"tow missile launcher manportable?" Topic

I understand the tow launcher is theoretically man portable
so how many loads/breakdown and what kind of weights are we talking about

place to start?

link

My experience is 30 years ago. Unless they have lightened the components it is marginally man portable. It was best utilized in a vehicle mount. Especially at the time you were talking about a three man crew, gunner, AG, and ammo bearer.

Yes, I agree, it was usually mounted on vehicle, like an M274 Mule link , M151 Jeep, HMMMV, etc. … And I believe it is still that way with Light Infanry units today. Like the 82d, 101, etc. … But the M274, M151 are no longer used of course. However yes, you can ground mount it. We trained on the TOW with the launcher on the folding tripod. In certain situations it would be more advantageous
to dismount it in a bunker or entrenched positions.

You can definitely fire it dismounted but to change firing locations would be difficult without vehicular transport

There is generally 4 "loads": a missle, a launcher, the sight, and batteries. so, a four man HMMWV crew could move and set up a dismounted position and have one shot. What we usually did was have a vehicle as close as possible and ran a cable to power the system. Spare missiles were kept in the vehicle. If that was not possible, then two crews would combine to move one complete system with extra batteries, missiles, communications gear, and the normal infantry kit, to the location.

I was in the 82nd from 84-88 and never saw them humped on a road march or cross country. On occasion I would see them dismounted on the tripod never very far from their transport vehicle. Most of the time they remained mounted on the vehicle so the vehicle could fall back to a secondary position after it fired. Infantry were expected to D.I.P. to buy time for the TOW to get away. The LAW, MAW, HAW defense in depth.

I was in the Army as an 11B in an air assault unit. Our D Companies (the guys with the TOWs and Humvees) never manpacked their TOWs (at least that I ever saw, and certainly not on roadmarches with the rest of the battalion).

I know the Marines did, but they also manpack their .50 cals and Mk19s and I suspect it's to make humping suck as much as possible as opposed to any real utility.

In Iraq nothing bigger than an M240 was ever manpacked anywhere that I saw.

I was a Marine grunt for a bit, never heard of the TOWs coming off the CAAT HMMWVs, though I'm sure somewhere, someone was dumb enough to do it.

I can remember the Dragons being humped, as well as, as mentioned above, M2s and Mk19s, but again, that was only to make the humps suck. That is, we only did that in training administrative movements, never for 'real-life' tactical movements.

The anti-armor guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of keeping the TOWs on HMMWVs wasn't just to make life easier, it was a survival mechanism. That is, once fired the TOW gunner presents the biggest target indicator short of a mushroom cloud, and he's only going to sit in that spot long enough to allow the missile to hit the target, then he's backing out of there to get away from that spot, which is a lot easier to do with a vehicle.

Also, we teamed up each TOW with an HMG (M2 or Mk19) on another vehicle. Their job was to light up the target vehicle with .50 cal/40mm rounds so that he'd be distracted enough to not be able to engage the TOW gunner while the missile was in flight.

The only reason to dismount a TOW is for concealment purposes, right? I think our guys figured they'd sacrifice a bit of concealment for mobility, particularly keeping in mind that they were engaging at ~2500m. This is as opposed to us having to wait to <100m with out AT-4s, where concealment was paramount.

My two cents.

V/R,
Jack

If you're using a TOW man-portable something has gone VERY wrong. It's "man portable" the same way those 105mm mountain howitzers in Dien Bien Phu were "man portable". You could theoretically do it, and in practice it's the kind of thing that works once or twice, but don't base doctrine on it, or even train it very much.

You're essentially trading that 3-4 man tow crew for a tank. because there's no way an infantry team can even ABANDON that launcher fast enough to avoid the incoming fire that launcher is sure to draw, let alone break down and hump that thing to the next position.

They're tripod mounted to place in bunkers, pillboxes, sigfried-line style positions, or in vietnam style "firebases" when you want to free up the jeep/humvee for other duties.

Although they didn't have many of them (they mainly used MILAN), UNITA guerrillas in did normally man-pack TOW launchers around the Angolan bush. I've seen a photo of two men carrying the main launcher unit between them, slung from a pole, like killed game.

No doubt, keeping the TOW mounted does make it quicker to "Shoot & Scoot". And short of training, I've very rarely seen them dismounted either … However being able to dismount does give you an option even if you very rarely use it. In the 101, M47s Dragons were always humped, one per squad. But in Mech we could mount the Dragon on the M113 TC's cupola. But I don't think we ever did it … but it did give you a "Shoot & Scoot" option. However an M113 is not a good weapons platoon … It's a taxi on tracks. In most cases in Mech we dismounted the .50 if in a defensive position as well … of course as always it generally depends on the terrain and situation …

I've seen quite a few pictures of TOW launchers dismounted in Afghanistan. Not for lobbing a missile at someone, but to use that big Thermal Imager for surveillance.

I read that TOWs on M-113's (the M-150) were dismountable, since they included a tripod, but as mentioned, I suspect they wouldn't be moved far, and probably only used it that way for ambushes.

I can't imagine someone wanting to move it more than 25 – 50 yds, or so (maybe 100 yds max), if they have the remote control box and wiring to permit that.

I seem to recall rules from the 1970s and 1980s saying you could do that, if desired.

I believe that is true Mako … but fortunately we finally got the M901 ITV. Yes, as I said, Lion … depends on the terrain and situation …

I had the undefinable pleasure of serving as part of a dismount TOW platoon at the National Training Center for half-a-dozen rotations. On almost all those missions, I had the joy of carrying the traversing unit. It can and therefore has been done, albeit in training conditions. I have never heard of anything similar in real-life usage.

Normal operations entailed three TOW systems per squad (with platoons running 30-35 personnel) and an average of six rounds for launcher. The tripod legs were ridiculous to carry because of their size and configuration, though they were not particularly heavy. The TU, mentioned above, was a load in and of itself (and left no room for anything else in a standard rucksack, other than perhaps a poncho liner…though I soon learned a SINGCARS and 3-5 batteries and spare antennas would fit as well). After that came the sight and sundry batteries. Everyone else carried 1-2 rounds and all the other odds and ends that were required.

As a side note, because we were OpFor, the TOWs were called AT-5s and we used ridiculously powerful hand-held spotlights vice night sights (though we did use our NVGs for movement).

A typical mission involved, at dusk/EENT trucking as far forward as possible in deuce-and-a-halfs or 5-tons then dismounting and covering the last 10-20 klicks (usually 12-15) on foot in the dark. The rest of the night was spent digging in and getting ready for BMNT/dawn where we would ideally be placed to support either a MRR (regimental-sized) attack or provide enfilading fires against the BluFor brigade attack.

Some nights we ate the bear, and some nights the bear ate us. Either way, manpacking a TOW is no joke, especially at NTC…

My first tour in Germany 80-82 with 8th ID in the Scout Plt, for 2/13th Inf, one of the missions of our Scout Plt was that due to the lack of clear firing potions, our first potions for two of the M-901's was with the TOW dismounted forward about 200 meters in to a wood line. Fire the 1st two rounds tear down move 100 meters to the left along the wood line, reset up (placing a TOW missile there earlier) fire it then tear down and move 100 meters back to the M-901 and reposition 500 meters to the next potion and continue the engagements fire move fire move. Note, all the dismounted potions were dug in potions with over head cover. Yea we dug those in as well.

Yea, it was hard moving with the TOW missiles, Tripode, TU, MGS (Missile Guidance Set), Day Sight, Night Sight, Launch Tube, Batteries, Coolant Bottles and Comanater.This was with a three man crew for the TOW system. The M-901's drive staying with the vehicle manning the M-60 MG.

We trained to do it many times and we would even go up to our G.D.P. (General Defense Potions) and do it day and night till you could do it blind folded.

I did time on M-901's TOW Jeeps, TOW HUMMWV's and M-3 Bradley's and we trained to fire the TOW both mounted and dismounted.
In these pictures you can see how much stuff you have to carry.

Good early vidio here:
YouTube link

and,
YouTube link

I've often wondered, (readadmired) how much of B*tch this was for Airborne Troops like the 82nd and the Airmobile 101st back then. Even with a Vehicle this is not a light system at all.

The JAVELIN is heavy enough, and it is no where near the weight of a crew served TOW.

It must have been backbreaking in Grenada, Panama and Desert Storm etc.

The heavy components are the TOW missiles, TU (Traversing Unit), MGS (Missile Guidance Set), Day Sight, Night Sight, Batteries.

The Tripod, Launch Tube, Coolant Bottles and Boarsight Collimator are very light in comparison.

And as long as you are not using the night sight (thermal) then you do not need the Batteries, Coolant Bottles and Boarsight Collimator

Now these were the components from my time with it 1980-200. I'm sure with technology they have increased or decreased some of the components.

Here is some good info:
PDF link

Some good early info here, to include its first combat use in Vietnam.
PDF link

Bringing back some memories boys … not all pleasant !

I always suspect that man portable designations are applied by people who will never have to carry the bloody things.

Fatman