"Different blasters used by both sides" Topic

Hi all,

I am pulling together some rules for a simple Star Wars infantry combat game and am wondering how to represent the different blaster types – meaning how to differentiate their particular ballistic effects.

The main weapon used by the Empire is the E-11, which I presume could be portrayed much like a modern assault rifle – meaning it can be fired in bursts on the move.

How best, then, to portray the imperials' T-21 (based on the real-world Lewis Gun), the DLT-19 (based on the MG-34) and the DLT-20A (cobbled together from bits of the STG-44, Browning MG, etc.)? Is one of them like an infantry support LMG? Or a sniper rifle?

And for the rebels, is the ubiquitous DH-17 (carried for example by the Tantive's troopers in Ep IV) more or less equivalent to the imperials' E-11, or would the A280 (carried by the commandos on Endor in Ep VI) take that honour?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Redcoat

I don't have a copy, but I believe the best all-purpose gaming reference book is the 2nd edition of the old West End Games Star Wars rpg.
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Either way you can't hit the broadside of a barn with any of them.

They just can't hit heroes. Their blaster work on jawas is very precise.

I'd really like to know where the storm troopers don't hit anything myth comes from… The Tantive 5 assault is rather deadly. Specifically because one side is in cover and the other isn't. They don't get shot at that much in Cloud City and when they do it's again troops assaulting an entrenched enemy who is firing behind the cover of a wall or door way and on the move. On Endor they get ambushed by tiny teddy bears who move through brush higher then they are. The Hoth battle is rather deadly for the the rebels and most of them have cleared out by the time the troops breach the base. Sure you can't hit the heroes but even then they got nicked a few times.

Granted it has been a long time since I have seen the movies and the stormtrooper kill to death ratio is really bad but reasonable given guerrilla tactics and shock factor when shooting at teddy bears.

Rewatch A New Hope, especially the scenes where the group is being chased down the corridors. Imperial shooting is atrocious in this part of the film.

Because of the Force, used passively to distract those endangering users of Force.

Stormtroopers fire on full auto, from the hip, while running, and are consistently near the mark. That puts them well above any real world soldier as far as accuracy.

I always assumed the Tantive IV troopers were carrying a ship board weapon, possibly equivalent to a small SMG. The rifle looking weapons of the Hoth or Endor troopers were more of an assault rifle.
Remember they are a rebellion, not an organized army. They no doubt made use of whatever guns they could get a hold of.

The main weapon used by the Empire is the E-11, which I presume could be portrayed much like a modern assault rifle – meaning it can be fired in bursts on the move.

The movie used sterling SMG's.

All Star Wars guns were modified real guns. IIRC they shot blanks during filming.

The Wookieepedia at starwars.wikia.com will probably give you the in-universe comparisons between the various models.

I don't remember the Stormtroopers firing full auto – IIRC they mostly fired single shots at the heroes rather than hosing them down with fire.

Hmm The force may have actually played a large role in it. Supposedly the Emperor was actually performing a massive battlemeld sort of force move that was controlling all the troops to a small degree. Sort of distracting them from the evil stuff they did and increasing their veil for the empire. Admiral Pellaeon talks about it in one of the books. It's the reason the small rebel fleet destroys the larger imp fleet at endor. Once the emperor died then they all lost focus and became depressed almost. Probably equivalent to Nazi soldiers seeing Hitler executed or something. But you know… through the force :) So the living force could have been manipulating them to miss the heroes specifically because it needed them to fulfill the prophesy that makes no sense and bring balance to the force. AKA swing it from only light side to only dark side to only light side again… cause that makes great balance :)

Wow I think I just thread jacked the OP and confirmed that I have no life in one post…

Thread jacking is what forums are all about. No need to apologize.

The films do a bad job of showing the mental manipulation the Jedi and Sith did on people. How much finger waving can you have going on in a movie? The Emperor mentally wills Anakin to kill Duku when he says in a weird voice "Kill him!"

But stormtroopers are really bad shots and poor drivers, as in Enfor forests. They can fly speeder bikes though a dense forest just fine when looking backward and shooting, but as soon as they look forward they have the reflexes of a slug, fly into trees in the middle of the clearing while screaming for several seconds. Go figure.

The E-11 should probably be seen as the same as modern assault rifle, choosing between semi automatic or single shot. Wookiepedia says the E-11 was fully automatic but I don't remember ever seeing it happen in the films.

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The T-21 is a light repeater which is used as a light anti-armour weapon when operated solo and needs to be static to be used in a machine gun role (with extra batteries).

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The DLT-19 and DLT-20's are designed for long range shooting and are basically sniper riles when a scope is added. I'd make one or two troopers per squad marksmen and give them the choice of taking rifles.

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The A280 is also designed for long range shooting, its main feature is supposedly its armour piercing abilities making it a ideal weapon when the other side is equipped with armour.

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The DH-17 is a semi automatic pistol.

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CorSec is right about the Emperor's use (actually, one of his non-Sith force disciples' use) of Battle Meditation. This is explicitly mentioned in the EU.

However, I've actually rethought the whole thing after reading an article… somewhere.

What are the examples of Stormtrooper incompetence? The capture of the Tantive IV and the Battle of Hoth show the stormtroopers at their best. The remains of the attack on the Jawas suggests the same.

The escape from the Death Star. Looks awful, right? But there's a tracking device attached to their ship. Vader allowed them to escape so he could locate the Rebel Base. His only other real goal was to stop Obi Wan, which he does. The troopers were ordered to fire, but miss. Leia even comments on the suspicious ease of their escape.

Leia, Chewie, Lando, and the droids escaping Cloud City while Luke moved to rescue them. Again, this was staged. Vader's real goal was the lure Luke in, keeping him separate from his friends. The Stormtroopers use volume of fire quite effectively to keep Luke from linking up with them. The Imperials were quite smug about their success… until R2D2 repaired their sabotaged hyperdrive and they escaped.

The ground battle on Endor. This is the only case where the Imperials were genuinely, verifiably incompetent. Any use of Battle Mind was disrupted after the Death Star was destroyed, which was after the shield was brought down, which was after the battle on the ground was lost. You could argue that the battle represented the ebb and flow of Light and Dark in the force as Luke, Vader, and the Emperor fought, but that's different.

The bottom line is that, except for Endor, the only time the Stormtroopers displayed poor marksmanship is when they're missing intentionally as part of a subterfuge. Which when you consider that their blasters were set to kill and the misses were relatively close, is a real statement about their confidence in their accuracy.

The reason the stormtroopers don't use the E-11 on full auto is because they cut down magazines to hide the fact it was a sterling and they only had 3 rounds.

Robert

As for Endor, it's uncertain whether or not the Ewok shamans are Force-sensitive or even outright Force-capable.

I would never underestimate those little cannibalistic drop-bear VCs!

CorSec is right about the Emperor's use (actually, one of his non-Sith force disciples' use) of Battle Meditation. This is explicitly mentioned in the EU.

So the retcon is explicitly mentioned in the non-canon EU?

Best link I could find: link

Though you're right that the canonicity question is a sticky wicket.

I would assume the stormtroopes shot poorly since that is what the drama necessitated; however, a perfectly pausible answer is that it is actually a bit of a challenge to hit someone in close quarters combat.

I was trained by the folks that run the NYPD combat school and they emphasizerd the findings of the NYPD SOP9 study to inform tactics. Here is a bit of an outtake I found on the web:

HIT POTENTIAL IN GUN FIGHTS

The Police Officer's potential for hitting his adversary during armed confrontation has increased over the years and stands at slightly over 25% of the rounds fired. An assailant's skill was 11% in 1979.

In 1990 the overall Police hit potential was 19%. Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:

Less than 3 yards ….. 38%

3 yards to 7 yards .. 11.5%

7 yards to 15 yards .. 9.4%

In 1992 the overall Police hit potential was 17%. Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:

Less than 3 yards ….. 28%

3 yards to 7 yards …. 11%

7 yards to 15 yards . 4.2%

So maybe the Stormtroopers weren't such bad shots?

Lost Pict