"Battlestars Vs. Basestars board game." Topic

I have updated the BvB Parts file with the latest version of the rules and added a .pdf of the rulebook to the download site so that it can be downloaded separately:

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Alan, Rob here…quick question. Am I correct in assuming that a basestar/battlestar gets to do three actions in a turn: attempt to launch fighters, move/change facing, and conduct combat out of as many fire zones as there are targets? In the section on launching fighters, I just noticed that it says if the attempt fails it still counts as the unit's action for the turn and it made me think I might be misunderstanding something. Can you confirm or clarify for me, please?

Also, the illustrations showing the launch points of fighters show the fighters pointing in a specific direction. Is that the only direction they can face upon launch, or can they face in any valid direction upon launch?

Thanks so much,
Rob

Hi Rob. I'm happy to answer your questions.

The intent behind the rules is that each unit gets to move and take one action each turn in that order. That one action can be any of the actions listed for the unit type in the rules section on unit actions.

Fighters and missiles are capable of moving multiple hexes in a single turn and the rules refer to each of the individual movements as taking a move action. i.e. Each time a unit moves from one hex to an adjacent hex or changes facing it takes a movement action and all of the unit's movement actions combined constitute the unit's total movement for the turn.

So, specifically for battlestars/basestars: A battlestar/basestar can move one large hex or change facing and then perform one action which may be to either launch fighters or conduct combat.

Conducting combat is done against one target in range not all targets in range. However, some cards like flak barrage allow you to "attack" multiple targets at once.

Also, Action Stations allows a battlestar to take an extra action (launch fighters or conduct combat) each turn while it is in play, but not to move twice.

Fighters should be placed in the launch points oriented as shown in the diagram.

Also, note that playing a card and/or resolving the effect of a card never counts as taking an action. So, for example, Alert Vipers allows a battlestar to launch Vipers but doing so doesn't count as taking an action for the battlestar.

Interestingly, Rob, in very early versions of the game battlestars/basestars were allowed to engage every target in range as a single combat action.

Play testers found that this really devalued the fighters and made them almost unnecessary. All of the games devolved into large ships squaring off against each other without bothering to launch many fighters and then finishing the game off with a volley of miisiles.

I still wanted to somehow represent a battlestar's area attack/zone suppression capabilities, so I settled on making combat be against one target in range and added the Flak Barrage, Blaze of Glory and Cylon Jamming cards for area attacks.

This achieved the feel I was going for pretty well: I wanted the game to focus on the carrier aspects of the ships and place the emphasis of the game on the fighters.

I think as it stands now, the fighters constitute the bulk of the capitol ships' offensive capability. The battlestars/basestars are still potent against individual targets since they don't have to roll doubles to inflict damage, but their firepower supplements the fighters not the other way around.

I think you will find that a lot of the best tactics in the game revolve around using your battlestars/basestars as platforms for playing cards and launching fighters and *then* supplementing you fighter attacks with you battlestar/basestar's firepower.

Thank you so much for that info. We have been playing a few things wrong; for instance, we did allow the large ships to fire at all targets in range and you're exactly right…they were just slaying things within three large hexes all around them. We also have been allowing the large ships to move, launch fighters, and also do fire combat. Again, this makes them very potent. I like your way of doing it, as I think it makes the large ship commander have to decide between launching and conducting fire combat.

We are really enjoying the game. I am going to run it at the Williamsburg Muster in Williamsburg, VA, the weekend after next. Thank you so much for all the hard work you put into designing the game…it really is a gaming masterpiece in my opinion.

Thanks! I'm happy that people are enjoying it.

The prodigal gamer returns…

Sounds like I've been missing out on a lot of fun, all the sadder as a friend got really interested when you first brought it up, Daricles.

Does anyone have a printable file(s) of images of all the cards? A printable image of the map, perhaps a hi-res PDF I could print as a poster? Thanks!

Nothing I have seems to edit the images worth a, well, you know.

Doug

Doug, I added the card images in .png format to the download site last week. There is a link to the image files as a separate download a few posts back or you can download the parts file -- everything is up to date in it and it also includes the .png card files.

I'll look into posting a .pdf of the map.

Doug, here is a link to a .pdf of the space map. However, I would recommend using the .psb image in the parts file to print a vinyl banner instead of poster printing the .pdf since the image is about 3' x 5' in size.

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For about $35.00 USD you can upload the .psb and have a vinyl banner printed here: link which probably isn't much more than the cost of the printer cartridge you'll use up poster printing the .pdf.

Note: .psb is Adobe's large document format. Most printers that accept .psd files can also work with .psb files. I have used .psb files at allstate banners several times.

Sorry for the extra work, but right now, just printing on the job is about all I can handle.

I had in mind sheets of the cards about 9 or 12 a page, just wondered if someone had done that.

I was having issues trying to work with .png, but just remembered a couple of other things I've not tried.

Thanks, but don't give it another thought.

Doug

I wouldn't do this for anyone else but you, Doug. ;) Here is a link to all of the cards on .pdf sheets:

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Use a light table and the black index marks to align the card fronts with the card backs and trim the cards between the corners of the index marks as shown in the instruction .pdf. Note that the card backs are designed with white bleed space around the image. Also, you will obviously need to print multiple copies of the card back sheets.

Got my cards from Printers Studio last night. They look great, decent quality, shuffles nice. Can't wait to debut the game at my club this weekend. Thanks again!

I wouldn't do this for anyone else but you, Doug. ;)

Gosh, that makes me feel special.

Wait, since I work at a university, that makes me 'special education…' Okay, I deserve that.

Doug

Rob, how did the convention go?

Sorry for not commenting sooner, Alan. I got so caught up in running the game that I completely forgot to take pictures! A friend of mine did, though, and as soon as I get it from him I'll share it here because a friend of mine (who owns a sign business) made the map for me and it came out fantastic! As for the game, I taught two new players how to play and everyone enjoyed it…for the most part.

I ran Counterattack; for those who don't know, this pits the Galactica and Pegasus against two Cylon basestars. One of the Cylon players caught onto the card thing wayyyy too quickly…absolutely killed the humans with cards. The only saving grace was that the Colonials managed to isolate a basestar, gang up on it with fighters, and pounded it until they destroyed it. Alas, it was too little too late as the Colonials ran out of cards in another turn. We have played Counterattack several times and honestly it is just way hard to the humans to survive it. The scenarios where the Colonials have to jump ships away seem to give them a better chance at victory, as it forces the Cylons to go after the civilian ships instead of simply ganging up on the battlestars.

All in all, though, we had a blast and I can't wait to run it again. I'm thinking of running it at Historicon this summer.

The BvB website has been updated with revision 1.4.0. Most of the changes are balancing tweaks to scenario objectives and scenario rules to improve game balance.

There were also a few minor rules changes. The change with the biggest impact on game play is that fighter units may now take any number of move actions up to the chosen die result rather than having to take a number of move actions equal to the chosen die result. This change was based on a lot of player feedback indicating that combat seemed a little too difficult for fighters. The change should make it easier for fighters to get into a good firing position and therefore to use fewer action dice for movement. As a result, fighters should see an improvement to their combat effectiveness.

1.4.0

Missile Movement – Improved the wording without making any functional changes.

Land Fighters – Landing fighters must now be in a large hex containing a launch point instead of in any large hex within one large hex of the ship.

Fighter Movement – Fighters may now take any number of movement actions up to the chosen die result instead of having to move a number of movement actions equal to the chosen die result.

Scenarios were reformatted to list the objectives before the set up section.

The rules and scenarios were split into separate .pdf documents.

After additional play testing changes were made to the objectives and rules in several scenarios:

· In scenarios with a Cylon objective to destroy human fighters the number of fighters the Cylons have to destroy to complete the objective was reduced.

· Scenario rules regarding the interaction of Danger Close Jump and civilian ships was changed.

· Scenario rules for intercepting fighters on planets were changed in Scenarios 6, 8 and 10.

· The set up for Scenario 6 was changed and some restrictions on when human ships can jump to safety to end the game were added to the scenario.

· Some restrictions on when human ships can jump to safety to end the game were added to Scenario 10.

· Scenario 12 was limited to two players. Too many complications were caused by mixing Cylons and humans on the same team in the three to five player versions of the scenario.

The BvB Scenario Book can be downloaded in .pdf format here:

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The BvB parts file has also been updated with the separated .pdf rulebook and scenario book.

Thanks for posting your comments Rob.

The Counter Attack scenario has only been lightly play tested (as have several of the other scenarios).

If you have time to answer a few questions to help me balance the scenario I'd appreciate it:

How many players did you have in your games and how many turns did they last?

Did the humans draw Ragnar Anchorage? If so, were they able to use it to shuffle their discard pile back into their deck or did Cylons cancel its effect?

Do you think the humans might have had a reasonable chance of victory if they had done something different? If not, do you have any suggestions about how to balance the scenario?

I have been considering changing the human victory conditions to allow them to jump away at the beginning of their turn any time after destroying one basestar for a draw. Do you think this would be enough to balance the scenario?

Hey there! The two times we ran Counterattack we had 2 human and 3 cylon players in one game and 2v2 in the other game. To be honest, we were having so much fun both times I don't recall exactly but I would say both games ran about 8 to 10 turns. In the 5 player game the humans did pull the Ragnar Anchorage card, but lost the game on poor tactics and incredible die rolling by the Cylons. Galactica was destoyed and Pegasus was being overwhelmed by the 3 Cylon basestars. In the 4-player game, one of the Cylon players caught on to the card issue for the humans and burned through their deck so fast and the Ragnar card wasnt found by the humans.

In the first game, I don't think there was anything the humans could have done differently; the dice gods were against them! In the second game, the humans tried to concentrate on a basestar to destroy it but the cards just ran out too quickly. On the second to last turn they did manage to destroy one but it was too little too late…their cards ran out. I do think letting the humans jump away after destroying one basestar would make that scenario more winnable for the humans.

Thanks for the feedback, Rob. Playtest reports like that really help me out when it comes to balancing the scenarios. It's always great to talk to players outside of my own group to eliminate any bias caused by our particular play styles.

I've been play testing Scenario 6: Search and Rescue pretty hard lately and haven't gotten back around to the Counter Attack scenario yet. However, I've added a draw condition to the scenario based on your input: If the humans safely jump away at least one battlestar after destroying one basestar the game is a draw. They have to roll one die and get higher than the # of Vipers on the board to execute the jump.

Generally, the humans really have to conserve their resources (cards) in order to win the game. It's tempting to wade into combat and try and match the Cylons card for card, but you'll wind up burning through your cards too quickly and lose by getting decked. Instead, you have to resist the temptation and judiciously play your cards when they can really swing the game in your favor or when you absolutely have to save your butt.

Here are a couple ideas for tweaking the game balance for the Counter Attack scenario if you think the humans still need a little more help in that scenario:

1) Reduce the Cylon players' hand size to 4 in a two or four player game.

2) Allow the humans to start the game with one of the Good Hunting cards in play.

3) Whenever the humans destroy a basestar place the top 10 cards of their discard pile on the bottom of their deck. (This basically buys them one additional game round to complete their objectives).

Sounds like I'm missing out on all the fun, and the game images look superb!

Anyone have a count on the numbers and types of minis required to play all the scenarios, or at least the basic ones, beyond the one Galactica, and one Pegasus Battlestar, e.g.:

1. Cylon Basestars
2. Cylon Fighters
3. Cylon Shuttles
4. Colonial Fighters by types
5. Colonial Shuttles
6. and Civilian Ships?

Has there been any thought to the pre-extermination event, attack on the worlds, to pit more Battlestars vs. Basestars in hypothetical, and/or older battles?

Hi Mako. The miniatures breakdown is as follows:

Galactica
8 Viper MkII
4 Viper MkVII
4 Raptor

Pegasus
12 Viper MkVII
4 Raptor

3 Basestars each with:
12 Raiders
4 Heavy Raider

I recommend using tokens for the civilian ships even if you use minis for the rest of the ships.

There are token sheets available in .pdf format if you don't have minis.

I haven't done any 1st Cylon war scenarios. I'm still balancing out the scenarios and promised myself I wouldn't create any new scenarios until the existing ones are finalized. However, Ravenstar's Longbow mini has been tempting me.

Thanks for the details on the numbers of minis needed.

Here's a quick review of card decks from PrinterStudio:

I ordered three decks of Cylon and three decks of Human playing cards for BvB from PrinterStudio. The decks were poker sized with custom fronts and backs on standard 300 gsm smooth card stock for $8.99 USD per deck plus shipping.

The card stock quality was good. The cards are stiff enough to be durable but pliable enough to be easily shuffled and have a smooth texture. Each deck came in a clear plastic case.

The image quality was good. All of the pictures were clear and the color closely matched the original files. The text was easily readable:

However, the white space tolerance for centering the images on the card backs seems a little loose:

If you examine the card back very closely there is a slight but discernible variance from card to card in where the images are centered. For a casual game between friends this shouldn't be a problem, but the card backs would definitely be an issue for a competitive game and can't be considered casino quality for that reason.

I paid for standard shipping and the decks took about three and half weeks to arrive at my door, which was slightly longer than I expected.

Overall, I would rate the cards as acceptable quality. I ended up re-ordering the same decks from make-a-deck.com. Their prices are about double what PrinterStudio charges, but they deliver true casino quality decks in about a week.

If anyone is interested in purchasing these PrinterStudio decks please email me at bloniarz@hotmail.com. I have three Human decks and three Cylon decks to sell on a first-come-first-served basis. I'll part with them for $5.00 USD each plus shipping, which is less than what they cost me.

I'm looking for a little help from those of you who have played BvB.

All of the playtesting I've done to date indicates that the Cylon deck is a little bit too efficient and it is a little bit too easy to deck the humans for a win.

I've zeroed in on two specific cards in the Cylon deck that I think should be nerfed a tad. Here's what I'm considering:

Lost Resources (Original)

Lost Resources (Revised)

This change is a no brainer for toning down the Cylons' ability to deck the human team. There are three Lost Resources cards in the Cylon deck so this change is effectively a +3 card shift in favor of the humans.

The other card I'm considering changing is Conflicted Loyalty:

Conflicted Loyalty (Original)

I'm not sure which of the following Conflicted Loyalty revision options is best. The problem with Conflicted Loyalty as it stands now is that it does too much. Not only does it give the Cylon player a +2 net card advantage, but it also helps deck the human team by forcing them to draw two more cards on their next turn and it is almost as good as scoring two hits on a human ship since cards in hand are discarded to mitigate combat damage.

Conflicted Loyalty (Revision Option 1)

Conflicted Loyalty (Revision Option 2)

Conflicted Loyalty (Revision Option 3)

I am concerned that the first option might be too much of a reduction in the card's effectiveness.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if the second option is enough of a reduction. If there are two players on the human team the only effective change is to spread the defensive loss over two ships. It's still a +2 net card advantage for the Cylons and still forces the humans to draw two extra cards their next turn.

What are your thoughts? Any input you guys can offer will be very helpful.

I have not played the game, but I still had a thought. You could change the second card to…

"Play this card at the beginning of your turn. Randomly choose 2 cards from any enemy player. Select 1 card to discard and return the other to the enemy player."

You are still only discarding 1 card, but the cylon player gets to pick the stronger card and gets some inside information about what the enemy has in their hand.

This option seems thematic to me as well.

Alan, I just checked in here after a long hiatus and saw your comments about the Cylon cards. My playtesting only goes to about 10 games, but I like the 3rd option for the Conflicted Loyalty card. The reason is in the removing that free card draw; so far, my experience is that the Humans get pantsed with the deck thing, so let the Cylon player force a discard but make them wait to refill their deck…too many times there is a feeding frenzy of slamming the Humans with cards, and by not allowing a free draw at the playing of Loyalty it might slow that down a bit.

I also agree with Lost Resources revision. It just slows down what is inevitable but it allows a little breathing room for the Humans.

My buddies and I played Olympic Carrier last week, and my Human partner did something "unthinkable"…he blew up the Olympic Carrier before it could get to us! We managed to destrou one of the 3 basestars, but a dumb jump on my part took Galactica out of the game and the Cylons decked us. Next game I'm going to run Ragnar Anchorage to prep for the Williamsburg Muster, where I will be running the game on Saturday Feb 6th.

Anything special you'd like me to try out for that game, other than the card revisions?

Your friend in the stars,
Rob

Thanks for the feedback guys. It really helps. I am currently using the third version of Conflicted Loyaly in my playtests for exactlt the reasons you suggested Rob. So far I am encouraged that these two changes may balance things out.

Rob, in most of my games where the humams lose to decking I've found that the humans only needed one or two more turns to have a reasonable shot at victory or at least a draw. Has your experience been the same or have those human losses been blowouts?

With the changes to the two cards above I'm starting to see positive results. Dropping Lost Resources to three cards buys the humans another game turn and dropping the card draw from Conflicted Loyalty makes those long runs of Cylon plays happen a little less frequently, which is good.

I recently found an error in the special rules for Battle at New Caprica. Civilian ships attemting to jump to safety after leaving the planet should roll less than or equal to their distance from the planet, not greater than or equal.

I have also changed Attack on Colonial One so that civilian ships roll a d8 rather than a d6 for their jump attempts.

I'll try to update the website with those changes tthis weekend.

I haven't tested The Ragnar Anchorage scenario in a while. I remember being concerned that it might be too difficult for the humans to jump ships to safety and had been weighing two options at the time. One was to start the civilian ships one large hex column closer to the board center. The other option I was looking at was allowing each human ship a jump roll rather than only one ship per turn. If your playtesting in preparation for the con shows the humans are struggling you may want to try one of those tweaks.

My recent playtesting has been on the Battle at New Caprica scenario. So far, it seems to be pretty well balanced and has been a bloody close fought brawl and a lot of fun in the games we've played. You may want to give it a look. Just take note of the error I mentioned above.

Let me know how your games go at the convention. I hope you guys have fun playing.

Thanks man, for the quick reply! The human defeats have been as you mention, for the most part. One game I played in as a human player was a blowout, but that was just the gods of gaming letting a buddy of mine grind me into asteroid dust! Usually the Humans are just about to pull it out when they run out of cards, so I think the card changes you have put into place should really even things out.

I want to try that New Caprica scenario; it looks like quite a challenge to play, is different from the usual head to head games, plus I remember that awesome scene in the series when they jumped the Galactica into the atmosphere.

Ill keep you posted on the games. Thanks again for coming up with such a cool game!

I forgot to mention about the Ragnar Anchorage comments…I had thought about allowing a jump roll for all civilian ships on turn 1 but reducing that by one each turn until its down to 1 per turn, or the civilian ships have all jumped. Ill try that and let you know hownit goes.

Ok, we played Ragnar Anchorage tonight with the card revisions you described above. It was a Human victory by a fairly comfortable margin, but that could have been due to an error by one of the Cylon players; we were playing four players and he had a card that would allow a third basestar but he misread it and didn't play it. The revised Conflicted Loyalty and Lost Resources cards did come up, and played well with the revisions.

I tried letting all Human civilian ships roll to jump on turn two and it was too powerful…four ships were able to jump immediately (lucky die rolling!) so we reset them and went back to one per turn. That worked fine as we were able to get four jumped with only two destroyed.

One question that came up was about drawing cards; do you have to draw cards, or can you choose to draw less than your full had or even not draw any? Also, missile movement seems to make it not practical to launch anti-ship missiles from a capital ship…they never overtake the other capital ships!

Wow. That would have been lucky rolling with only a 1 in 3 chance for each ship on turn 2.

The card drawing mechanic requires you to draw up to your full hand size at the beginning of your turn.

Ships move at the same effective speed as missiles and missiles therefore can't overtake an enemy ship moving away unless you can block the ship's path with another unit such as a fighter or trap the ship at a board edge.
However, missiles are useful against ships trying to close with the launching ship and in close quarters battles. Well timed missile launches from cap ships can often be the deciding factor in a battle.

Try launching a few missiles and following them in to engage a target. Having a couple anti-ship missiles about to impact an enemy ship just as your ship is coming into gun range can make a difference in the outcome of the ship to ship battle. Also, following a wave of anti-fighter missiles into combat can clear a few enemy fighters out of the way and free your ship up to engage other targets.

I have been kicking around the idea of adding the possibility of rescuing the Olympic Carrier to the scenario you recently played. I was thinking that the humans could try to land a boarding party on the Olympic Carrier. While the humans have a boarding party on the ship they can make an opposed die roll to prevent the Cylons from blowing up the ship during the Cylon turn and could gain control of the Olympic Carrier by winning a boarding party action on the human player's turn. Rescuing the Olympic Carrier could increase the number of civilian ships the Cylons have to destroy by one or provide a draw condition for the humans or maybe some other benefit like allowing the humans to shuffle their discard pile back into their deck.

What do you think?

I like the possibility of retaking the Olympic Carrier. I was floored when my partner wanted to destroy it the other night…even after I reminded him of the little girl that Laura Roslin befriended being on it, he still went through with it. Savage! I like having the retaking of the Carrier allow the Human player to shuffle their discard pile back into their deck. That's probably the one comment I hear the most…dang Cylons get to reshuffle their deck and so burn through cards like crazy, and Humans have to hold their breath and look for that one card that lets them do it. I'm not complaining; just sharing.

We'll try that with the missiles. I do agree that there are tactics to use with the missiles that would make them quite useful. It's a mark of a great game, IMHO, when what looks like such a simple set of rules holds so many nuances and subtleties.

As for the lucky die roll for jumping on a 1 in 3 chance…four 2s in a row he rolled! If a rule can be broken it will happen when you least expect it, of course!

Yeah. Weird things do happen sometimes. That's why I wasn't sure if it was too hard to jump ships to safety in Ragnar Anchorage or not. The Cylons got a bunch of early jump cards and the humans rolled poorly on their jump rolls in one of my test games so I thought it might have been an outlier result, but hadn't completed enough test games to be sure.

I know what you mean about Cylons burning through their deck and playing a lot of cards. However, I'm actually glad to hear players make those kinds of comments. I've put a lot of effort into trying to achieve an assymetrical but balanced design for the human and Cylon teams.

My goal is to try to capture the atmosphere of the show and have the humans feel like they constantly have their backs to the wall. I want them to have to carefully manage their dwindling resources in order to survive long enough to achieve their objectives, but still have at least a close to equal chance at victory.

I want the human team to be griiting their teeth and thinking "If I can hang on for one more turn I just might survive this" right before they win a game and I want the Cylon team thinking "if I can just keep the humans from slipping from my grasp for one more turn I'll finally wear them down and overwhelm them" right before they win a game.

I'm confident the rules allow for the results I'm looking for, although some of the scenarios still need some work to achieve the right balance. Although, one consequence of the game design is that I think the learning curve is a little steeper for the human team. You'll probably lose a few games before you learn how to manage your resources properly and know how to respond to the most threatening Cylon cards. Essentially, you need a few games of experience before you'll learn to get the most out of your resources as a human player whereas you can easily pick up on effective Cylon strategies about halfway through your first game.

The humans *can* play pretty aggressively with their cards if they plan their card strategy around making sure Ragnar Anchorage gets into play. You have to hold a Mission Achieved and a Scouting Mission in reserve to protect Ragnar Anhorage until it gets successfully played. It can be a little bit risky because you'll probably lose if you play cards aggressively and then Ragnar Anhorage gets removed from the game by a lucky play of Total Destruction by the Cylons. Once you've played Ragnar Anchorage you have to switch gears and manage your card plays carefully.

Trust me, you've achieved your goal, at least as far as our gaming group goes. It usually is just as you say….the Humans trying to hold out just one more turn, and the Cylons throwing everything they can at the Humans just hoping for that last straw to break them. Very well done on that regard!

This really is a terrific game, and we have a blast playing it!