"Dark Age is "strongly supported" by New Wave" Topic

Right?

Unless they had a recent falling out in the last few months...

I am not sure 100% of the relationship but from the communications I've had...the ties "were" close. They might not be anymore. As I recall...New Wave was the first to have the minis...

Gah...I just did a whois on the domain and look where Dark Age is:

Dark Age Games
5665 Hwy 9, Suite 103-272
Alpharetta, Georgia 30004
United States

Funny....I've been there. It's New Wave's warehouse.

LOL!

:)

BME

I thought we went through this before already?

If we did Kai...I was absent that day...sorry.

I must have missed it, too.

Huh. Uh...maybe I'll order from another dealer...

From what I have been told recently, David (call me Lucifer) Doust is no longer involved with Dark Age.

They are strongly supported because Dave Doust owns most of Dark Age. How many times have I said this and people just say, "Nuh-uh."? Anyone that used to work there in the beginning actually received their paychecks from Doust, not the company. And I don't think Dave sold any of his shares. I would be more inclined to believe he let this rumor out himself so that it would stop tarnishing the company.

Can't blame him, with New Wave's bad reputation... One of the things that keeps me from ordering directly from the Dark Age webstore is the Dave Doust/New Wave link. Maybe it works fine & you actually get what you pay for, but rather than try it out I buy my Dark Age from distributors.

I've ordered from both "Dark Age" and "New Wave" and never had a problem. A couple of times I had missing/damaged parts. A quick couple of e-mails to "Dark Age" and I got replacements in a few days.

Tim

To quickly answer your question Warlok, the amount of time you've said this is a 'lot', however to my knowledge nobody has said 'nuh uh'. I believe the most common response was 'So what?'. It was certainly mine.

Every single company on New Waves pages is 'strongly supported' by New Wave as they sell New Wave their goods and take New Waves cash. Why are you not jumping into 'every' thead about those companies too?

One of the owners of New Wave supposedly invests in a new company, which is going great guns and has an excellent customer service record and that's a bad thing? How, exactly?
If he owned stock in a factory that sent milk to children in Africa should we burn it down or something?

Dave Doust IS Dark Age gang...lol.

So...

Stop try`n to kill the man, he sucks azz, and if you buy from him be ready to get screwed...but he is just a poor biz man, he does not deserve to be hung everywhere.

It`s old news people...lets talk about fun stuff instead.

Just don`t buy from the butt head...and it will all fade away.

:)

BME

Like... Soldat? Or the greens for your new horror game? :-P

Sorry, that wasn't very nice of me. Won't happen again.

I've had a bad experience with New Wave the one & only time I bought from them. I've also bought something from Dave Doust on e-bay (didn't know about his connection to New Wave), and that went fine. Maybe the TMp'ers who've ordered directly from the Dark Age online store can reassure us?

"...but he is just a poor biz man, he does not deserve to be hung everywhere."

Actually, if even 1/4 of the stories you hear are true, he absolutely does.

"Maybe the TMp'ers who've ordered directly from the Dark Age online store can reassure us?"

Go look in their forum? I can assure you that threads don't get deleted or any other nefarious practises.

Out of interest though aren't you in the UK? Why would you be ordering from a states store?

LOL...damn Andy.

I have talked to Dave, and I know people that know him well.

The guy is rather nice...but he is just a rotten biz type.

Like I said, do not kill the guy, just know that he is BAD at running his company, and do NOT buy directly from him.

Easy...

My very good pal, Dave Rogers was approached recently by Doust to do the new cover for Dark Ages first rulebook they are trying to get ready to produce.

Dave Rogers is the man behind the first (and only) CMON annual. He did that book for them on good faith, and he never received a damn dime for his work, so when Dave Doust contacted him again, to make the cover for The Dark Ages rulebook ...Dave Rogers laughed it off.

...and now the Dark Age Rule Book...is still not ready to be published.

See how easy it works?

;)

What is Soldat btw...I never even heard of IT!

Ask DAVE KUFNER about it...

;)

BME

rotorvator

"Like... Soldat? Or the greens for your new horror game? :-P

Sorry, that wasn't very nice of me. Won't happen again."

What the hell was that for?

...so what are you try`n to say here guy?

:)

BME

This takes on shades of "conspiracy theory" here.

Dark Age = New Wave = David Doust = Lord Bunny = Trilateral Commisssion = Antichrist

I had troubles with New Wave orders and stopped buying from them years ago. I have also purchased items from DA online and never had a problem. Go figure.

If you want DA items, get them locally. Or eBay. If online is your only option, then be mature and contact them to make sure the items are in stock, get a shipping time, etc. Use a credit card and is there's problems, dispute the charge and get a refund.

"...and now the Dark Age Rule Book...is still not ready to be published."

I can't dispute the other things you said because I wasn't involved so have no way of knowing if it was true or not but the rulebook being not ready for publication has nothing to do with the cover and is misleading as it's not scheduled to be ready for publication yet.

Of all the people to throw a 'not quite ready to be released yet' stone I think you should probably be the last person to attempt it.

Yeah ...yeah...what about you BME?

Blah, so I talked about Soldat here...and?

The game is not mine, it won`t come out until Kufner takes care of his issues...period.

I am doing my own thing now.

Hell, "I" am even going to pay my people for their work.

LOL!

BME

That wasn't the point at all. You made a post trying to imply a link between some frined of yours allegedly not getting paid by one company and a rulebook not being published by another company.

The link doesn't exist. That's the point.

UhOh..."A Fight'!

Hot Damn!

I been too nice of late!

GRRR!!!

Now I`m gonna let you have it!

BOOM!

Uhh...nah, all I am saying is that Dave Rogers DID do the CMON book, look at the credits baby boy.

He did NOT get paid for his work, and Doust had the to try to get Dave Rogers to do a cover for the Dark Age book, this was just last month in fact.

:)

I may be wrong as to the cover being the reason that the book is not ready for release.

I assumed here, Oops.

Now we both look like dummies don`t we...why can`t we be happy happy.

I`ll be nice if you will.

:)

LOL!!!

BME

I must have missed something. Why do we 'both' look like dummies because 'you' were wrong?

I also don't have a CMON annual near me but if I did I doubt the credits say "Dave Rogers - Was not paid" so I'm not going to bother hunting one down as it'll prove nothing except that he did it, which was not at issue.

Let's all be nice & not spread rumours unless they can be backed up.

"WE" look dumb...

... becuase you are defending a thief...and his game.

...and I am argueing with you about it.

I go and sculpt now...

:)

BME

When you post proof of Dark Age stealing from anyone then feel free to regain some credibility.

Perhaps if you spent more time sculpting and less time trying to run down other companies who have actual product?

Ouch!

There is a difference between supporting a company and financing a company.

I'm not going to argue this point but there IS validity behind this claim. And I, for one, like to know where my money is heading. For example, when I attend a concert in my area, I refused to attend certain venues, due to the fact that I do not support Clear Channel. I will not listen to certain radio stations.

I do not blame people for not wanting to advocate using New wave. I wouldn't. And I don't see why it's a bad thing leting other people know who they are supporting. If I were to involve myself in Dark Age, and to find out later who I was supporting, I would feel dirty. Kinda like a vegan buying his groceries from a slaughterhouse.

This is one of the reasons I won't buy UM. It's my personal boycott, and it's my right to let people know who ask why I don't support them.

ARTEIMIS: [You made a post trying to imply a link between some frined of yours allegedly not getting paid by one company and a rulebook not being published by another company. The link doesn't exist. That's the point.]

BME: [Doust had the to try to get Dave Rogers to do a cover for the Dark Age book]

Doust appears to be taking an active role in both companies, if he's the one arranging cover art for the Dark Age book.

BME: [Dave Rogers is the man behind the first (and only) CMON annual. He did that book for them on good faith, and he never received a damn dime for his work ... He did NOT get paid for his work ...]

If Rogers volunteered to do the work, and didn't have an agreement with Doust to be paid for it (which is what I think you're saying), and then didn't get paid for his work...that doesn't make Doust a thief, does it?

Bill Babe...nope, it just makes Dave Rogers a wiser man.

LOL!

My Vampire Sculpt is in the cureing oven now...but I have another in progress sculpt (for Iron Wind Metals "Spell Caster" line up) that I could be working on while the Vamp Baby Babe Girl is setting up for the next stage of fresh green... so I best go and get back to work.

What am I do`n read`n this crap for anyhow?!

LOL!

...ah to hell with it, believe what you want to...I`m going to go back to my sculpting desk now.

;)

BME

"There is a difference between supporting a company and financing a company."

Not a particularly large one. Both mean that one company is giving another company money.

If New Wave invested in Dark Age at the start then all that means is they gave them money. If New Wave sell Warmachine items then all that means is they give Privateer Press money. If we had records indicating that New Wave have given Privateer Press 'more' money than they have given Dark Age do we switch to shouting about it from the rooftops whenever a Warmachine announcement is put up?

It's just pointless. I haven't seen a single complaint about Dark Age. Quite frankly as long as that's the case I don't care if the sculptors live in an appartment owned by New Wave and use sculpting tools with the words NEW WAVE stenciled into the side. Because it doesn't make the slightest bit of 'real' difference to anyone. If you follow an investor around and harass the people he's investing with you just hurt 'them' not 'him.

"Bill Babe...nope, it just makes Dave Rogers a wiser man."

So you claimed I was defending a 'thief' based on someone not getting paid for something he hadn't arranged payment for? Last I checked that was libellous. Calling someone a liar will get you 'dawghoused' but defaming a companies character based on not only hearsay but hearsay that didn't use any definition of the word 'thief' I know, is fine?

"Not a particularly large one. Both mean that one company is giving another company money.

If New Wave invested in Dark Age at the start then all that means is they gave them money. If New Wave sell Warmachine items then all that means is they give Privateer Press money. If we had records indicating that New Wave have given Privateer Press 'more' money than they have given Dark Age do we switch to shouting about it from the rooftops whenever a Warmachine announcement is put up?"

Let me put it this way. Newwave isn't going to spend its own money to buy it's own product. If I own company A, and I sign the checks to company B, you better believe that I'm getting those products at cost; not at the 50 or so mark-up that I sell to retailers at.

It's a whole different ballpark. Not to mention that you have pull. I don't care how much Warmachine Newwave sells, I don't expect to see Newwave telling PPS how to run their company, what designs to use, and how they want to market their products based on the fact that they give them money. On the other hand, when the company that signs your checks doesn't like the way you do something ...

Now, If you cannot play nice, you will have to go to the time out room.

"Not a particularly large one. Both mean that one company is giving another company money.

If New Wave invested in Dark Age at the start then all that means is they gave them money. If New Wave sell Warmachine items then all that means is they give Privateer Press money. If we had records indicating that New Wave have given Privateer Press 'more' money than they have given Dark Age do we switch to shouting about it from the rooftops whenever a Warmachine announcement is put up?"

Let me put it this way. Newwave isn't going to spend its own money to buy it's own product. If I own company A, and I sign the checks to company B, you better believe that I'm getting those products at cost; not at the 50 or so mark-up that I sell to retailers at.

It's a whole different ballpark. Not to mention that you have pull. I don't care how much Warmachine Newwave sells, I don't expect to see Newwave telling PPS how to run their company, what designs to use, and how they want to market their products based on the fact that they give them money. On the other hand, when the company that signs your checks doesn't like the way you do something ...

sorry bout the double post

@yourhero

I'm not certain what difference any of that makes to the subject at hand? I understoof what you meant in the first place, I just didn't see how it was relevant.

What actual difference to consumers does it make if New Wave are giving Dark Age more money or have more pull with them than Privateer? Or if Dark Age give New Wave preferential rates (a claim with no evidence I might add)? They obviously do give Privateer (and many many other companies) significant amounts of money, maybe some of the smaller companies they have given money to would have folded without their input of cash? Things are tight these days, could easily be the case. Where are the "Bobby Jackosn = New Wave" threads?

The point is if you only follow the money then you end up badmouthing 'everyone'. You don't want to buy from New Wave, don't. Feel free to repeaten proven stories etc. but don't go following investments etc and badmouthing those companies too, that's just ridiculous.

When PPS profits, Doust doesn't. The only thing he is getting in return is the 40% markup, and thats only through the sale of his web site.

When Dark age profits, Doust DOES make money. No matter the seller. No matter the markup (50% distros, 65% retailers, 100% to customers). You're putting money in his pocket, your letting the atrosity which is Newwave to continue.

And let me make this clear. Besides the self produced figures from Newwave (I'm not sure were bobby jackson gets his mold making/casting done at), to most manufactures they are treated as any old retailer. A retail with a bad rep, bad service, and more hastle than help (Don't believe me? How many people have not recieved product from Newwave, and got a reply along the lines of 'the manufacture didn't send us the product yet.' and upon contact of the manufacture, they inform you they havn't RECIEVED an order from new wave yet ... I'd be mightyed if I was selling to these guys and had to deal with THEIR angry customers). The fact is, the industry would be better without them. Anything that helps David keep going (CMON, Dark age, etc), keeps New wave and their bad buisness practices going.

Blah, I'm done with this conversation. I won't support anything that man touches, and I'm sure there is plenty of people that agree with me.

You seem to keep missing the point. When PPS profits, some of it is 'from' New Wave. Because all those companies took New Waves money and continue to take it.

You buy a Dark Age figure from a retailer in swazilandand he makes a few pence? So what, you think that'll keep New Wave up and running? However the few pence 'might' keep the retailer in swaziland running and the buy gets their stuff promptly. Everyone involved in the transaction is happy - except you, and Warlok, who aren't involved.

If the guy invents a cure for cancer would you let your wife/mother/son die before using it? Of course not, it's all a matter of degrees. The further you go away from New Wave the more pointless and more damaging to 'other people' it becomes. One of them, btw, is me - which is why we're having this discussion.

"You seem to keep missing the point. When PPS profits, some of it is 'from' New Wave. Because all those companies took New Waves money and continue to take it."

I understand this. I just want you to understand that to them(PPS) and everyone else they are just another retailer. To Dark Age, it's the guy signing your check, not to mention where a good portion of your money goes to (doust's pocket). To say that there is not a difference to new wave between sales of Warmachine and sales of Dark Age is preposterous and stupid.

"You buy a Dark Age figure from a retailer in swazilandand he makes a few pence? So what, you think that'll keep New Wave up and running?"

Few pence? Are you kidding me? Not saying that it's a money market; but not as insignificant as you exaggerate it to be. And when your main source of income (Newwave) does a poor job and people stop buying from them you better have something solid and disconnected to fall back on.

"However the few pence 'might' keep the retailer in swaziland running and the buy gets their stuff promptly. Everyone involved in the transaction is happy - except you, and Warlok, who aren't involved.

If the guy invents a cure for cancer would you let your wife/mother/son die before using it? Of course not, it's all a matter of degrees. The further you go away from New Wave the more pointless and more damaging to 'other people' it becomes. One of them, btw, is me - which is why we're having this discussion."

So me talking bad on Doust hurts you.

Unfortunately, this is a public forum where I am allowed express my opinion of a man who owns a company that has done a great disservice to this industry.

Agreed on the degrees of indirect investments, but there are not as far apart as it seems.

Don't hurt yourself when you fall off of that soapbox, pal! Sheesh, lighten up!

"I understand this. I just want you to understand that to them(PPS) and everyone else they are just another retailer. To Dark Age, it's the guy signing your check, not to mention where a good portion of your money goes to (doust's pocket). To say that there is not a difference to new wave between sales of Warmachine and sales of Dark Age is preposterous and stupid."

And again... I didn't say it was no difference to New Wave, I said there was no difference to the customer.

Let's take the extreme example here. Everyone boycotts Dark Age. Do you honestly think that will hurt an investor or New Wave? You think that after being 'boycotted' they'll merrily sell off the assets of their business and pay all debtors? Or will it, by any chance, be everyone else who gets screwed - people who worked for Dark Age and now aren't going to get paid because some idiot organised a boycott of the people paying their wages, sculptors, artists, painters, general wageslaves and so on.

What about the retailers with hundred or thousands of pounds worth of Dark Age stock. Hey, why not sell it at a ridiculously reduced price, make no money and go out of business, I mean at least then 'you' can sleep at night, right?

Which part of any of this hurts New Wave or an investor? - they'll be the very first people to get their money back, will invest it elsewhere and go about their day.

You want to display some righteous wargaming fury at the injustice of not getting your tin fix, wear a badge that says 'Boycott New Wave', don't take money out of other people's pockets to make yourself feel better.

@yourhero: It sounds like sour grapes on your part. Like you want to get the DA minis, but you've been burned by New Wave before and don't want to risk your money. That's understandable, but you have taken it to an unhealthy extreme. If you don't want to risk your money you should only buy the minis from a trusted source, which New Wave is not considered by at least 80% of the people on this forum. Buy it from either a FLGS or a trusted online retailer such as WarStore or Fantization in the US or Artemis Black's in the UK.

But you might just as well get off your high horse. You're not convincing anyone here. After reading through this thread, I see you keep reiterating your arguments, and there are a number of different people disagreeing with you.
In philosophy, it's called question begging. You ask the same question but rephrase it so it sounds like a different question. It all adds up the same way. Same argument, same question, same answer. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Um, oink, oink? 8)=

Make your choices pro or con for New Wave. My point is that they are essentially one in the same. It explains why the Asian chap at New Wave asked me not to mention his name directly on the Dark Age boards. They didn't want an official tie in. It all came together when I found the street address to be the same.

to make things clear:

yes i did the cmon annual along with chern as editor. period.
link
although on my page it says chern owns cmon which is incorrect. im just too lazy to fx it :)

i also made cmon desktops which are hosted at my site here:
link

i also made the cmon logo by winning the cool mini or not logo contest

i was going to help peice together the dark age cover with broms art but i did not feel that i had all the info i needed to start (like book cover size) and instead of waiting around to get pertnent information and doing things several times over i decided screw it, i have pressing business of my own. as far as i know, ive seen the full dark age game pdf and it looks like its ready for print. over 100 pages and all.

as for dark age, it seems like a finely sculpted niche game. i have never heard anything bad in regards to dark ages products or shipping. when talking to doust he seemed very into the game and genuinely enthused. as to who owns how much of dark age, i dont know and dont care. its a good face and good company. if you dont like newwave then get darkage elsewhere. if you dont like someone behind dark age, who cares. as long as it doesnt effect the companies standards and level of commitment then it doesnt matter.

as for getting paid on the cmon book, no i did not get paid. (i did get free books) no i wasnt expecting to get paid. and overall getting paid on the 1st book wouldnt be overly practical either. the 1st book took a very large investment to start. also the profits from the 1st book would have to cover producing the 2nd book. there is always very little money from a 1st wave of product when investment is involved as it needs to be paid back. now the 2nd book would have made a reasonable amount of profit and i would have liked to work on it but due to life at home i am way to busy and cannot pursue any major free endeavors anymore as fun as they are (and the cmon book was smokin cool when finished)

as for new wave and dousts practices, while i dont agree with the new wave policies and stuff, its business. if you dont like it, dont buy. cmon and dark age seem to be run very good and hell, 2 out of 3 aint bad. doust is involved with dark age and cmon to reasonable degress and both of those endeavors are very cool. if you dont like new waves policies then thats cool but from what ive seen cmon and dark age are top notch so i have no problem supporting them if they have what i want. doust is proven to be dependable when others are involved in a project and as long as those other projects dont build up a "new wave" customer reputation then i see no problem in supporting those endeavors.

regards.
D.