"Ogre Miniatures Without Ogre Miniatures" Topic

Given the ups, downs, ins, outs, and upside downs of the current Ogre Miniatures line, I thought it might be a good moment to mention, and to seek others' suggestions on, some going alternatives to Ogre Miniatures, since the line seems to either be dying out again, or meeting a cost barrier that will make it hard for a lot of people to break into it. Since the rule set remains sound and the game is great, I'm going to pitch in my own "let's look at the up-side" and see if we can't get some discussion of alternative miniatures lines that would serve the purpose.

My first suggestion is as follows:

3mm-scale from Oddzial Osmy/Ogres from IWM
This involves a scale shift to compensate for the fact that there are not a lot of "Ogre-esque" megatanks on the market. However, the small but expanding O8 sci-fi line is excellent quality, and by making your conventionals small, just about ANY 6mm-scale heavy tank becomes an Ogre by comparison. For multi-weapon Ogre-like vehicles, the Battletech tanks from Iron Wind Metals make great body-doubles, albeit rather more "traditional-looking" ones, but I can speak to the fact that they scale out well with the O8 line and do quite look the part, since the Battletech tendency is to have single tanks with lots of guns on them.

Days of Empire line from Reviresco
These may be the only other purpose-bult Ogre-style tanks on the minis market at the moment, and though I don't have any myself at the moment (soon to be rectified) my impression is that they are not as heavily detailed as some other lines. They are, however, solidly made and very workmanlike, and available at $8 USD to $9 USD apiece, which is really quite hard to beat. They also look like they'd stand up well to a little modding, and so seem to me an excellent bet for purpose. The "Janus" tank series looks particularly workable, although leaning more towards the look of the "BOLO" than the Ogre.

Plasmablast Games
I already have a bunch of the PB "Progenitors" and they are economical and well-made, with a simple, blocky and very military look that meshes ideally with the Ogre aesthetic. I'm considering buying a number more of them and painting these up as Paneuropean tanks. Another advantage: superheavies built into the line, so they scale off very well. Moreover, the new Marhaf Legion seem to be an excellent counterpart to the Progenitors, and may end up being my go-to for the Combine. Put them next to some DoE Reviresco figures and I think you'd have a set that really sits up and works.

C-in-C
Best GEV-alternatives on the market, hands down, and very reasonable. Were having production hiccups this summer, but the product came through in the end, in excellent quality and VERY reasonable prices.

GZG 15mm Vehicles as Ogres
This is something I have never tried, but might. A light tank, combined with a heavy APC, might make a very solid, and very large, Ogre, if used out of scale with 6mm conventionals. This follows the same logic as the O8 method above.

Anyone else have ideas? I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot of good options, but I'm really just trying to jumpstart the conversation, instead of just griping about SJGames' profit and loss statements. Anyone? Ideas?

You could also go with the cardboard counters that came with the original game …?

I was thinking about using stands of the 3mm stuff with the board game. I don't have much interest in plying it as a miniatures game, but would like more of a 3d element to the board game.

Iron Wind Metals still sells the old, huge, four-tread-unit Battletech Demolisher, an excellent start for making an OGRE proxy:

Just add some secondaries and missiles scavenged from other tanks. In fact, Iron Wind sells BT parts, so you can order just the guns without purchasing the hulls.

Gamers have been using BT Savannah Masters as LGEV proxies since they were first released:

In addition to the more obvious BT tracked and hover vehicles, some of the aircraft and space vehicles make excellent GEV proxies. The Pandion WiGE makes a great proxy for the Combine GEV:

A few years back, one of the local gamers created a Nihon OGRE force using wheeled BT vehicles instead of tracked. They looked very cool and different on the tabletop, and the wheels gave a cohesive feel to the collection. I remember he used Hetzers as Light Tanks:

I have seen mentioned some gamers use mechs as stand-ins for Ogres.

From what I have seen, Ogres just seem to be a collection of basic shapes so it would be simple to knock up a few from plasticard and larger scale tanks, surely?

I have also contemplated using GZG light tanks and apc's for 6mm Ogres.

From what I have seen, Ogres just seem to be a collection of basic shapes so it would be simple to knock up a few from plasticard and larger scale tanks, surely?

Yes, someone on TMP did just that and they were quite nifty.

TMP link

I'd just get a 25mm resin tank from gzg or armorcast and use 1/300th tanks from other lines. A few bits of scenery to scale up the resin tank and you are set.

I made my own Ogres before the official ones became available.

link

The small one is based on Scotia castings, and the larger on the old Ral Partha Demolisher tank. I now plan to strip these and repaint them at some point, but not sure for what force yet. I use to use BattleTech miniatures for my Combine force, but retired them for the official figures. These too will be repainted when I get around to it.

The Command Horizon range has some large vehicles that could serve as Ogres.

TMP link

I don't know who produces them now.

jpattern2 I have the old FASA Battletech one which I got from a friend of mine and after putting on a few extra things including an OGRE tower I plan on using it as an Alien OGRE which isn't Pan Euro or Combine.

I also have a small selection of Battletech vehicles to go with it.

Capt G, what paint scheme are you going with for your alien forces?

Zandrius did a gev , hvy tnk , mssltnk, howitzer wch would fit

These are all great choices. Zandris IV's GEVs and Howitzers look like they'd go very well with Plasmablast's Progenitors. And the old Demolisher is a great proto-Ogre!

Many BattleTech tanks, especially the Demolisher or the Athena can stand-in as Superheavy Tanks, too. I find that the majority of their vehicles are too oversized for other 6mm microarmor. However, some, such as the Scorpion Light Tank, Hunter Light Missile Tank, and J. Edgar Hover Tank would fit in well as LT and/or HTs, MSLs, and GEVs respectively. The aforementioned SM hoversleds are probably the best go-to for LGEVs, though the Gabriel is another option.

At some point I will fill out my Zandris IV 6mm force and give them over to the Nihon Empire; as an expeditionary force, I won't feel their lack of a SHVY as much, though I do not know yet which direction to go for the Nihon cybertanks. Anywho, the ZIV models are excellent and worth the asking price.

I have some notional plans for the Chinese military, based mainly around GZG stuff. At the moment, I have an artillery detachment ready to go based upon Jupiter heavy-howitzer tubes and the old aircraft/VTOL round stands. My HTs would probably be Jupiter tanks as well, but that is about as far as I've gone…that faction is simply not a priority.

If you are willing to mix "manufacturer factions", Brigade Models yields a pretty wide selection that can handle every need. Their NeoSov line has tracks galore, the SAC uses wheels, and pretty much everyone else uses some type or hover or GEV (or grav) motive system. For the basics you could use:

SHVY…Mammont link
HVY…Bizon link
LT…Rosomakha link
MSL…Osa link
MHZ…Shtorm link
GEV…Thor link
GEV PC…Lynx link (NOTE: this is a little small for PA infantry, but it maintains the aesthetic)
LGEV…Baldur Light Tank link
TRK…Hippo link
HTRK…Thrall link

Hrm. Chinese faction right there?

And never count out C-in-C ( link ) that can handle every GEV or HVY need, as well as infantry and ground-mount artillery (or LADs, depending on usage). They can also help if you need any of the specialized MSL or upgunned GEVs that have made net-appearances over the years.

GZG also has the 2/3mm Germy line, which includes a DIY monster tank. The look of the rest of the line is pretty different than Oddzial Osmy's new stuff, but the GZG big tanks and O8's stuff should be ok.

link

If I was going to do OGRE without their models, I'd go with GZG's 3mm Germy line …

jpattern2 I've not decided on a paint scheme yet any ideas?

If you're going 3mm, the Plasmablast Progenitor Tigerclaw would make an excellent OGRE, with or without modification:

In 6mm, the Foundationist Mobile Command Center (Microworld Games) is the right size:

…as is the TEF Infernus:

Spartan Games also has their 10mm sf game coming soon, and the super heavies from that range show a lot of promise

There were a lot of mixed signals about what scale this was going to end up being. They had my full atention when they said it was 15mm, but from what I've read it's now 10mm.

I've not decided on a paint scheme yet any ideas?

For aliens, I've always liked various metallics. Not very original, I know, just the influence of decades of War of the Worlds, The Invaders, UFO, and other shows and movies.

Whatever the scale, Spartan has MY attention. Those are some swick-looking BOLOs right there!

There is also the MAATAC tanks (old line from Superior) at Monday Knight Productions link

In the old MAATACS line, what I think are good Ogre stand-ins come from the Terrans and the Carnivores (yes, I still have mine, bought in the early '80s).

Rob

Scroll down for some nice howitzer models that are compatible with the Ogre design ethic.

link

And now we have this: link

I saw that, they make Slammer M2 "Blowers" and M9 Cbt Car ACAVs … pretty nice for 3mm !

And ideal as GEV/LGEV items for the 3mm Conventionals scheme.

I wonder how John Treadaway feels about that.

I sent this to John. He said he never saw them before … Nor have I …

Well, that's a bummer. Hopefully, they can work something out – I'd love to have the Slammers at 3mm scale, myself! But it's up to John (and, after a fashion, David Drake) as to how they proceed with that.

On the upside, Irregular makes some nominally 2mm scale tanks that would be good GEVs as well:

irregularminiatures.co.uk

Neat !

Well – my bad… With so many different models called 'Hammer's Slammers' around I've just treated as miniatures 'style' not as trademarked design… I've made them for fun mostly and as an exercise (designing something popular in 'my way'). If it is a violent breaking of copyrights we will remove it from offering or alter design more…
Anyway – my bad…

Marcin
Oddzial Osmy

I do hope some accommodation can be reached – I love the design and would like to see the rest of them at 3mm scale. I'm sure that's all up to the interested parties, of course, but still.

It is clearly very similar, though it does have a number of major differences: hull shape, turret size and gun shape… If it were seen as an infringement, I'm sure it could be rectified with an alteration rather than a clean withdrawal of the line. And in any event, I hope we'd see some alternative hovercraft-tanks like this from O8 to fill the gap. Heck, I'd be happy to design some, myself, if it would help.

Out of interest, if it's just a regular breech of copyright and not a violent one will you still remove them from sale?

I don't think there's any such thing as a normal or a violent copyright breach, unless you're doing it at gunpoint (somehow). An infringement either is or is not, it's not a matter of degree. It's mostly a matter of the extent to which it's worth it to the owner of the IP to pursue enforcement of it.

This might actually be a trademark issue rather than a copyright. There's a distinction there, because this represents a distinctive shape or product design, not a particular idea or piece of printed matter. It may be that it's general enough a design ("Hovercraft Tank with a Round Turret") that it can't really be trademarked, but I can't speak to that specifically – it is pretty recognizable, one has to admit, given the wide distribution of David Drake's work and John Treadaway's derived game material.

I'm not an expert, of course – those better versed in that could comment better than I, I'm sure. All I can say is that I hope there's a reasonable compromise to be had, if indeed there's a rights issue at stake here. I'd like to buy the product, naturally (to support Marcin and O8), but if it's a rights issue, I want John and/or David Drake to be treated fairly as well, vis-a-vis their intellectual property. I'm sure some kind of proper negotiation could produce a beneficial solution.

I can't really add a great deal to what's already been mentioned and suggested here, but if anyone wants to take away any of my actual Ogre minis, I'd be happy to see them make it to a good home rather than in a dusty, never-to-be-loved box. Drop a PM.

@doomkitten – email me at artbraune @ gmail.com (remove spaces) – re: your Ogre minis…

Doomkitten I would have some interest in your OGRE's as well.

Please email me yamamoto 87 @ Hotmail.com(remove spaces) and in the subject say OGRE Mini's.

I'm very glad to say I'm not a lawyer.

John T

David Drake is !

I didn't want to say that, McWong!…

John T

Well not to get too involved, I didn't mean to start anything dealing with legalities and lawyers … Maybe Oddzail post a note on your site and thru John on his Slammers site about these and give John a percentage of the sales ? Or maybe, I should just shut up …

To avoid any further copyright issues, current design of those vehicles will be changed. I'm sorry for this situation.

Marcin
Oddzial Osmy

I'm glad you won't be withdrawing entirely. I'll take a design change over a total end of line any day.

--M

Marcin

I don't want to stop people collecting nice miniatures in whatever scale.

Just talk to me.

John T

I hope it all works out too. I just ordered some LOL . Robert