"Database for manufacturers to review" Topic

I keep seeing manufacturers release new items, then their choice of product/scale gets chewed up by the masses. There is also the chance that a company will invest in a loser, and we end up minus one manufacturer – which can only be bad news.
I think it would be great if we could have a section much like the old Liberty and Union on the WGF forums. It wouldn't be binding to either producers or customers, but would allow producers to gauge interest. Im sure there would be a lot of non viable stuff asked for, but that could be deleted after so many days when nobody shows interest. Would the poll software work for this? It would also have the knock on effect of having any producer want to visit TMP regularly to check for updates, which also can only be good. I don't see a thread (or board) as a good solution as things would rapidly disappear into obscurity. Is it doable, or even wanted?

The trouble is, talk is cheap.
Plenty of manufacturers get told by people, especially on TMP that they would buy loads of X if they made it.
Yet when X becomes available those that made the promises disappear.
Just as when a company brings out product A, lots of people will post about how great it is and how this is on their next order.
Yet the company don't sell any.

I for one would pay no attention to it.

Oh and then you will get people asking for things that are other peoples IP, which will simply encourage illegal practices, such as is rife within 15mm sci-fi.

I never thought that anyone paid attention to me when it came to "I would buy whole battalions of Valgorian Cuirassiers zu Fuss if someone made them in 32mm!"
Seriously, a company that gets in trouble following cranks on TMP is not a serious business.
The Perrys are a classic example of a company making what THEY would like to play with, and the quality (or perhaps "reputation" is a better word) ensures that the product sells. How many buy new Perry stuff sight unseen?
That is why if Perry, Eureka or Fifw and Drum were to make "Washington Crossing the Delaware" I would buy it sight unseen. I doubt a Poll driven request database would encourage any of these to make it. They have to WANT it, and then market it.

As AB says, customers may SAY they will but hundreds of something but that is very rarely followed up by actual orders.

You build a proper, sustainable business by producing solid ranges of figures that will appeal across a spectrum; not by chasing the latest fad.

I have seen too many smaller producers over the years producing a scattering of figures across a number of scales and genres without actually producing a full range and eventually they disappear because the business isn't producing items that sell consistently.

Mike

I can vouch that only a small portion of customers who SAY they will buy something when it comes out do. I took a gig photographing at a local race track. Lots of people loved my photos, oohhed and aahhed over them and said they would buy "next week". They all were surprised when I stopped showing up becuase I was losing money though.

The ones that crack me up are the guys who shout take my money now. I've seen this on facebook a few times. The guys who yell it… never order. I know their names and never see them.

The only real method that works is something like kickstarter or the other various systems of preorder that people have used in the past. The trick is to get a financial commitment up front. Even something as simple as everyone interested in this project toss a $1 USD in this pot. When that pot gets to $200 USD we make it and everyone gets a code for $2 USD off the product.

Its hard to get useful information out of forums. TMP is particularly bad. Not because the people are wrong but the interest level is VAST. So I might say hey what terrain do you want to see and feel the market needs? You can look up this thread BTW. It was useless. Half the stuff didn't even register with me. I was like what is that? I personally look for holes. For instance, my LCVP kits were created because I saw a post with people praising some landing craft a guy scratch built. He did an ok job but they were basically boxes with some circles glued to them. People asked him if they were for sale anywhere. So I saw a hole and knew I could do a lot better with my laser. So I built a prototype and posted a preview. That thread exploded so I knew there was a market. That lead to the LCM and LCA releases. Both of which have sold ok but not great. The LCVP sold really good and continues to do 10+ units a month.

I've had a lot of duds and more then a few complete failures. I'm in a unique position that my development costs are lower so I don't have as much trouble recovering or at least breaking even.

As an example of people saying they want it and never buying… My 15mm scifi kits were raved about on the forums. Tons of people talking about them. They hit the store and …. nothing. I think to date those kits have sold around 3 or 4 copies each in over a year. I stopped development on them instantly. I have 3 or 4 more buildings in various stages of prototyping but they will probably never get to market.

I go by gut instinct for most of my products. My personal motto is See a Need, Fill a Need. (yes I stole it from the movie robots) It's like the schrodinger's cat experiment. Ask for what needs to be done and your not going to get a great answers. Listen to the background noise and your going to see the holes. It holds me back some because I don't get out of my wheel house much. I either extensively play a game and see what needs to be added or I watch people who do.

One more example… I have a product that I stopped development on a while back. It's a card/token holder for X-wing. BGG hated the idea. A bunch of whining about the minor details and how their play style doesn't fit with it. Mostly you either put tokens on the card or on the ship. I put them on the ship so it works great. There was also some backlash about not being able to see your opponents cards. However, on my facebook page I keep getting a massive response and demand for the product. I'm not 100% happy with it yet but I need to get back to it and release it.

Over the years, I've had lots of people say 'If you brought these figures out I would buy xxx of them.' Say 'OK I'll bring them out' and it's 'great! as soon as they're out I'll put in an order!' I bring the figures out and in about 75% of the time that's the last I hear from the 'customer'. Remember, these are people who come to me with 'definite' orders, so just asking for people to post a wish list is going to be worse.

The market is not really predictable to me. I would have lost money if someone had bet me that My Little Pony was the next big thing in gaming.

I make odds and ends, but sort of make whatever seems kind of cool for me at the moment.

Right now I am tinkering with some ideas for 1/72 scale sci-fi. No one will ever buy it, but I can at last do my Stalingrad with nasty future robots- game. So I will get the products I want at least. I do this as a hobby mostly. I am a horrible business man and will never be good at making money, so take my advice and do the opposite.

I am in the mind set that kick starter is the only way forward. As much as it seems out of line with my basic instincts, loads of cash being thrown at people has a way of clearly demonstrating just how wrong I was.

I chatted with Rebel at Nashcon a bit about this kind of stuff. Your business model is perfectly acceptable Ken. :) I even envy you a bit for it. The other path is potentially more rewarding in the end. You get to tinker with your injection machine and cnc machines and don't stress out about it. However, people like me are aiming much higher and have the potential to fall much farther. Worst case scenario you don't run your machine for a bit and get to play with your own creations. My worst case scenarios is a repo of the house and massive debt. Not to mention heart attack or stroke from the stress.

I'm almost to the point were I can hire someone but the workload is still really heavy. I can't release cool stuff I want because I don't have time to tinker with it. It has to be something profitable or it's not worth my time. If I had my way I'd be designing laser cut buildings all day instead of staring at an outstanding like of over 500 omni-stand rods to make and a laser cutter that is broken and trying to get a new tube from the manufacturer who keeps sending me crap.

My business model is mostly based on being old and having kids that are grown. Also, a wife with a good job helps a lot too.

I would like to make some cash once in a while. :)

The biggest problem I see facing all of the small operations is one that was addressed in an earlier thread. We should band together! I tried this and was left more than a little disappointed.

I am still not giving up on the hope that I might find an agreeable group of people to cooperate with. I need a rules guy, an internet guy, maybe an artist, etc. Most of all- NO DUNGEON MASTERS! The guy who thinks his word is final and must control everything.

Someday that might happen, but until then we all keep struggling along alone in the wilderness.

Sounds like you need to find a fledgling kickstarter and offer to do the molds and figures for them :)

I think the world has changed and an organization could develop around enabling smaller companies to execute their dreams with less hassle. Providing a backend for them so they can worry about the creative side and less about the production side. Sorta like Cafepress but for figures. Wargames vault and others have the rules publishing side of this down pat. You have a section for sculptors to toss things up for sale on the rights and also a showcase so guys can go to them directly and work out deals to get the sculpts done and then a fulfillment service offering to make them for you. create bundles like $3 USDk for 5 15mm sculpts, metal casting molds, and a small run of 500 units. Or for $2.5 USDk you can create your line of 5 figures and we will list and distribute the packages for you for x per package and you set your price. The difference in price is your cut. Same model cafepress does.

I can echo most of the above. If I had a £1.00 GBP for every one who has approached me at a show with " when are you going to make" some obscure bit of kit followed by "I want one & so does my mate "

I can echo most of the above. If I had a £1.00 GBP for every one who has approached me at a show with " when are you going to make" some obscure bit of kit followed by "I want one & so does my mate "
Ian ( Shell Hole & 20mmZone )

What's nice about Kickstarters is that you can see if people will actually put their money where their mouth is. I wouldn't give a plug nickel for any opinion expressed on this forum, or any other fora.

How about a database more like imdb, instead of movies it would be about miniatures. Having a way to easily see who has what, and what is in the works by others might make it easier to fill in with what is not already there.

Being able to sort by time period, scale, material and whatever could be useful.

I usually make the stuff I like or need and if the customer buys it.. great :)

I get emails every week of "You should do this, or this" … some are pretty off the wall but the customers that know me, and know what I like and game, usually have some good ideas…

RebelMike
Rebelminis.com