"M113 and stowage - fitted in combat" Topic

I have been let lose on the M113 cadds master (copy of) so was thinking of doing a German M113 as link. Would the vehicle go into battle with the front stoage in place and would it be full or empty?

Wouldn't all that stuff on the glacis prevent the swim vane working??

That said it looks permanent.

I'm thinking the M113 was used more as a transport than an fighting vehicle. They infantry dismounts would probably want to keep their personal stowage on the track.

Or if they did need to use it in a fight I don't know why they would pull the stuff off.

Front stowage would probably be off … but everything would be stowed all over on the outside and possibly inside … I served in 3 M113 Mech Bns(in the ROK, (West) Germany and the desert(NTC). And Commmanded an M113 Co. '87-'89 … We'd dismount every chance it was tactically feasible. But in many cases we had to keep up with the advancing M60 MBTs. That was one of our primary missions. Regardless … the best armor was on the front on the M113 … because that is where the engine is … sadly. That is why the tactic was to dismount in a covered and conceal location and advance dismounted … I preferred moving dismounted at night if at all possible. The M113 is an APC not an IFV … But that rack in the front of that West German M113 may be just an attachment that can be removed. I've never seen anything like it before. Of course you only need the trim vane for swimming. Which normally was not a daily event. Sometimes the trim vane would be proped up and stowage placed behind it. Note the trim vane was plywood. It would not take too much damage in a firefight or incoming FA. Also note, I've seen an M113 or two sink in the Imjun River in the ROK. Fortunatley not in my Bn, but tragic none-the-less … We'd prefer to find another route if at all possible. But sometimes you may have no choice … In the ROK, part of the Imjun was behind our forward base camp (Warrior Base/4P1) and guard posts … Of course our rolling stock (trucks, jeeps, etc.) couldn't swim. So if we couldn't get to any of the 3 near by bridges. We'd have to destroy the rolling stock and swim ourselves …

From all the antennae, the picture looks like some type of command or fire control track. If so, the rack on the front is probably a permanent modification. That means someone made a judgment call to sacrifice swim ability in favor of the modification.

The Germans [since WWII,] have been known to make field modifications to vehicles …

Here are a few ideas:

Mortar Track

M-113G

M-113 Medic

M-113 A1G Green Archer

Hard to find photos of M113's fully loaded. I know when we loaded ours up there was know room inside do to ammo and demolition equipment. All duffle bags rucksacks 5 gal oil cans and water cans were strapped to the roof or the sides.

Just doubble the amount of gear you see here.

These books may help: link

Australian Army 1980's till mid 1990's front of the vehicle: spare track link bolted on groups of two both sides, shovel above engine access, spare road wheel bolted onto trim vane (not all vehicles / units), spare section of eight track link above engine access, tow rope hooked up to a bollard ready for use. Rear of vehicle: two metal jerry cans dvrs side always engine oil, crew commanders side either petrol for cook set / weapon cleaning or transmission oil / diff oil (dependant on the call sign of the vehicle but in any troop, section, HQ this was standardised in the unit), tow rope fitted rolled up as per manufactures stowage – armoured centre only. On top of the vehicle: spare road wheel, racks of 50 and 30 cal ammo liners (later stowed in side under both seats), large metal trunk containing road wheel nuts – track pins – more tools – track pin nuts – pioneer tools under the cargo hatch – crow bar – axe – pick head – handle, canvas tarp cam net both folded net stowed on top canvas engine deck cover other end of the tow rope. tow rope stowed around the T50 turret was another location, local cam poles usually four trees the 3/4 length of the vehicle, three antennas . Sides of the vehicles: nothing kept clean. some units would tap and bolt / washer 16 gauge wire and "criss cross" along the sides so as to stick local cam – branches of vegetation on the sides to break up the oulines. generally the sides were kept clean due to losing stuff between trees. If I had the skill I would dig out the photos and post it, but don't sorry! something to learn this year.
Regards
Allan

That sounds about right for a combat upload C/Dog …

Some Canadian Army M-11# circ 1980s showing stowage

Woe lotsa of stuff. Goimng to be difficult to do the packs in 1:144 but I will have a go at the simple stuff. Thanks

I know that on average, it did not matter if we on M-113's, M-901's, M-2's & M-3 Bradedley's we looked like a Band of Gypseys or some Grapes of Wrath Oakies, with all of the Stuff (equipment, bag's and baggage, camouflage) hanging off of our vehicles. Even when we went to the hard top Hummwv's (No room inside) we had stuff hanging everywhere.

I know these are Bradedley's but there closer to what it's realy like: