"Battlefront has nothing to sell any more." Topic

I don't understand. They have been (are) listing new products. Looks like they removed the list at the bottom showing upcoming release dates.

These definitely look new

link

And the plastic Pz IV H

Well, I could use some 1/100th scale M-114 scout vehicles, though I'd prefer them in metal.

If pressed, I guess resin, or plastic would do.

Reasonably priced M60A1 and T-62 platoons would be appreciated too.

Whats going to happen to Dust?

I don't think Dust can save Battle Front.

Coabeous

Not sure what you mean. I just checked the online store and everything looks normal. What don't they have in stock?

Nonsense. I've just checked the website and tried out an order; everything working as normal. Sounds like a bit of speculative panic mongering going on here.

From what I have seen in the last few months BF has some very serious issues to overcome. Their supply problems, communications issues (or lack thereof), and ventures into different genres doesn't sound like a company that has its future survival planned.

In the past they have at least told their customers something to placate the worries that were expressed on their website. I just hope Steven has plans in place in case he has to move back to the states.

Charles M.

"doesn't sound like a company that has its future survival planned."

I would lay a bet they are actually one of the few minatures companies who do actually have a proper business plan!

…..so…….maybe BF spent too much money on Dust and has no money to restock FOW…

Why is there an asumption that BF paid money? BF does not own Dust Minatures, they are a partner with them like FFG was previously.

Maybe they've just started to keep their release schedule a bit closer to their chests, to avoid being pre-empted by other companies who cannibalise their sales without supporting the game?

"cannibalise their sales without supporting the game?"

Eh?

Other companies make 15mm WW2 models, many of which started out their ranges long before Battlefront started up. IIRC Battlefront started up by selling models for several years before Flames of War appeared in print, I bought loads of their early releases to build up forces for playing Spearhead, Rapid Fire or Crossfire, I can't recall Battlefront supporting those games systems.

Good luck to BF, they have been largely a force for good in 15mm WW2 gaming terms. But, they are just another figure company and rule set, nothing more.

Yes, there are a lot of companies that have been making 15mm scale models for years, and I can't imagine anyone having a problem with them. However, there are also other firms that have since created 15mm ranges seemingly to capitalise on the success of Flames of War. You can't fault Battlefront for not wanting to give such companies a head start, much the same way GW keep their releases under wraps as much as possible to stop others bringing their own versions to market before them.

They have priced themselves right out of my market, so any new product besides books is a sick joke as far as I am concerned.

Rush likes to point to the idiocy of the New York subway system. When the money coming in goes down, they raise their fares. They are now reaping the fruits of that idiotic system. Perhaps the mindset of thinking themselves a monopoly with the "most played" WW2 game on the market (a debatable assumption) lead to this. You can see how well the "you may only use OUR figures in a tournament" policy worked out.
Aren't things produced in Asia supposed to be … cheap?

As for cannibalizing… Most companies just say "Oh, yeah. We already make them." I sniff a bit of "ritual purity, thou shalt not criticize" here.

"However, there are also other firms that have since created 15mm ranges seemingly to capitalise on the success of Flames of War."

But can you name one who doesnt actually sell a game system?

Can you name one who only does ww2?

Can you name one who only do 15mm?

Battlefront may have given successor companies a boost, but Command decision gave BF coat tails to ride their range on when they started.

I would seriously doubt any of these companies have more fractions of their ranges sold for Fow than battlefront themselves do.

Kyotebluer,
Mate your email is VERY irresponsible. My LGS gets an order from Battlefront every week. I was there last night. Maybe just maybe its an issue with your LGS.
You claim to hate all things Battlefront yet your the first person to jump when something is different. So maybe your still in the closet a bit?
And as for OFM. Battlefront does not market to us Old Guard Wargamesrs. Get over it. Your zillion posts a day are so tedious.
One mans opinion…
Dennis

No I really think that Battlefront owe a huge vote of thanks to Skytrex, Peter Pig and even SDD for making 15mm WW2 viable in the first place. The worm has turned a bit now so I can see a little where they might be coming from but ultimately I suspect a high proportion of BF product is sold to non-FOW players and like wise lots of other companies products end up on FOW battlefields. Can't see any problem myself and I doubt if BF are ever going to vet their customers and refuse to sell if they are going to be used for PBI/Rapid Fire or whatever.

If BF wanted an exclusive product they should have opted to do WW2 in a unique 13mm scale or something.

There again if keeping news of future releases secret is what they are intending I don't see anything wrong there either. I suspect others do that too. However it can be counter-productive- I rather fancy using the new "pointy hat" Soviets for a Bolt Action project in 15mm. I am tempted but as there is no known release date (or even if they are going to make them) for HMG's, and gun crews etc.. I'll just wait.

Your zillion posts a day are so tedious.

Good Heavens! I never knew!

I agree with the premise. In the past year I have had several supply problems with Battlefront. The first was when I bought a tank I needed for a tournament which was coming up in a few months. The tank was missing a part. I contacted customer service and they were willing to replace it, but did not have the part in the US. Bottom line is that it took them three months, well until AFTER the tournament for me to receive the part. I was forced to buy another blister which I was lucky to find online.

My second problem was ordering T-54 tanks last October. I need seven boxes of them and placed my order. None present in the US, no one has more than a box or two anyway so waiting for a US resupply. I have been in contact with Battlefront and they assured me that the ship containing them left for the US on February 21st but I have no idea if I will have them for April. And the rest of the army is done.

My final issue is an emergent need for Panzer IIINs. I need five of them. Most retailers have one or two but buying from multiple dealers will kill on shipping. I did order from one of my favorite stores online but then heard yesterday that they only had one and would have to backorder the others. I have no trust in battlefront to have a supply chain that works and don't want to lose the time waiting for a month to find out I wont get them and so ordered from another manufacturer.

As long as I was at it, I ordered a T-55 tank as a sample too. I really like the look of the Battlefront tanks but if I cant buy them what does it matter?

Look – toy retail has changed in the US. No store can keep figure ranges in stock, so the model has developed into keeping some in stock for impulse buys and advertisement and relying on larger orders being shipped from the distributor. This model works very well as long as the distributor is well stocked. But the Battlefront supply chain has collapsed for whatever reason and I am tired of "buying" vaporware figures. Which is a pity, I have money to spend and like their product.

Wargaming in general has become exceedingly expensive. When you couple the much higher prices with a premium brand like Battlefront or GW, you have to wonder if sales can really sustain the business.

Mate your email is VERY irresponsible.

I think he was being rhetorical. I'm certain BF is doing fine. Even if he isn't, how is posting his opinion irresponsible?

Just had an email from a supplier I use refunding my money for US halftracks as they aren't in stock and BF can't tell him when they will be. Something begins to smell fishy.

Mate your email is VERY irresponsible.

I think he was being rhetorical. I'm certain BF is doing fine. Even if he isn't, how is posting his opinion irresponsible?

Kyotebluer than blue and I are far from "haters". We both play and enjoy the GAME. Kyote likes the figures, me not so much.

HOWEVER, even though we are not "haters" in the strictest sense of the word, out love is not sufficiently pure and demonstrative. It lacks vigor and is sometimes … questioning.

Battlefront stock levels seem to be a bit on the patchy side at the moment.

I had a small prize which was in the form of BF credit and the first order I sent to BF was 100% out of stock. I changed the order and the second one was supplied.

At the UK Masters I wanted to pick up a load of plastic T-34s as well as a couple of boxes of the new SUs. I was able to get the SUs but the T-34s were out of stock and I only got them them a couple of weeks later.

I am not sure why they seem to have poor stock levels but it seems that it is happening to quite a few customers at the moment.

Do I think BF are going out of business, no. Is supply a problem definitely.

Once PSC goes to 4th gen and the tanks are one piece tracks…Battlefront will truly be under the gun.

Sorry, but PSC is better priced for the wargamer of the 21st century who has rising living costs, and loads of other on his plate.

Oh, and their stuff is in supply.

Look I get it, Battlefront has a huge range…which is a catch 22. Sure I can get a Pak 40 on a half track from them, but the question is now, is it in stock, if not, when, if not when it's "soon".

They went too far, too fast, and they embark on new projects when they can't keep production numbers up. It stinks of the Luftwaffe.

"Hey yeah Adolf we lost a bunch of planes in Britain…we need time to rest."

"Hey lets go invade Russia!"

HOWEVER, even though we are not "haters" in the strictest sense of the word, out love is not sufficiently pure and demonstrative. It lacks vigor and is sometimes … questioning.

Ahhh – I understand now. The gaming version of the love that dare not speak its name.

Something begins to smell fishy.

Or of scampi.

Forged in Battle? And while they may have other scaled ranges, does anyone truly believe Plastic Soldier Company would have made a 15mm range without the existence of Flames of War?

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with other companies doing 15mm WW2 – that would be patently ludicrous – but when a company with a long supply chain like Battlefront relies on sales of its entire range to fund further development of its business, surely they can't be faulted for not disclosing their future plans to more agile companies, who may be able to capitalise on a new demand and maybe get the potentially more profitable parts of a range to market first.

(Apologies if my reply seems terribly out of context – I started typing it a lot earlier, but work got in the way…)

forged in battle did 15mm ww2 as their second range after their ships…and a lot of it is 1946 orientated…hardly BF territory…..and Sculpted by the guy who did the command decisions ranges, not someone you can charge with 'cashing in' Their big thing now is 15mm ancients…Hardly 'seemingly to capitalise'

PSC did 20mm right from the start and sell a rule set aimed at 15mm and 20mm. They have products they do in 20mm they haven't done as 15's yet. 15's are popular…they have been since well before BF, but still not as popular as 20mm. PSC are wise enough to know that their medium is scalable and broad enough to appeal to all….from kit converters to cheapskate gamers to parents buying 'toys' for 10 year olds. It also stacks well in the plastic kit shelves of model shops, just like zvenda.

Rapid fire and Command decision were the rules that popularised the scale, not FOW, as it was the Johnny come lately.

PSC's first infantry set is available in 3 scales, but 28mm never took off, so they direct their energies into the scales that did.

The real truth of the matter is that battlefront had the slickest advertising and product placement in the wargames industry outside GW. This flies in the face of all they have done in the past. People may also not be considering what the impact the recent social unrest in Malaysia may have had on production and shipping.

I think PSC would have got going just fine if BF never existed. They are just part of the plastics revolution. Note they do 1:72nd and 1:48th scales also so it's not all just about FoW catering. Indeed, they even have thier own rules set!

I would lay a bet they are actually one of the few minatures companies who do actually have a proper business plan!

I'd think so, too.

BF at least seems to still have hobbyists in addition to cutthroat business types (see the experiment with Flames of Vietnam that started out as a WI exclusive, and continued on with the Arab-Israeli Wars).

People may also not be considering what the impact the recent social unrest in Malaysia may have had on production and shipping.

That sounds extremely likely!

I think the supply problems that have always been there (and maybe growing worse as they expand) have been joined by a production problem. The Malaysian factory had the tiem to make rivers unknow to BFHQ but not to make the new stock – or maybe it is a materials or packaging shortage who knows, but BF made it clear there are major delays here
link
so why is every one surprised?
I am not exactly know as a fan of BF management but they gave notice and then got on with business, keeping the issues confidential – which is their right.
Not having enough stock for customers on a long term basis when you have competitors is a recipe for financial disaster as I am sure the BF management must know as whatever else they may be they are not stupid. However, they seem unable to correct the problem over the last 3 or 4 years so one can only wish them the best in their endevours. It is a free market and the days of getting by on customer goodwill alone are over.

I found Steve Roper's post above to be spot on.

I recently ordered German half-tracks from BF. After over three weeks of not receiving any half-tracks or communications from BF, I email their Customer Service desk and after a week got a response that the German half-tracks are not in stock and will be 6-8 weeks. I cancelled the order and bought PSC German half-tracks.

Another issue I have is not getting a part that is missing from blister pack US161 (one of the gunner figures is missing). I buy BF products because I like their products and pay the premium price for the BF reputation of responsive customer service, standing behind their products, and replacing parts that are missing. Sadly, it now seems that BF customer service is lacking also. No timely responses and in the case of the missing part, it's been over two weeks and two follow-up emails from me, but still not response at all since getting the auto email with the Customer Tracking Number.

These are classic symptoms of a company in trouble. I wish them the best.

See there you go Steven at BF has just said there are no updates unless they are sure of release dates – also trying to catch up on production to fill orders – welcome news for retailers.

Here's the statement from Battlefront: In full.

Hi guys, if you remember a few weeks back, we made the commitment that we would not post any dates we weren't 99% sure of. Obviously, we're still playing catchup from the events described in my previous posts on the frontpage, but you can rest assured that things are looking up. This is not symptomatic of anything more serious, and Battlefront is not in any trouble (certainly not as some people have speculated here and elsewhere, in danger of going bankrupt!). Our factory has been focusing on meeting existing orders, and so some new releases have been pushed back. It's a frustrating process for everyone – the customers AND us. We look forward to getting all caught up – and staying caught up – but please bear with us as we get everything sorted. In a spot of good news, the new Plastic Panzer IV H, and the Italy comps are right on time, and just about ready to hit your tabletop! I'm sorry I haven't been on the forum much, but we've been keeping busy with our various projects; it's an exciting and challenging time in the Battlefront studio!

I think some people here are speculating without firm evidence and using anecdotal evidence. This is how a run on a bank starts. Not only that, Kyoterblue, you claim they have not announced a new release and yet, as you can see above, they clearly have but not set a date. Your facts are incomplete and you're selective with them as well.

Real Soon Now

Christmas ;)

I ordered from their site a couple of months ago and got one individual gun out of a £50.00 GBP order (£3.50's worth) and the rest saying Back ordered, I've also got an outstanding £75.00 GBP order with my LGS and nothing from them (but at least they have the hassle of chasing them up) I am determined to wait, I think. I don't even play FoW, and have bought some hilariously deformed models from them in the past, but have never had a problem with the UK side of returns.

And from those that I know it was the expenditure of buying into Dust that has caused what is hopefully only a hiccup.

Thank God I buy most of my stuff at shows….. where it is all in stock… usually…..

I would not be surprised if Battlefront are putting a lot of effort into producing more plastics behind the scenes. They know that PSC and others are successfully competing with them and that plastics offer better value for gamers.

Battlefront's Open Fire set proves that they can produce very good plastic infantry, I know the tanks in the set are a pain to assemble but Battlefront know this and will no doubt use it to improve their plastic ranges.

The competition is a good thing for gamers and we will probably see more and better products in the near future from a lot of the 15mm companies.

Major Tom has a very valid point…. they could be retooling for plastics… as we can see, they have been and seem to be going that way.

Competition is healthy….

All the plastic tanks post open fire I have put together have been VERY easy and very well fitting builds. You can definitely tell that they've gotten better with the plastics.

40% off their vietnam range!!……that seems, well, odd to say the very least.

Thematic plastic sets would be fun for different periods, fronts, etc.

BF do have a serious supply problem!

For at least a year now we have only been receiving about 50% of what we order and over the last couple of months that has gone down to around 25% of what we order.

This has caused us major problems and BF must have lost a lot of money as well and as far as I can see there is no sign of any improvement.

Yes your customers can read about the shiny new toys in WI but you cannot get any to sell them ……clever indeed