"WWI Aircombat - What do you want?" Topic

For oldtimers: yeah, I'm still here. ; )

For them and anyone else who clicked on this…

If you were to show up at a Con/game -ie:invested time/energy/money in being there- what would you look for in a WWI aircombat game?

What parts of the genre do you expect to be presented to you as a gaming challenge?
- The 4d time-motion skills of plotting movement.
- The 'heroic' nature/performance of the pilots under your control.
- Eye-candy…models/board need to be diorama quality.

I assume in this survey that aircraft performance is not a variable, and would be accounted for in whatever choice is made.

As per usual TMP conventions, you may submit your responses in whatever form pleases you: A, $, none the above, Tuesday, Blast!…Jeeves…I've it again!…

You may now return to your regular programming.

Well, I love Wings of War/Glory for two reasons

1) The "plot your flight" three moves in advance – and we do not use the 3D rules, too complex for a simpleton like me who has all his work cut out for him trying to outsmart the Little Prince

2) The pretty models! Love those German fighters

Loved GDW blue max …local store did that with 1/72 planes ….

Tough to maintain conversation…though hope to maintain routes…

From my perspective, in reverse order:

- the visual aspect should be convincing enough (i.e., aesthetically pleasing, deftly executed) not to impede the players from becoming immersed in the action. "Diorama" quality isn't necessary, but the ground should be something more than a green cloth and the stands that hold the models shouldn't visually overwhelm the planes.

- the pilot (in most air games) is the player, in which case any "heroism" should arise from the player's interaction with the game.

- 4D plotting might go some way towards simulating the interaction of the planes, but the sometimes intricate geometry and arithmetic involved seriously detract from the interaction of the pilots, which should be as fast and intuitive as possible (but then, from your previous work, it's obvious that you knew this already.)

This is a subject that is better suited to a computer game, but it always seems to be very popular when it's presented as a miniatures game at a con, and therefore it's a goal worth pursuing.

1/72nd scale models painted nicely

I'm pretty easy in terms of game rules. I had a great time playing canvas eagles at the Pacific NW con years ago.

Scale is not th emost important, but th eplanes must be pretty… well made/painted, etc…

I play wiht both 1/72nd and 1/144th…

I play predominantly Canvas Eagles, the latest evolution of Blue Max.

I will play any of the games though because the era is fun/romantic.

Now.. I prefer the 3d mode with adjustable flight stands, realistic scaling 5" hexes with 1/144th planes in them…

I like advanced rules for aces and skills, tailing, ground fire an dbaloon busting…

I think that sums it up… Canvas Eagles with 1/144th planes in 5" hexes, advanced rules for all sorts of complexity.

Also.. a hit table that can give you a chance to kill even with a poorer hit.. that is FoW and chance…

I go along with Poniatowski's post. I found that Canvas Eagle(Blue Max) a good choice.

Additionally-

It is easy to learn.

Requires only one sheet of paper for stats and record keeping.

I use 1/72 scale which provides lots of visuals and eye candy for the observer.

Terry

I think that the representational depth in aircraft performance is very much a design variable as the planes in most WWI games fly like they were TIE fighters – no representation of the energy loss in maneuvers that was such as central performance metric with the underpowered aircraft – and one that made a huge difference between new and older aircraft (Richthofen VS Hawker as a classic example) . One of the central parameters of the first air war was the evolution of engines and airframes and the constant race between the nations. This is a central aspect for me. But one that is difficult to balance in terms of playability and realism.

Apart from that: – The 'heroic' nature/performance of the pilots under your control is central for me – the game should tell stories..

As a secondary i really like the modelling side of the hobby. Eye candy is good . but that is integral to miniatures wargaming as a whole methinks .

Also a fan of Canvas Eagles/Blue Max, though for really large games (6 or more players a side) Aerodrome seems like a good fit, even if it's almost simplistic. So for me the plotting movement ('piloting') is of the most interest.

-Will

so.. I think from this that I need a new set of questions…

You guys don't seem to distinguish between players at a Con and pilots in the cockpit.

No insult intended…I'm in the same subset – just looking to expand my perception.

Svend (aka GilmoreDK)…

There is no question in my mind that you've done more good for the promotion of WW1 tabletop gaming than anyone else.

If nothing else comes from this thread, it should be the attention and (deserved) appreciation that goes to the effort of Svend (et al) in promoting and contributing to the building of the tabletop gaming community.

You guys don't seem to distinguish between players at a Con and pilots in the cockpit.

If you are commanding a single plane you ARE the pilot in the cockpit. I know you've tried to convince us all that this is wrong before, I thought this line of questioning seem familiar so I looked up some old threads. You're not going to get any further along this time. If you want a game where you're commanding planes in abstract fashion rather than flying them that game already exists, you're late off the mark:
PDF link

-Will

Well, if I have to provide my own planes 1/600th – NEED French aircraft, all your manufacturers!

I will play the WOW/WOG games because a friend provides everything and it ids pretty wild fun in his furballs.

I refuse to move past 2D to 3D – why? There are 2D rules that provide the same results in the game mechanics IMO.

If I need a smart phone to do the math at a con/local store I better things to use the phone for…

If zI want operational level air combat games will dig out an old boardgame or two.

I moved past simulations as a programmer to games with a history feel as a Human Geographer.

There two different kinds of air combat games: YOU are the singular pilot of your aircraft, or, you are a flight/squadron/group commander moving "fleets" of aircraft. I suppose a blending of the two is theoretically possible, but such a blend would give up aspects of either in order to form such a blend.

I am uninterested in commanding multiple aircraft. Exceptions do occur, when I move and keep record of a flight of bombers, or the "mission aircraft" in addition to "Me". But accuracy suffers, I mean, playing the game accurately, whenever I have to divide my singular attention into multitasking other aircraft.

My first priority is realism.

Close second is playability. But sometimes these get reversed: just as soon as the game becomes a bog, or feels wrong.

I like 1/72 scale airplanes best.

The ground does not have to be modeled.

It would be nice if the mechanics of the game system mostly avoided player error/manipulation, but I long ago stopped holding out any hope that this is realistically possible….

@GilmoreDK… Camvas Eagles DOES take into account gaing speed for diving, losing it for climbing, deflection in your shooting, etc… even engines with left hand torque… AND it keeps it all down to simple mechanics in the game, built n so to speak.

Also, in most games.. the player *is* the pilot at convention games…. at home we control more than one plane, but at shows there is always enough to never need to control more than one…

AND… you do NOT need a calculator to play Canvas Eagles… in fact, one of the best features about CE is the damage system.. it is random and you can get "lucky" and kill the pilot on a single red hit… you can also remove that red damage chit if it is too "devastating" to your games. The chit "blind/random" damage system makes the game really great… WoW has a nice randomness to it too for damage.

There are also rules for aces, campaigns, a very extensive rosted of planes to use, etc… and the best thing of all… ALL information on the game is availabel and free!!!

dan