"Questions: US pioneer platoons in beach assaults" Topic

Pioneer platoons in FOW confuse me. There is descriptive text like the following in the 4th ID Ammunition and Pioneer Platoon:

"The Ammunition & Pioneer Platoon blasts away the enemy's fortifications with a wide assortment of assault gear. They will blast, burn, or smash open a hole in the enemy lines, allowing your rifle platoons to flood in and caption the objective."

When I look at the stats it's just a couple bazookas and some auto rifles -- no "wide assortment of assault gear." I'm not assaulting tanks on the beach, so the tank assault helps me not.

Are these guys able to take out concrete bunkers? Am I missing some special rule with extra explosives they carry?

historicly(lol), they would have pole charges, flammthrowers, bangoloors, satchle charges and all manor of grenades.

BUT THIS IS "F.O.W."

They get to not have reroll successful skill tests to remove obstacles, and if they have a pioneer truck/wagon can remove anti-tank obstacles.

PS DO not confuse the 'comic book' gung ho text with the actual rules- its known as "fluff" text for a reason

historicly(lol), they would have pole charges, flammthrowers, bangoloors, satchle charges and all manor of grenades.

Am I missing some special rule with extra explosives they carry?

Yes, you are!

The 4th ID A&P Platoon is comprised of 7 Pioneer Rifle Teams. The flame throwers at this stage were all allocated to the assault teams!

Pioneer gives them several abilities:
1) they have tank assault 3 representing their grenates and satchel charges.
2) They can clear obstacles (wire and mines) better than infantry: pg 227 (bangalores and other specialised equipment)
3) Pioneer teams can re-roll hits on bunkers in assaults, making them fantastic at knocking them out (pg 221)

They have a variety of other uses as well, which you can find in the index under Pioneer teams!

PS DO not confuse the 'comic book' gung ho text with the actual rules- its known as "fluff" text for a reason

Exactly, and pertinent.
If you will note, there is a lot of blather and fluff.
THE ACTUAL RULE is found under the fluff in italics.

All infantry can do all sorts of things, but they usually fail. Pioneers get to re-roll their failures. Big engineering platoons get an awful lot of re-rolls.
Read the rulebook on engineering tasks, such as clearing minefields, barbed wire, assaulting bunkers, etc and ignore the gung-ho stuff.
With beach assaults…well, try to not get them pinned. Easier said than done, but who said beach assaults were easy? Keep your C-in-C close.

I have Soviets and Yanks. Conscript pioneers are … numerous. Veteran pioneers are fantastic.
One major thing pioneers do is make the guy with tanks think twice about assaulting them.

Yeah, It's FOW non-history.

First off, the A&P platoon had no function in the initial beach landings per say. Everything was reorganized into boat teams. And they had carefully thought out tactics that many people just like to ignore and think of it as a Saving Private Ryan "charge up the beach." Pure Fantasy by people who have never studied it.

If you want to actually know what happened go read " Spearheading D-day."

As others have mentioned, their 'wide assortment of assault gear' is represented by their ability to reroll failed attempts.

And Veteran Pioneers are *evil*, even without flamethrowers.

Thanks all.

Given a choice between a Pioneer Platoon and an Infantry platoon I invariably go for the Pioneer Platoon.

They have fantastic utility, and if you dig them in around an objective they can hold on like Grim Death. Veteran Pioneers are a nightmare, I usually use Mobile AA to blast Dug in Troops off Objectives, but even then, if they go to ground you may as well go home unless you;ve got some FP1+ on the board.

Depending on the scenario you are playing with the 4th I.D., the A&P platoon is mostly redundant. As jgawne mentioned: A&P platoon had no function in the initial beach landings per say. Everything was reorganized into boat teams.

This is represented in FOW by all the boat sections teams having the following special rules to simulate the bangalores, etc, they carried for assaulting fixed obstacles:

"Rifle teams in Boat Sections and Support Sections count as Pioneer teams when attempting to cross or gap Barbed Wire Entanglements and when assaulting Bunkers." (meaning they get a re-roll of the skill test, which is how the fixed obstacles are destroyed)

Once you move beyond the beach, then you may want an A&P squad (with Bazookas) handy to deal with the German tanks coming in from reserves.

Both the Turning Tide and Overlord books have some nice technical information showing the position and equipment carried of each soldier in the boats. You can also see bottom of this page: link