"Roleplaying Observations and a Question or Two." Topic

Hey everyone. How's it going? Ran into a problem today! I used to do a DnD group (2nd Ed) which lasted a few months meeting weekly, with a very loose intro type story to get people used to it (no one had played before other than me)We started with three people and they seemed eager and had fun. We expanded to around 7 people towards the end. I was GM, and noticed a few things during this time span.

For one, DM is hard work. =P (special thanks to all DMs)

Two, a lot of my players were bashful/scared to roleplay. I tried encouraging people by addressing them in game with simple, short questions or conversations to try and get them involved but they just collapsed. others flourished and it ended up being that 3 people did almost ALL the RP and the other four ended up as dice rollers. Is that natural for people?

Three, some people just DONT get it or DONT care. Several people just seemed to never pay attention or care what was happening, constantly slowing down the game asking the same stuff over and over. I had one player in particular who wouldn't finish a night without trying to murder or rape something (or both). Worse yet, he had ungodly luck rolling dice and managed to escape town guards and such nearly every time. Eventually I simply skewered his character with a guardsman's spear, which ed him off and he quit playing. How do you normally handle players like this?

Four, I am in the process of starting a much grander campaign, I've written huge amounts of background and NPCs and so forth, with the hopes of inviting the good players from last campaign, and maybe some new ones too. My problem
lies in the fact that I just CANT seem to figure out a way to get everyone at the start point at the same time. The simplest way to explain the start of the campaign is that bad things are happening across the country (seemingly unrelated events of misfortune) and the local seat of power seems unable/unwilling to stop it, which has brought a demand for adventuring sorts to help clear some trouble for those with the coins to pay. (its much more detailed but I dont feel like writing it all.) It all starts for the PC's in a small Village, but im having trouble reasoning why theyd all be here (diverse backgrounds/races as they are)
Normally I leave this up to the PCs in their Character Background, but that can sometimes have sketchy results at best. My question. Should I inform the PCs that they are adventurers and ask them to write their own which leads them here? Or write it for them (which Id rather not do because much of a player's character is influenced by background)
Anyway, thanks all!

> Eventually I simply skewered his character with a guardsman's spear, which Bleeped texted him off and he quit playing. How do you normally handle players like this?

I DON"T invite them to any more games. There is always some joker in every group that either does not actually want to play the game. Or just as bad someone who just does not fit in with the rest of the group (this is worse since the poor fellow wants to fit in but just doesn't).

Yes, being a GM is hard work!

For backgrounds – tell the players what kind of characters you would like in the group and what kind of backgrounds, I've often found that the players are happy to fill in the blanks when given a rough sketch of what is desired for the campaign.

Welcome to the world of Game Mastering. You'll encounter all the problems you've list many, many more times. Don't get frustrated – You have the right idea (the way you handled your deviant shows that).

Give them the story and ask them why they're there. One player will probably have a good idea. If the others are not coming up with anything . build they're backgrounds off the player that did have an idea (they're his companions, family members, comrade from time in the same regiment…).

If no one has anything, just throw them into the adventure and let them back fill the fluff. Holding the game for that kind of thing will lead it to an early grave.

As you do more GMing, write down background blurbs that come to you and put them on index cards. Build a small library of ideas. As other characters are created (in this campaign or the next) offer the player one or two of the cards as an idea to get them started

I suspect that is more common, in larger groups like yours.

As mentioned, try asking them why they're there. If they fail to do that, or the answer is implausible, you could just have a handy dice chart ready, and ask them to roll for the result, if you need to decide why, on the fly.

If not, have your own backstory ready.

Rule #1 is to keep the party small, for multiple reasons. If you're fostering a "you against the players" mentality, four is good. If you're running a "you with the players" game where story is more important than fights, then three is best.

More than four, and you're generating cliques between the players, and you'll see factions crop up. The players should be warned of that when they go in, because losing is not a possibility, but instead a probability.

I've found that you want to be clear with players concerning the style of game, because the ones who won't fit will ruin it for everybody else. Best just to leave them out. (A friend of mine and I have come to an agreement that he doesn't play in my fantasy RPGs because he has some very rigid views about what such a setting entails.)

One of my favourite things about WFRP 2nd edition was the way you could generate a PC's background, family and even name using the random tables. Personally, I'm crap at thinking up stuff like that, so any "cheats" are well appreciated. I realise some people think differently about getting involved with their PC, but for me, it's about what I do in the games rather than what I can write in my spare time.

Similarly, I don't see a problem with saying to players "I've got a solid idea for this campaign, and I'd like the characters to fit with it". Some people might balk at that, but It seems reasonable that the GM shouldn't be the only one forced to compromise. On the other hand, depending on the setting, it might be worth it to just fudge some of the details; does it really matter why they're all there? In our last Iron Kingdoms game, we had two Trollkin fellcallers, a Gobber pistolier, a Cygnaran Warcaster and an elven ranger – all wandering around openly in the middle of a major city. If we were adhering strictly to the background, we'd never have got anything done simply due to all the passers-by staring at us, not to mention intra-party conflicts. However, since none of us were that well-read on the setting, we just … went with it. As for an excuse, the old "guards on a merchant caravan" would probably work, possibly combined with "happened to be at that month's market".

As for RPing; most of my "character interaction" is described in the third person, rather than directly acting it out, as it were. Is that the issue youre players are having, or are they simply unwilling to make any contribution? Perhaps you could start with something more "RP-light" and work up to it?

All excellent suggestions, thankyou guys it means a lot.
I am going to implement several of the suggestions for the opening to the story/backgrounds and see what I like. Again, thank-you all and happy gaming!

I had one player in particular who wouldn't finish a night without trying to murder or rape something (or both).

Folks who find joy in this sort of behavior are usually folks I don't want to know. Like Dynaman said above, I'd simply drop him/her from the group.

For getting the PCs at the start at the same time, you simply say, they know each other or are in the same vocation. Perhaps they are part of the Mayor's posse or something. It works for this sort of scenario where bad things are happening everywhere and the King's resources are too stretched to help a small town such as this one.

For content and getting the players to listen, you need to keep the story simple. DMs seem to give characters way too much credit when it comes to how hard a puzzle is to solve or how complicated a story line is too follow. I am playing in a campaign right now that has been going on for years. I am plenty lost because the story is just too fiddly. I typically don't listen and rely on my fellow gamers to explain it to me. I am a fighter. When it comes to a fight, I listen and stay in the game. At this point, some of our more analytical types tend to slow things down as they over analyze the situation in the middle of combat. You will always have this. The best way to combat this is simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.

The 4th edition DMs Guide has some great advice about handling games and players in the first chapter.

It breaks the players down into stereotypes and how to motivate and direct them.

For the player who wants his character to commit gross evil, you have two choices. You can explain to him that no one else finds this either funny or enjoyable and he has to stop or leave the group. If not, explain to him that the local ruler and religious leaders have declared a kingdom wide manhunt for his character with a substantial bounty, and that the patron deity/saint of the party cleric has placed that individual under a geas to bring the vile disgusting worthless worm of a PC to justice ASAP, and the entire party has been enlisted, with substantial rewards to result, unless he utterly reforms, undergoes a drastic alignment change, and pledges fealty as a novice cleric to the angered god, capeche? If he wants to game the latter scene out, do so, with the cleric and party endowed with a group blessing, protection from evil, and whatever defensive or offensive holy powers you feel appropriate for their roles as warriors of justice for the god in question. His character is naturally under a curse for this fight.

But skewered on a guard's spear works, too.

I did try speaking to him about it, especially after the party complained about him always being chased down or being run out with him since they were seen entering with him. He simply refused to change and had the good fortune of amazing dice rolls to help out. His mistake was going back to a fairly populated settlement he'd already escaped twice, and failed his roll to notice the wanted signs with his name and face on them. The guards had him cornered in the market (he failed all his rolls to notice that too) and by the time they said, "Stop right there criminal scum" ( borrowed that line from Elder Scrolls Oblivion :D ) he instantly ran for it, ducking into an alley which, was covered, and was subsequently skewered with a surprise attack. I felt justified in using deadly force because in real life (faux paus in DnD I know) I doubt the guards would do any less considering he had 2 rapes and one murder in this town alone.

Reminds me of rule #2: do not play a character that the other players would ditch.

Small groups is key. Otherwise, people's minds start wandering.

My group had a running meme of sorts about raping goats. The GM would make people roll for it and run the scenario out. After the first couple of times, people didn't do it any more. In fact, he made the guy break from combat to chase a goat down and he resulted in not getting any loot from the raid since he wasn't there for the fight.

Worse yet, he had ungodly luck rolling dice and managed to escape town guards and such nearly every time.

I sure hope this as his character and not him. That would make for the hardest RPG group I've ever heard of…

Seriously though you did the right thing.

Firstly – Remember the golden rule" Everyone is there to have fun!" that includes the GM..

If you run a game for a group and a player or even two don't fit in, explain to them that they are either causing issues or don't seem to fit in and don't invite them to the next game.

There are always players who like to do extreme things.. some get over the urge, some just aren't "invested" into the game and so you did the right thing.. teach their character that there are consequences.

Players not paying attention is usually partly down to the party size..and/or individuals.. too many players and you get players no focussing as they "wait their turn".. or you just have players who are not committed to the game.

Simple explain to them, next time that unless they do focuss they are spoiling it for them selves and their friends/other players. Don't invite if they don't change their ways!

As for bashful and reluctant players, well you can only lead by example and do as you have done.. involve them directly and encourage. If they don't "get it" or don't wish to roleplay, then well its not a game for them.

And finally.. remember the golden rule!

If you don't enjoy it.. change things till you do, as a GM that has on occasion meant changing players! But its works.

I had one player in particular who wouldn't finish a night without trying to murder or rape something (or both).

Personally, I don't think rape is something that should be roleplayed. I think anyone who needs more detail in this probably has some problems that require psychiatric help.

I once ran a Viking game. After plenty of combat, I decided to sum things up. "You sack the city."

My players didn't need to roleplay or get graphic descriptions of the slaughter and rape of the civilians. They just started adding the gold to their character sheets and getting ready for their next encounter.

Two, a lot of my players were bashful/scared to roleplay. I tried encouraging people by addressing them in game with simple, short questions or conversations to try and get them involved but they just collapsed. others flourished and it ended up being that 3 people did almost ALL the RP and the other four ended up as dice rollers. Is that natural for people?

Yes. Some people enjoy that style of play, others don't. I find myself switching between first- and third-person conversations all the time.

"The old man says, 'Yes, of course, we welcome you to our humble village, dread Vikings.'"

or

"The old man welcomes you to the village."

Depends on my mood and whether or not the player I'm addressing likes to RP with in character speech or not. Doesn't really matter – all fun and games.

Regarding backstory, I take the approach that says backstory is just people write before the actual game begins. It doesn't really need to be more than a single line. I've seen the intro crawl to the original Star Wars cited as the best campaign intro ever: very short, to the point, and clearly draws the lines for players to understand. Then go!

The real story is what happens when the characters interact with the world, not anything complicated or a clever narrative that you've written and pre-determined. So don't take on too much. Things will happen gloriously with random tables. :D

"I rape then murder the woman"

"You understand there will be consequences? Do you wish to withdraw that…"

If he escapes 2 city watchmen, then they WILL learn, and turn up mob handed..

"haha, 7 watchmen. Well I don't care, for I am Level 10!"

"Odd you should say that, because the Commander of the Guard has turned up for such a violent criminal. Before he retired he was level 12…"

There is a law in Britain called 'Joint Enterprise', though usually it is only used for murders. What follows is 100% true. It concerns a young man called 'A'

When A was a teen he looked up to his older brother. This was a problem, because A was (probably still is) a nice kid, academic, thoughtful, helpful. His brother is a Grade A bleep. One Day A is in the car with his brother and a friend of his brother's, when Bro gets a phone call. Bro is owed some drug money, and the phone call is telling him where the debtor is.

They drive there. Bro gets out and takes a baseball bat out of the boot of the car. 'A' follows Bro and the car driver up to the flat. HE DOES NOT ENTER THE ROOM WITH THE DEBTOR IN AT ANY TIME. He is basically stooging around waiting for Bro/Driver.

The prosecution accept A was never in the room. 'A' was convicted of Murder by Joint Enterprise. Life with a 9 year tariff (a MINIMUM of 9 years before being allowed to apply for parole- then it goes to the parole board. When eventually released on licence – thus subject to recall at any point – for the rest of his life).

So, back to the OP:

Explain Joint enterprise to the players. "You didn't disassociate…"