"Cavalry Formations as Off-table Assets" Topic

Hello. This is my first Topic on TMP.

Someone (Ratisbon) mentioned a while back that he/she thought that cavalry should be handled like off-table artillery.

I'm assuming that this remark wouldn't apply to light cavalry squadrons supporting infantry formations (which would be employed tactically) but to brigades of dragoons and horse.

In my imagination I see an eight-squadron brigade of horse carrying out an approach of half to several miles, then launching an attack with two-three squadrons over the last half mile; if repulsed they will withdraw behind their second (supporting) line, if successful then the second line will move forward for exploitation.

The rearward line of squadrons (one on either flank) protect the flanks and act as final protection.

What do people think of this and is it of any use during wargaming?

I am not sure if this helps but several games have "reinforcements" where at certain turns additional forces come on the table from the table edge.

Some need to pass a die roll. Others are predetermined or need to reach a certain "victory" condition.

The concept was for tactical games say 1" = 10 yards or even 20 yards. Cavalry was usually kept back from the front line then launched. The idea would be to simply place rather than move them on the board. How to shoot at them needs be worked out but the concept is valid.

Bob Coggins

Hi Haywire

Thanks for your suggestion.

Hi Bob Coggins

It's a great concept. To have massed cavalry loom out in front of you suddenly and advance to attack you must have been shocking. Position batteries must have been able to get some shots in from say half a mile (800m) out but the cavalry could cross that ground reasonably quickly – quick enough to surprise any unprepared infantry and quick enough to ride through any infantry gun canister with impunity.

However, to do this you'd need to work out the width of the gap between friendly formations and whether there was a suitable line of attack from that gap.

Then you'd have to start considering the 'counter-charge' ability of defending cavalry.

Anyway interesting concept.

If the cavalry's appearance is so sudden and shocking because the infantry couldn't see it… then why would we believe that the cavalry commander could see that infantry and charge those specific targets?

It seems odd to me that one side would have such superior vision, coordination, and accuracy, unless we're talking about some special scenario in which one side was blinded by the sun, or a snowstorm, etc.

Otherwise, if I can see you, then you can probably see me.

-

As a practical matter, in any event, Off-table or not, the CAV would have to enter from somewhere, because otherwise players would always want "to simply place" it in the enemy's flank or rear. You'll need some rules for where it can and can't be placed, and why. It had to come from somewhere, before it got placed there.

And once you require it to enter from some fixed place or direction, then you have to trace its path from that point to the point of contact, because some targets are legitimate and others aren't. (You can't charge through or between various units, friendly and enemy, to reach the juicy target much further away, or concealed behind a hill, etc., etc.) Unless you intend to allow the CAV to suddenly appear anywhere, from any direction like an airstrike, then you'll need rules for why it appear somewhere, and not somewhere else.

And then of course, what happens after it charges? Does it stay on the board? You'll have situations where you've got some of your cavalry on the board, operating under one set of rules, and other cavalry off-table, operating under a different set of rules.

For example: my cavalry appeared out of nowhere and broke an enemy infantry unit. Now I'd like to charge again next turn. Except now I'm not invisible or off-table anymore. So you'll still need "normal" cavalry movement and charge rules, in addition to all the special rules for the off-table attacks.

Hi Sam,

My Heavens that's a lot of questions for a concept that is just that, an undeveloped concept.

After all, who on numerous occasions in the past wrote it's a game?

And the game would have to be tactical with a linear scale of no more than 1"=25yards and most likely 1"=20 yards or even less. At this linear scale the scale time of a turn would be a maximum of 15 minutes with an IMP of 8 minutes of movement and or shooting.

Placing cavalry, as off board artillery in WWII, was a concept I was working on when I got ill. This was to be part of a new concept in tactical Napoleonic rules which also incorporated free moves and the placement rather than movement of artillery sections. Craig and I would meet every Saturday to discuss it, but it was never completely thought through and we were nowhere near playtesting. Then Craig died

The basic premise of the rules was to be, gamers could only absolutely control that which their historical counterpart could command and for the most part this would be infantry.

Because the cavalry is beyond absolute control of the gamer he would have to roll for its availability. This, in a small way, addresses the lack of realism of rules which allow gamers to command infantry and cavalry when their historical counterparts did not.

Once placed the cavalry attack would continue to its conclusion. This represents the fact that cavalry is operating at a different speed and, thus, viewed through a different "lens" than the infantry or artillery. Placement is where the gamer wants the cavalry to attack but again to represent the lack of command control the gamer must roll to determine where the attack is delivered.

The first line of squadrons is placed in contact with the enemy (infantry may test for square), the 2nd line is held in reserve off board. After placement the cavalry is subject to fire casualties based on a formula (for instance the further from friendly infantry the greater the number of casualties) dependant on the number of enemy units in the vicinity.

After which, if available, the defender then tests for the availability of cavalry. If available the cavalry combat is determined. If the combat results in a rout the winning side tests for control, etc. If not, both lines bounce out and the attacker has the option of committing the 2nd line.

And so it went.

For artillery, as infantry officers didn't control the placement of artillery gamers would test to place sections and determine their effectiveness which is based on an expected one hit per round or 16 hits in 8 minutes.

Cheers,

Bob Coggins

An interesting topic this. I like to ask "what is the problem" that this is a solution for, then is this a good solution. I think it possibly is a good solution to the lack of depth in a typical 25/28mm game. Cavalry shock like an air raid also makes sense but obviously from a constrained set of start points.

If nothing else keeping cavalry off table stops "gamey" tactics of concentrating all batteries on the enemy guard cavalry as this causes more "points" loss.

6mm and similar with an appropriate ground scale should not need this. Double moves or free moves / repositioning may provide an element of surprise even if all is visible on the table.

Consider also that cavalry tended to operate in column of squadron or half-squadron to move through their own forces (see Waterlooo Letters and paintings by S. Fort and T. Yung). Deployment of a brigade of two or three full regiment into line seems to have been rare enough in a major battle. Consider that a regiment of 600 troopers will requre 300 meters of frontage. The space between Hougoumont and La Haie Sainte is at best 1000 metres, enough at most for three strong regiments or four weak ones.

Kellerman at Quatre Bras is likely to have led his division in column of squadron to seek a narrow breakthrough. Individual squadrons might be directed opportunity targets. Cavalry supporting the infantry have the job of pushing back the attack. this is likely to be small actions, one squadron engaging and another acting in support.

Hesitate joining in but in a similar vein, my design for "Muskets and Shakos" tackles the problem of depth for a tactical game on a three foot wide table.

The defenders third line, or reserve if you will, is kept off the table until summoned.

The attacker starts the game with only his first line on the table. The second line enters automatically but the third line also has to be summoned.

The reserves are summoned by dice roll based on the commander's skill level and if they do appear they appear on the base line ready to act.

Given the cavalry move rates this does allow for exactly the effect that Bob has described. The reaction system mechanics handle, well, enemy reactions to the reserve's approach route.

Finally, as the game is deemed to be only a small part of a larger action going on off table it is possible that friendly or enemy units might appear on the table from other sectors which also adds some fog of war.

This approach would seemingly answer all of TT's questions as well as forcing players to be aware that the table edge is not the end of the world.

Bob Minadeo

"they appear on the base line ready to act."

Then I guess I'm no longer clear on what we're talking about. It sounds as if you're just suggesting that the CAV will appear on the table edge, as any other reinforcement might, and then can charge, using the usual game rules and physical limitations.

If that's what we're talking about, then I can certainly get my head around that.

But if we're talking about "just placing" cavalry into contact with a defender, as if dropping them like an airstrike, then I think that it will require a whole lot of extra rules to prevent them from being used in cheezy or weird ways.

After all, if I have a CAV unit already on-table, then there are a lot of rules in any game, that govern its use:

- Can it charge somebody X-distance away?
- Can it pass in front of, behind, or between, various enemy units, in order to charge a different enemy?
- Can it charge somebody it can't see? (Such as: behind some distant hill?)
- Does it have to approach in a straight line, or can it wheel and swerve a bit, to avoid that marshy ground?
- Can it charge somebody's flank, if it didn't start already facing that flank?

…and so on.

Most of us are accustomed to those sorts of limitations for CAV units, if they're on-table. Thus I suspect most players would expect that those limitations still applied, regardless of how far away the CAV started from, including from off-table.

Donald Featherstone also had an interesting idea regarding cavalry.

Didn't involve being off board at all but still inspirational.

Each time a unit fired it would produce smoke. Each smoke band passed through would allow cavalry a bonus to its movement.

The idea being the smoke would obscure the cavalry's approach giving the defender less time to prepare for their arrival.

Never tried it myself but sounds feasible and involving of not too much handwavium to justify it.

Bob

Years ago (20?) I played an ancients period game where one player (the one who set up the game because enough players hadn't shown up) was able to launch cavalry charges from off table.

Was it realistic for THAT period? IDK.

But as a game it was lousy. I don't believe anyone on the other (my) side enjoyed it. And as best I can recall, I have never played those rules with that player since. It was probably the worst gamin experience I've had. Worse than the time a failed 9 out of 11 morale checks (80% chance of passing each) in one turn and saw my wing of the army evaporate. At least that's a fun story, for everyone else.

Happy Little Trees,

It sounds as if the other players did not know that was possible and/or did not have the option to do so themselves?

If that is so it does sound a terrible thing to spring on others

However had it been a known possibility before hand, that cavalry theoretically could appear from off table and charge, that would change things a bit.

Another possible approach would be a system of using the front line of units to mask the identity and better yet the position also of a second line of units.

In that way the "charge" does not appear from out of the blue but rather requires some preparation on the perpetrator's part.

That is to say that even though the other side may not know it, the cavalry needs to be positioned somewhere near target unit in the first place rather than appearing as if from out of nowhere.

Such a system would probably require an umpire and worse to some, leave many troops off the table while being masked. So for those for whom the look of the game is more important than the mechanics this approach would be a non-starter.

A third method would be by card play. Just as some games may have an un-scouted ground card that allows one side to penalize the other by declaring "bad going" mid game, a card could call for a surprise cavalry charge, double or triple cavalry movement, or the simple placement of a cavalry unit some place on the table where the enemy hadn't seen one before. Playing such a card at the start of one's turn could allow the placement and movement of the cavalry before the other side could react.

The relative rarity of such cards compared to others would serve as part of army characterization in such rules. Something that might be entirely apt for a Plains War game and certainly would cover some circumstances in Napoleonic games.

Bob

A mass cavalry attack is described as one of shock, it clearly needs to be considered as something dramatic.

The two obvious options here are to bring the cavalry on at the baseline and follow the regular rules or to place them at the target and have some mechanism to work out whether the attack has enough momentum at the point of impact.

Maybe "airstrike" is not an ideal comparison but there are mechanisms for this which seem to work in WWII rules, you place the aircraft at the target the take into account air defence (flak and fighters) in the combat resolution. The major difference is a milling mass of cavalry on the terrain getting in the way of everything.

What may also be needed is the concept of breakthrough so that the cavalry column can continue to move and attack within the move distance of a turn rather than stop to engage in a melee phase with limited follow up.

Sounds nice, but there has to be some controls. My game, "Oh God! Anything But a Six." Allows liberal off the board movement. However there is a procedure which is basically this.

1. You can move a group of units off the board if you make your movement roll on a six sided die and the unit is NOT within 1 measure (8") of an enemy unit.").

2. You can move a group of units ONTO the board from "off the board" at any point on the perimeter of the board provided you do not enter within 1 measure of an enemy unit (even a wagon or skirmisher stand) and you make your movement roll on a six sided die.

3. You may NOT leave the Board and Enter the Board on the same turn with any group of unit.

4. The movement roll is entirely the value of the general officer commanding the units. However, NO general officer has a value greater than 5. If you fail the roll to re-enter the board, the troops are "Lost: and out of the fight for the rest of the game.

5. The umpire may at the start of the game declare any board edge off limits to move off from or on to.

6. If you have EXCESS officers with the group, at umpire discretion, if you miss a roll, he may simply remove the officer points and allow a second roll NEXT turn. Example, assume the Unit(s) have Marshall Claude Du Pieces (ability of 5), General Potzunpans, (3) and General Knyppentuck (1). The player wants to move on X units in the group. He rolls a 6. Normally the units would be out of the game, but the umpire allows the player to remove Claude Du Pieces as penalty for the rest of the game and roll on the strength of the two remaining officers NEXT turn. if they get a one to a four then they may re-enter. If they get a 5 or 6, then those officers are removed. From then on the group can only enter on a 1. In the game a 1 always succeeds and a 6 always fails- hence the name "Oh God! Anything but a six!"

as if dropping them like an airstrike

Yes. The modern French army still has a "Hussards parachutistes" regiment (1er RHP) .

Ooooops, sorry :-)

The modern French army still has a "Hussards parachutistes" regiment (1er RHP)

In Napoleonic times – no, wait, revolutionary ones – they jumped from the observation balloons, I suppose.