"Good 1:1 ruleset for 6mm - 1/300? " Topic

Hi all

I have just acquired two fine sets of micro armour forces (1944 British and German ideal for France 44) and are now looking for a suitable ruleset. As this is a new genre for me i am somewhat in the dark.

i am looking for something that is (ideally):

- 1:1 – 1 tank = 1 Tank and one troop stand = one squad ect.
- encourages realistic tactics = Awards players who utilizes realistic tactics for deployment, fire and movement ect. (E.I not FoW).
- has a "OK" representational depth but is not too rules heavy.
- Has some representation of command and control issues.
- Would be suitable for engagements in the size of 0-5 tanks, some support weapons and say 5-20 troop stands per side.

Micro Squads? Mein Panzer ? what would work here? Help appreaciated.

Best Svend

I'll give my standard recommendations that fit the criteria of what you are asking about and where to find more info.

IABSM from Too Fat Lardies. Youtube videos showing the gameplay, and google up the toofatlardies website and discussion board.

Fireball Forward. Google up fireball forward rules, They have some videos showing the game in action and there is a starter set showing how the infantry rules work online.

Both sets above also have facebook pages. They are also written primarily with 15mm in mind BUT if using 6mm figs instead the ground scale is a near exact match for the figure scale.

Finally there is Schwere Kompanie, more chart intensive then the other two sets but written specifically for micro armor and not TOO detailed (for me at any rate). This set also has a lite version that you can download and play to see how you like it.

Without a doubt Panzer War is one to check out. It's the best researched one I've run across. I think Tank-Tank warfare is like a Wild West shootout. There is the quick and the dead. Historically a tank could make more than one kill in 30 seconds, Panzer War reflects that in a realistic and playable way.

panzer-war.com

Oh, it's free too.

Wolfahg

{shameless plug alert}

Mein Panzer was developed for tank skirmish, 1:1 battles in 6mm micro. It offers a balance mix of playability and realism. The first 14 pages will have you on the battlefield and hunting the enemy! Additionally if you wish to expand to a fuller wargame experiance you can "Drop-In" the chapters on Artillery, Infantry, Engineer, Command/Moral, Aircraft, and more.

The down side – It's not free. But once registered on ODGW web site all future updates and revisions are free to download!

The core rules are enough to get you started and depending on the period, you can expand with our databooks ranging from WWI thru Korea.

Come by our game room at Cold Wars and we can teach you the rules in a brief 10 min shot or play in one of our event games… Give it a try!

Thanks --Kenny

{Shameless plug over}

+1 for IABSM, about a (infantry) company plus supports per side, often a few tanks. I'm doing it in 6mm.

Mark Luther has many several AARs using I Ain't Been Shot Mum in 6mm on his Flickr page. Here's a link to an Operation Epsom game.

*Warning: Beautiful games ahead that will make you want to melt your troops and burn your terrain in despair.

link

Angriff!

Get a cheap second hand copy of Rapid Fire and ignore the figure/vehicle ratios, they represent companies
and troops/platoons of vehicles but I use it as section/squad and individual vehicle…….simple rules yet playable and fun without being too 'rivet counter' in style.
My other rules are Combined Arms from TTG-sadly long out of print, and Force on Force from Osprey…….
A really simple yet fun game can be had with 'two page' rules from
panzer8.weebly.com/rules.html

And there may be some more of interest here
link

I just got (today) a copy of Britton Publishers Micro Melee these are 1:1 ground scale. suggest 4 figs on a base for a squad and 2 or 3 figures for HQ or crew.

They are detailed. The tanks have 3 turret , 4 hull and 1 top armour ratings. They have tables for ranges (convrting yards to cm's) for 6mm, 10mm, 12mm 15mm.

I also have the Battle of Prokhhorovka scenario book.

I got these as change from Bolt Action for my 10mm figures.

There is a video on they site and sample scenario.
link

I have played a few games of BattleGroup Kursk using the 20mm ranges and move etc, but for 6mm. It works well:

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Tally Ho!

For battalion-sized engagements I recommend Mein Panzer. The best rules for company-sized actions is Micro Melee.

1/300 is very small for realistic tactics. I have played MG at this scale but real terrain is quite fiddley at this scale and if you mean realistic you may need to turn a turret to represent real formations.

Rules – Maneouver Group- about a re-enforced company with supports is around that sort of figure base size. Say an armoured company tanks and somebodies half tracks, a few armoured cars, anti tank guns and an an FOA and you are there.

Not sure at that scale but have a look.

link

Load up the free stuff to get a flavour.

This goes back to the mid 1970s. But MICROTANK WARFARE by Keith Robinson if you can find a copy, was a very good set of 1/300 rules which I used with my Leicester Micro Tanks. 1 tank represents 1 tank. It also covered aircraft and infantry. Also unit formations. I've still got my copy.

I like Schwere Kompanie for a company each but Mein Panzer for bigger battles. I'll be checking out Micro Melee also.

I would second the Battlegroup Normandy rules (note that you will need to buy both a mini rulebook and the Normandy campaign book).

The ranges as written in BGN are very close to 1:300 groundscale (12"=100yds), with basic rifle-fire reaching up to 30" in 10" range bands.

- 1:1 – 1 tank = 1 Tank and one troop stand = one squad ect.
BGN is normally 1:1 for both infantry and vehicles

- encourages realistic tactics = Awards players who utilizes realistic tactics for deployment, fire and movement ect. (E.I not FoW).
Having more recon elements than your opponent gives you an advantage.

- has a "OK" representational depth but is not too rules heavy.
No rolling to see where on the glacis your shot hit.

- Has some representation of command and control issues.
You have a limited number of orders you can give each turn, which varies based on number of officers and how large a force is on the table, PLUS there are random event chits in the Battle Rating pot in addition to the fading morale total.

- Would be suitable for engagements in the size of 0-5 tanks, some support weapons and say 5-20 troop stands per side.
A "company-level" game of BGN can easily handle ~20 troop stands (assuming a stand is anywhere from an HQ team up through an infantry squad or support weapon)

The only catch is that BGN does individual infantry casualties.

"The only catch is that BGN does individual infantry casualties"

I have the underside of my section bases painted white and use a lumicolour to tick of casualties,

Tally Ho!

Wow.. Thanks for all the answers.

BGN sound good as our boards has a ground scale of about 1/350 and it fits the overall parameters that i value.
Manouver group and Schwere Kompagnie sound like they could also fit the same bill.
As to IABSM2 i am a bit in doubt if i can live with the randomness of the card activation system – is like the one in Mud and Blood?

Mein Panzer looks like it is a bit too big in scale for my tastes and Fireball Forward looks too small at a glance.

Panzer war is definetely worth a look and it provides army lists. But looking at the scenarios they look a bit too large in scale (20+ tanks on each side etc. ).

No one has mentioned Micro Squad – Are they bad?

Looking at the answers i think that i am becoming aware that i am looking for a game that focuses around a company sized engagement plus some support.

Arkiegamer: As to the quality of terrain we will yield to no one :-) :

DK,
Nice terrain and convineing. More credible than most 6mm I see which is mainly flat with no obsticals.

Haha, yes, no need to yield. That's gorgeous work, sir. Absolutely stunning! Is there a blog or other website were we can see more?

I'm no expert, but I'll try to answer your IABSM3 question: Yes, it uses random card activation. I haven't read or played Through the Mud and Blood, but a couple of things temper the randomness:

1) Units can act on their platoon's card, or when activated by a Big Man, so that's two chances per turn to act.

2) Deployed units whose card didn't come up, or who didn't take other actions, can fire (but not move or spot) at the end of the turn.

Hmm.. sounds like it is the same as Mud and Blood.

I will give it a look!

As to the boards – they are modular 60x60cm boards that can fit in multiple ways. They stick together with magnets in the sides and the boards themselves are cast from expanding PU foam (the kind you use in isolating windows etc).

More pics here: TMP link

Fireball Forward – Not quite sure what you meant by "Too small" since it fits the requirements you listed. Was it the demo videos showing only 3 stands or so on the table? It can easily handle far more forces. Problems you may have with the game are how it handles terrain and it is card activation based, though not nearly to the same extent as IABSM or Through the Mud and the Blood (you use a standard card deck, red cards side A can activate a unit of their choice, black card side B, till all units are selected).

[edit] – FORGOT, I want to play at your house! That is some excellent terrain.

Drop-dead gorgeous terrain GilmoreDK!!!

Hey, we used to play lots of WRG WWII back 30+ years ago (it uses a 1 to 1 ratio for vehicles). This weekend in fact, a buddy is going to host a Cold War-era game being played with the "modern armor" version of the rules, so it'll seem like old times once again [around here]. I still think WRG played as one of the best tactical "battlefield" rulesets (not too hot – not too cold). ;)

Anyway, you can download a copy here if interested:

PDF link

Battlefront WWII? It is actually 1 vehicle = 2 vehicle scale but you could simply use the game on a 1-1 format. Each squad =1 squad or MG section or whatever. Pretty straight forward game though the designers went crazy detailed with the artillery rules. Easy enough to scale back.

Flames of War? Wildly popular set. you probably won't have trouble finding opponents with this one.

Fist full of Tows? It has WW2 data and can be had from Wargame vault in PDF. It is a bit on the expensive side for a PDF though.

Command decision 4? Don't know the complexity of that one.

CD 4 is complex, but less so than the older CD versions. But in CD one infantry stand = a platoon and 1 tank = 5 tanks while guns = 3 guns per stand.

I have to go with IABSM also. The rules are set for 1/300 scale to begin with, so realistic ranges. But it does help to have a sense of tactics and appreciation of how actual combat comes off. Your super men will not do as well as you like. People that play it for the first time who have read some small unit reports(or been in actual ground pounding employment) enjoy the friction aspect. Best set of tactical company sized WWII rules I've games with in 40 plus years.

Squad Leader in Miniature would also fit the bill perfectly.

Battlefront WW2 is close to what is wanted (and a very good rule set), but 1 model vehicle = 2 or 3 actual vehicles, not 1:1. It can handle up to a battalion a side.

IABSM works fine for up to a company a side; it's slow if you play larger games.

Ok.. i´ve ganged up with Willam Keyser (who also occasionally frequents these forums ) and he has a huge stack of rules he has tried out with his ginormous collection of 6mm stuff. He says he prefers Mein Panzer and Firefly with some additional C&C rules bolted on so we will start with Mein Panzer and take it from there. At some point maybe also Schwere Kompagnie. He also confirmed my initial dislike towards the IABSM card activation system.
Thanks for all the inputs!

"…dislike towards the IABSM card activation system."

Svend,
I encourage you to give this a second thought. As we (seem to) agree for the most part regarding aircombat, I honestly believe that you would appreciate the 'my troops are not chess pieces' attitude of IABSM and the resultant tabletop friction/challenge that results – moreso the 'stories' it generates.

Along with 'Crossfire" (difficult to find a copy) they create a WW2-company tabletop gaming experience that (imo) more closely resembles the one you've generated for WW1 aircombat with ICOG.

Hi Don. I really do not think we disagree on this either. I am just not convinced by the card based mechanic. I really agree that there should be a clear representation of "Friktion" in a strict Von Moltkesqe sense – representing the knowledge gap between desired strategic outcome and the plans (based on limited and wrongful knowledge),the alignment gap between the idealized plans and the resulting human actions and the effects gap between these actions and the expected outcome of these actions.

Ideally the system should represent units that cannot activate when desired, that sometimes does something unintentional or acts out of order – based on the level of command and control and friction. I think my gripe is that Friktion is not random like a card draw… You know it is there. Just not how much and to what extent it will affect you. Some units will be more subjected to friction. I know that big men and special cards along with rolling for move allowance makes up for some of this. I just feel that there must be a more elegant solution (without having the design answer myself).

Friction is random! And the card system is pretty 'elegant' I really do not care if its card or dice based, but this level of combat really has so many elements beyond the control of a company commander. One platoon has no problem going past an obstacle that totally stymies another. Communication issues result in all kinds of misdirects. A key team is lost, and everyone is waiting for them. Too many situations to even list cause friction.

One neat thing about the IABSM card system is how well it models leadership. A platoon on its own will only activate 50% of the time. Add a Big Man to motivate it and now it gets to go 75% of the time. Add two Big Men and it goes 87% of the time. But then of course Big men are also needed to rally off shock, so by putting them all in one place, you make it harder to do stuff elsewhere.
By focusing your command effort where it is needed you can accomplish stuff – but at the expense of neglecting other parts of the battle. It is a good trade-off.

Play Battlegroup Overlord…

For no other reason than if you buy it I will come and demo it for you just so I can play on that superb terrain!!! That is truly lovely.

We have played in 6mm during playtesting for BGO and had good fun. We had a few figures based in ones and twos for casualty counting.

Maneouver Group uses an IGOUGO system as a basis. This is similar but not idntical to Stargrung II which is somewhat similar to Squad leader.

It provides friction but at a level that is predictable (to some extent) so does not simply wipe out any coherent planning which should allow for some friction.

It does seem that there are two strands. Those that like the gambeling elemnt to feature strongly and de-emphasize planning. On the other hand thereare thoise to which some randomness is required but the emphasis is on generation and maintaining a plan which is modified on the basis of the current information.

There is no right or wrong on this but views either way tend to be stongly held. The dividing line seems to align with the simulation vs more of a game approach but not precisely. Both generate the enjoyment for the individuals on a particular side.

Chaos/cards does not de-emphasize planning. It forces the plan to be less specific though. Unit A will move to X,Y,z and hold, unit B will support with field of fire. Less Chaotic often boils down to unit A will move EXACTLY to here, and then here, and then here and unit B will always be able to follow right behind. ASL was the worst for the second scenario (you had to plan to make the absolute most of every MP to win in some scenarios). Card games can break down into doing only what the cards allow from turn to turn though.

If you are looking for controlled, predictable play try Panzer War rules. It uses a semi-simultaneous movement system. Your stationary units will often fire before moving units. I don't care for the Crazy 8s impulse systems.

We use Micro Squad with both 1/285 and 15mm. Works well.

Ok thanks of all the answers. .. tried it out with modified Main Panzer rules.

Brit armor, inf and 6 punders ws Mark 4s and 2 companies.

Worked well. here is some pics:

(the King Tiger is a blind)

Beautiful terrain!

Hi
Yes Svends terrain is fantastic to play on, now those guys just have to make many more boards.

As to rules we are using Mein panzer with some modifications, we discarded the concept of telescoping ranges for infantry weapons, there is just a fundamental problem with panzer fausts firing 300 meters and hitting.

We also use the MMG modified Kill table. We alos have added new command and control, spotting, and morale.

We are not done yet with our updates, but we are now working on getting the ideas on to paper. I will submit all our changes to the guys at Mein Panzer.

The plan is to make the command much more restricting and reflecting the doctrine of the various armies in Normandy to begin with.

William

I started with Tank Charts as my first set years ago. And frankly I still go back to them.

Battleground WWII also good

Feels like I'm playing Company of Heros looking at that terrain, really lovely!

BKC II or Blitzkrieg Commander is superb set – blitzkrieg-commander.com

Your terrain is awesome.