"Wars of '1984'" Topic

I get some strange ideas.

Which rule set would you suggest for fighting the wars depicted in Orwell's 1984 ?

Post nuclear – but no nuclear winter – and major population centres largely untouched.

Cold War Commander springs to mind, or maybe WRG 1950-1985

Anything else ?

TIA

Pete

NATO Brigade Commander?
link

So many options:

Cold War Commander
NATO Brigade Commander
FOW Modern – Cold War ( stoppingtheredtide.blogspot.com )
Combined Arms
DirtSide II

I've been in the mood to try out Cold War Commander, so that would probably be my choice at the moment, although I like that DirtSide II has good chemical/nuclear rules ( adverse affects on both sides' morale! ) .

Yep, DirtSide II is another good suggestion.

Depends what level of game you want. DSII has 1 model = 1 vehicle whereas NATO Brigade Commander has one base to a NATO company.

I really don't think 1984 is post nuclear, just a world ground down by decades of conventional (by ww2 standards) warfare. None of three powers actually want to win, war is what defines them and keeps them in power. There might not even be a war at all…

There might not even be a war at all…

We've always been at war with East Asia. Eurasia has always been our ally.

A military industrial complex that doesnt share out the benefits to its peoples.

My favorite-"The choco ration is being raised from fifteen grams to thirteen grams."

The choco ration is being raised from fifteen grams to thirteen grams.

LOL – good stuff. :)

I really don't think 1984 is post nuclear

Winston mentions the "Atomic Wars" in the story, as well as Colchester, England, being the first city hit with an atomic weapon.

So lots of fodder for depressing, radioactive battlefields.

I'd probably stick with Dirtside, since it has rules for CBR warfare and the effect on the troops. I'm not sure if any of the others do or not.

Well, isn't that odd, I don't recall the atomic references at all. Boots on human faces though… Oh well, ignorance is strength.

My impression of 1984 warfare is that it sounded pretty much like late WWII with all sorts of wonder weapons added in.

Thus I would start with some set of Weird WWII featuring superscience and wonder weapons (drop off vampires, werewolves and zombies). Then throw in some more funky gadgets if needed and rename stuff appropriately to match the cultures of the three different warring powers.

Mind it, most of the troops are likely to be pretty fanatically indoctrinated by their totalitarian governments, so make sure to use appropriately extreme morale grades for them. If the rules feature options for political officers, commissars or equivalents, consider using them. And shooting your own troops if they fail morale might also be in order.

Victory conditions should also be rather irrelevant, since the sides involved are not actually interested in winning the war – just keeping it going to focus the attention of population on external threats. So whoever wins an individual battle should be pretty irrelevant, and even the battles themselves should probably be over relatively limited (and largely irrelevant) objectives.

WAR IS PEACE.

If the rules feature options for political officers, commissars or equivalents, consider using them. And shooting your own troops if they fail morale might also be in order.

Ooooh good idea.

This has the potential to be really fun and/or depressing, depending on how it's done. As with most games, the nature of the group will have a lot to do with it.

I'd really like to see this as a campaign game with lots of crazy propaganda flying back and forth between players.

link

SPI's World war 3 has a Orwell 1984 campaign game included. This is high level but the best of its kind!

Greetings

"The choco ration is being raised from fifteen grams to thirteen grams".

"WAR IS PEACE".

Ahhh, I see, so the recent pronouncements do make more sense to me now……..

Ministry of Peace officials told that I should point out that you might also want to try out some other aspects of engagements than the conventional ground action.

For example, sea action between the massive and nigh unsinkable floating fortresses (think about Ogre on the waves) might provide a bit different touch. Of course such actions might end up being largely inconclusive, with both sides fortresses getting moderately damaged until they pull back for repairs to fight another day.

Then there is also aerial warfare, featuring not only aeroplanes but also helicopters.

For a higher level game, how about a rocket bombing board game where the players run production lines of various types of rocket bombs and use them to bomb enemy civilian populations. Progress would not be defined so much by the amount of damage done to enemy (since it would be rather difficult to gain any real advantage anyway), but to keep your own civilian population suitably miserable and filled with hatred of the vile enemy. This game could easily be modified into solo gaming variant: instead of bombing enemy civilians, the gamer needs to rocket bomb his own civilian population to keep them suitably miserable.

As for campaign games, don't forget to include randomly shifting alliances between the various powers that could happen anytime between campaign turns. If there is a game master in charge, he should probably pull one of these to regain balance if it looks like one side is getting into too good or bad situation. Players should of course be reminded that Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

Also for proper atmosphere, game master should take care that any refreshments are carefully rationed according to the careful instructions laid down by Ministry of Plenty.

And for that final touch, bolt in a web cam to your gaming room and broadcast the sessions live so that the Thought Police (or any random web user) can monitor what is happening in the game.

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU

One more thing: if the game uses die modifiers, players should keep in mind that 2+2=5 (or alternatively anything that game master tells it to indicate).

Supposedly the novel was to be called 1948, his publisher thought a war ravaged public would find it too depressing, so changed it into the 'far-future'. The rockets called steamers are akin to V2's and the ministries massive buildings were inspired by Senate house in London.

The novel is really about the war on words and historical revisionism. A grim but brilliant book.

And for that final touch, bolt in a web cam to your gaming room and broadcast the sessions live so that the Thought Police (or any random web user) can monitor what is happening in the game.

That would be a weird/awesome thing to come up on Chatroulette.

We've always been at war with Eurasia. East Asia has always been our ally.

Truer words were never written.

You'll need a map:

link

By the way, what sorts of models are you eyeing for the game?

Ron

P.S. Image from the 1984 film by Michael Radford. link

Well yes, we all know 1984 is actually 1948, so roll out those Centurions, IS IIIs, Pershings etc.

I'd have thought any late WW2 or Korean war rules would be appropriate.

Colchester, England, being the first city hit with an atomic weapon

Only good thing that's happened round here in years.

Don't forget the helicopter gunships!

I suggest the self-produced rules used by the SWAT team for their 1984-demo game circa 1994.

I betrayed my country (most of us did!).

Colchester, England, being the first city hit with an atomic weapon

Only good thing that's happened round here in years.

Several billion pounds of urban renewal and improvements, huh?

I think – and this is, of course, just personal opinion – that technology would have slipped back from 1945. I doubt that any of the combatants put much into R&D, as that is a form of science and independent thought.

I also think that there would have been a big emphasis on cheap, disposable weapons. If I remember the Radford film, there were a few snippets of propaganda films, which showed production lines of Hetzers.

There was also more than a little stereotyping of the opponents, with Eurasia being a "neo-Bolshevik" system (i.e., a caricature of the USSR) and Eastasia being devoted to "Death-worship" or self-obliteration.

So – 1945 Germans vs. 1941 Russians vs. 1944 Japanese…?

Spot on Lion in the Stars.

Actually, this article suggests that their technological base might in computing, might be significantly higher than that of 1945. One might therefore expect rudimentary guided missiles and similar first generation guided weapons.

link

As I said, IIRC, is a passage showing helicopters attacking people.

We could also look at the Spanish Civil War or the Iran/Iraq War for the general mind set of the leaders towards their troops.

A good tech level might be weapons under development by the Nazis.

link

The Eurasians/ East Asians might have similar tech, or rely on reverse engineered copies.

Did anybody else spot that the picture provided above by Coelacanth is actually a snap from an X Factor audition tape? Note the hands in the audience.

I think – and this is, of course, just personal opinion – that technology would have slipped back from 1945. I doubt that any of the combatants put much into R&D, as that is a form of science and independent thought.

I disagree. Wars have driven huge leaps in technology. WW1 saw huge strides in naval and air technologies.

WW2 saw the transition from biplanes to swept-wing jets in 5 years!

Wars have driven huge leaps in technology.

However, in 1984 the interest for technological development is limited by the fact that the combatants might not actually have real interest in winning the war, since it provides a suitable means to keep their populations suitably miserable. So they do not really need technology that would give them superb advantage – rather a technological and military equilibrium with the other sides.

That said, there is some indication that there is research to provide new means of warfare, such as aeroplanes that would need no refuelling. That said, this was probably mentioned in The Book (written by the Party), so take it with a grain of Victory gin.

Gents, many thanks for such a great exchange so far.

Taking all into acount, I am veering towards Ogre as a system that might work for this. After all, the book talks about floating fortresses so mobile land dreadnoughts should be on the cards as well.

Does anyone know if there is an EU based disti for the Ogre products ?

Think "Enemy at the Gate" with chaotic WWI battle lines with a mix of WWII equipment and all through to 1945 would be my guess with the claustrophobic leadership of Stalin/Richard the 3rd or post Menji Japan (take your pick) Rules? Depends on what scale you want. Heck an older version of EE 40K could work (use imperial guard rule and figures if you want) or your dusty WWI figs mixed against WWII Russian hoards, hope these ideas helpM

If any on you are living in the EU, just look around you for ideas on how the thought police operate…try having an open ended discussion about the causes of climate change, for example, with a school child…

Similarly, notice the reluctance to push onto a decisive defeat of Saddam Hussein's Iraq in 1991, and the lack of any decisive outcomes to wars since then…

Are you really certain George Orwell's future hasn't arrived?

I went through the book itself looking for material about warfare, and there is quite a lot of it in the section of The Book titled "War is Peace". This is mostly about the overall goals of perpetual war, but there is also a paragraph or two about technical progress – or lack of it, since apparently there has not been much progress in the last thirty years or so.

Apparently the biggest leaps have been taken in sea warfare, where floating fortresses have replaced other surface craft, but submarines and torpedoes are still in use.

Air warfare has seen introduction of helicopters (apparently also used for dropping bombs), bombers armed with self-propelled and guided munitions (ie. missiles), rocket planes (jets), and rocket bombs.

Ground warfare seems to have been the one least affected, with tanks, rifles and hand grenades still in use. Submachineguns seem to feature heavily in Oceanian propaganda (used both by Oceanian and Eurasian troops), so they probably also appear in actual combat use.

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The more I keep thinking about it, the more it starts feeling like Korean war (technology level, limited objectives), with some weird WWII gadgets thrown in.

Think Nazis in 1948-50, as I said before.