

IMO MMS Models. They do a pack containing both Mg34 and 42 AA mounts for tanks. Pack no A48.

SHQ also do 2 packs for the 250/251 which also may be suitable,

What's the best source of replacement mg34 for psc panthers?

Are you put off by the thickness/soft detail of the PSC MGs?

I must admit I didn't really like the look of the MGs that came with the PSC 251/Ds and seriously thought about replacing them with metal but in the end I went with the ones supplied in the kit and thought they actually looked ok when painted.

I'll reserve judgement until I have one in my hand, but the mg34 looks pretty terrible in pictures.
I notice they're absent on the cardinal's.

I notice that panther D and A seem to be scheduled for release by Trumpeter 2014/15.
tieba.baidu.com/p/2804557302

Mr Eriksson's review has a very good closeup shot of that PSC Panther MG. He provided the link above but here it is again:

link

After seeing this I think I might be building mine without the cupola mount… :o)

You might have thought getting the mg34 and mg42 right is relatively important seeing as how it's used by infantry as well as tanks.