"Miniatures or counters?" Topic

I know….I know…..this is a miniatures forum, but…..

Just curious to what others would do!

I want to game in the world war 2 arena. My choice is home made counters or 6mm GHQ miniatures.

I WILL NOT be making any kind of terrain as I have little time and mainly jut ZERO desire to make terrain. I'm going to use plain old hex based maps.

Obviously it's cheaper to game making counters, but 6mm tanks are only $2 USD a piece.

If money wasn't a HUGE issue, would you just make counters or use miniatures?

Thanks

Counters are always a good choice when trying out a new period and rules. if you like your games then buy miniatures later.

Less than that, if you get some of them from the UK, though the GHQ and Pfc (formerly CinC) are best.

Given that you're playing on a game board, I think I'd just go with the counters.

The metal minis might eventually scratch, and/or otherwise damage your playing surface over time.

I've been pondering the same issue with infantry for 6mm minis gaming.

Tanks will definitely be minis, and infantry would look nicer, though with counters, they are a bit more robust, and I can apply the data right on the top of the counter/base, for easy reference.

I know you can apply similar info to miniatures bases, but there's less space, and if too large it'll detract from the minis, I suspect. If too small, its hard to read.

Still pondering, and may need to do some playtesting/experimenting, and more pondering.

On the plus side, counters save money, which can be put into armor, terrain, rules, etc.

We used to use card painted an "appropriate" colour for infantry in our micro games back in the 70s.
There were no infantry miniatures back then AFAIK.
I ordered some by post once.
Back then you sent your postal order off.
What I got back was coloured card with little stick men drawn on them using a mapping pen.
I wasn't impressed.

Like Andy, I also used to use card infantry markers with micro tanks back in the 1970s. I've still got them!

These days I use toys for both, on hex terrain.

link

There was an ASL module with 2" hexes and they were designed for 6mm GHQ.

Link to photo link

I would be tempted to make some card counters just see how you like the system / era and the switch to mini's if stacking, counter information and turret facings are not an issue.

If I was pure gamer, then the use of counter wouldn't bother me. However I think you may need to comply with what your opponents are using. If playing solo then counters will be fine and also cheaper .

Start with counters and add miniatures over time.

As for turrets, you can use turret facing with 6mm miniatures. Easiest way I have found is to use a toilet wax ring to create a seal between turret and hull (note! get a fresh ring NOT a used one!).

Here is an example, one of these will handle thousands upon thosands of minis. (I've barely made a dent in the thing and I've done hundreds of them).

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I prefer miniatures myself. Maybe it's because they remind me of my toys from when I was a kid? There is just that cool factor of seeing 3d troops and vehicles on the board that counters just can't do.

I played some Axis and Allies miniatures a while ago using my own 15mm miniatures:

Axis and Allies Miniatures is a hybrid that uses miniatures and maps. I like it myself but it's more because of my limited gaming space than philosophical reasons. Some people say that 6mm troops are pretty bland and that counters work just a well, but those people haven't seen GHQ, Angel Barracks, and Baccus miniatures in play.

IMO, miniatures feel better to game with. Afterall, it's the toys that make miniature gaming a different hobby from the old counter/map board games. Nothing wrong with them, but they're a different hobby to me. Miniatures is about collecting the toys, and the right ones mind you, painting them up, and placing them on a gameboard with terrain to bring them to life. Map/counter games just don't really do that no matter how good the graphics are, and there are some really nice looking counter/map games out there. Just look at Lock 'N Load:

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And there is something to be said about getting a complete game for about $65. USD That's troops and terrain too! But they are cardboard troops and paper terrain… just not the same no matter how good the game and the graphics.

So my answer is get the minis.

I would never, err use counters unless it was a board game. I would buy miniatures regardless of whether money was an issue or not!

I like the use of miniatures as "counters" on map boards.

Counters will work just fine. Everything else is going to be flat anyway. With counters, everything should look good.

Memoir '44 suits my WW2 jones, but it is a bit abstract regarding unit types. But it gives a good idea of how a mix of figures and flat terrain can look.
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Tide of Iron is a good game. Hexes and miniatures all in one.

I have used micro armor and GHQ terrain maker hexes to play Panzer Leader or White Star Rising board games. My friends and I have also used printed Panzer Leader style boards with big hexes for the terrain. I prefer the 3d terrain, but did not hate playing with flat hex maps.

I plan on using 3mm PicoArmor/Oddzial Ozmy stuff in the future for our games. You can have multiple vehicles on a base and it should look better that way.

It's not like your building a house or repairing a car. This is a hobby. Do what you enjoy doing. There is no correct way to do anything. Don't worry what other people think. And if they don't like how you do it, then just don't invite them to your house. Simple. Done. :-)

Well, I guess it comes down to having absolutely ZERO desire to make, buy and store all the terrain.

Hex boards fold up so nicely and take up LITTLE space.

Yes, counters, thousands of them will take up WAY less space than hundreds of 6mm minis, but still….those mini's would look kinda cool on the board :)

acctingman

You sound like me 8 years ago. I started out with ASL then moved to Lock and Load but had an itch that wasn't scratched.
I bought figures as I could and used lock and load counters to fill in the rest. I played on boards until I could afford terrain. ( I also swore I would not go overboard and use terrain.) I am very happy I did. ( I still use Kallestra boards.)

I was torn between practicality and desire. I wanted minis but I didn't need them. None of us need minis to play our games. Tgunner summed it up well-- they are cool toys. A hobby at the end of the day is about having fun!

Break in slowly and see if it works for you. It did for me.

Cheers

Joe

Joe, which rules are you using with your minis?

The Colonel

If it's 6mm or counters, you might as well go with the latter because 6mm is so miniscule that you can't really see too much detail anyway.

3mm tanks from Pico Armor are 15 for $4.25 USD!

I'd put miniatures on counters.

With fabric terrain, and a few hills to go underneath, or on top of it, you don't need to take up too much space.

I like boards and counters. For my roleplaying games, sci fi games, and HALO games, I use counters or printed character flats with print map sheets. My ww2 is the only era I use miniatures for. I have never had anyone complain that my print games are ugly or less fun because of the counters / print maps. I just do not want to buy miniatures for games I only play every now and then, much less make terrain for them. Do what you suits your needs best.

You can get lots of top down illustrations at juniorgeneral to make counters, or you can buy the top down sheets that strikenet games produce. Either way you can make yourself some nice counters to use instead of actual miniatures.

You can make great counters and fun playing games with them. I did for years. At the end of the day they are not as cool as miniatures. 3mm miniatures are not as cool as 15mm miniatures which are not as cool as 54mm miniatures.

If I had a castle with unlimited funds and a team of carpenters and painters I would play 54mm battles on historically correct boards for every battle and then throw them away.

I don't and I am not.

We all make compromises that we feel are reasonable. Some of us more than others.

Find your comfort zone based on space, time and money and have fun! My word of advice is that it is a hobby that you will hopefully be doing for a long time and is meant to be enjoyed. Don't forget to factor that in. I am glad I did. Example : I bought a $55 USD mat for my airplane games which I agonized over. ( The competator was $30 USD) I have played over 50 games on that mat. If you had told me that I could have that matt for $1 USD a game I would have bought it in a heartbeat.

Colonel,

For my WW II games I use a variant of TFLs Troops Weapons and Tactics I call Lazy TW&T. I have converted it to hexes and changed the combat routine.
For anyone interested I am currently messing with Sharpe Practice and Pirates. You can find me here:
Platoonforward.blogspot.com

Cheers

Joe