"Does Tango01 participate in threads?" Topic

If we call them "Frothers," what to do they call us?

Frothers (and WD3) call us "PMT". Actually, to be accurate, they call themselves PMT, as many of them are also members here anyway.

I'd like to know why complaining about a problem with the posting behaviour of an individual is conflated to being a personal attack on that person? Are people not allowed to discuss what they see as problem behaviour? And if quite a lot of them see it as problem behaviour, does that have to be conflated to being a mob attack?

OK, so the behaviour in question is not seen as a problem by all here – but it IS a problem for many others, evident from the many reasoned complaints from a wide range of TMPers over the last few days. And unfortunately a problem for many is really a problem for all, no matter what view you take, because if left to fester it'll have indirect effects on everybody.

Adding to my puzzlement on why these complaints about behaviour are seen as personally attacking the poster (apart from the few who, yes, have indeed made clear personal attacks on him) is that many of the complaints have been very polite and constructive in suggesting workable answers that would suit everyone, including Tango himself.

Adding to my puzzlement on why these complaints about behaviour are seen as personally attacking the poster (apart from the few who, yes, have indeed made clear personal attacks on him) is that many of the complaints have been very polite and constructive in suggesting workable answers that would suit everyone, including Tango himself.

And Tango has responded to these threads. And Bill hasn't changed the stifle functionality. And people continue to complain. And these threads continue to appear. And nothing changes.

;-)

… but, don't forget, dead horses start to fester and rot if not dealt with.

I've always liked mine better . Robert

I'm no Frother, I've been a member and regular poster on this site for well over ten years. And I am tired of Tanglo clogging up the front page with current events, links to political commentary, and pop culture trivia. When he posts stuff about actual miniatures, that is fine, and he frequently posts stuff that is really neat and I enjoy looking at. But the huge quantity of non-miniatures stuff he posts EVERY DAY has got to stop.

Except that 'non-miniatures' seems to be a matter of perspective.

Many modern warfare gamers have voiced appreciation for his info on current developments.

Imagine that, people who have a different approach to gaming than you do.
Kinda makes you wish there was a gathering place for all these different outlooks and ways of gaming… where folks could talk and be exposed to other ways of thinking, in an atmosphere of tolerance.

Or not.

@JJ

Frothers is different to WD3.
I just thought you'd like to look into what is a pretty good wargames' forum.

People do sometimes seem to think that TMP is a purely miniatures site. So why is there a Sports section, for instance? Chinese armed services are surely more relevant than the Canes? I mean, to be perfectly honest I don't really know who the Canes are, but I have a fair idea who the Chinese are, and their military would seem to be imporat.

I'm with Space Monkey….

Have a look at the links I posted in the other recent Tango thread. Tango has participated in a number of Falklands threads and his contribution, from his perspective as a former Argentine platoon commander, those has been invaluable.

And they are excellent. But were not talking about when Tango is on target, no one I believe has said he hasn't made some valuable posts.

Just answering the question (and earned an extra two stifles – how ing pathetic).

I've read those Falklands threads and subscribe what R Mark Davies said (not that that was necessary). I guess Tango keeps his opinion, as he knows there is people here who has excellent info on many subjects. I do lurk around much, and appreciate that he brings so many issues to our attention. I frankly don't worry a bit about if he posts or not, there's plenty of people who already do in every thread including most of those posted by Tango.

I agree with Arteis. I have been a TMP supporting member for ten years this week. I will not be renewing my supporting membership for this and a number of other reasons… Tango01 is not the main reason but he is a contributing factor.

Good, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

I am tired of all the holier than thou s throwing a fit over a guy posting on the page.

He's not leveling any personal attacks, lots of people find value in his posts, and he's one of the nicest guys on the board.

I have gotten more value from Tango's posts in the last year than all of you whiners combined in the last decade of being a member (paid and unpaid).

The fact that you keep hammering at this brands you as antisocial bullies in my mind and .

This is just like all the previous occasions when people select a single person and hammer at them (and some of the same complainers are involved).

It is mean-spirited bullying.

Feel free to Slam me next, I'm not as nice as Armand.

Also, let's call him by his name. Tango is a label and safer to attack.

Armand is person.

it was just an alternative board, not here that had been brought up earlier in the various threads regarding mocking TMP.

Historically I have found frothers to be more "edgy" than TMP and thus my preference to spend more board time here.

Pardon me my friend Gattamala for answer before my cousin, we are relatives from my mother part.
My grandfather was a James from London, same family of 138SquadronRAF.
He have chequed that in the past.
I have many relatives in Europe (France-Italy-Spain-Germany-Ireland, etc)because my grand-grand and grandfathers (grand-uncles too) who came to Argentina were all Europeans born.
Thank's for ask.

Amicalement
Armand

Funny, I kinda like Frothers…

Just Jack…..yep my yawn was unhelpful. But after a while the constant threads having a dig at Armand are just so damn tedious a yawn seemed to sum it up perfectly. To be honest I can see where both sides are coming from, but it's damn right rude and ignorant to continually have a go at a member in this way. The guy isn't breaking any rules, the editor doesn't feel a need to limit his posts, so why can't people accept that?
If you disagree with the way he posts then why not take it up with the editor in a pm rather than these public witch hunts? Sure you can keep posting these threads as is your 'right', but why be so darn rude?

No mention my friend.

Amicalement
Armand

Kudos for Allen57 for having the minerals to admit to regretting starting this thread, apologies being VERY rare on TMP. Good work, fella.

John

Oh, and Armand, post all you like, if I like the posts, I read them. If they don't interest me, I don't bother reading them.
Keep up the good work, Mr Tango!

John

these threads get very heated. me not excepted!!! i got heated once in talking tango, because like many other people i am annoyed by the way he posts. i got timed out for it. i think one thing to do is just sit back and reflect. over the past few decades there have been some rough and ready rules developed for operating on the net, called netiquette. are these official? no. but they come from thousands of forums over decades and many forums require to respect them to some degree.

they include things like not posting the same topics other folks are already talking about, first checking to see if a thread on that topic has already been posted. also not posting what's called flame bait, something that is bound to draw poltiical discussion which will result in hard feelings. also some restraint, so not starting too many threads all at once.

notice these guidelines don't say anything about how valuable or appreciated the threads are. it's just that lots of people read these forums, and lots of people contribute to them, so its like lots of people using the highways at the same time. there has to be some way to regulate how we behave on the highway. there are laws but there's also common courtesy.

but it does not seem that tango wants to work the way ive just described, even people who love his threads would have to agree, and it does not seem that the management here wants to make him do so. so what else is there to say, i guess???

I cannot really see why people get so upset over Tango's posts; they are often interesting and on topics that I, and I suspect many others, would otherwise miss.

I do not really care if he is not a frequent participant in other threads; he does not have to be. We all have our own patterns of posting and participation and I find it sad that people cannot tolerate that someone is different from their own expectation.

Jurgen

@Arteis – Sorry Roly, have to disagree with you on this one. The only issue I have been able to actually discern here is that people have a problem with Armand's posts forcing others off the front page after a couple of days.

Whether he posts or not that seems to happen. Most news sites drop stories off the front page in hours. Here one can have up to 200 posts showing depending how one configures their TMP profile.

Then there is the option of going directly to the message boards or using the search facility (unless like one chap told me that the search facility was no good if you wanted to search for something that you didn't know existed on the off chance that said random post may interest you).

PS – The Spanish Guerrillas are undercoated and ready for painting next week.

I am with R Mark and Flectarn and in darn fine company too. We few we happy few………. LOL

I don't even see why there is a problem to begin with. Much if what Tango posts isn't relevant to me but a lot of his stuff is. The ones I'm not interested in I don't read.

TMP would not be the same without him and not anywhere near as interesting.

Tango!

Keep doin' that voodoo that you do so well!

Charlie

3 more stifles in as many days…

All 'cause of s against "Armand"…

Keep dem stifles comin' anti-Tangos! I'll welcome every one of them!

Tango, YOU *and* OFM are the BEST of TMP!

GROOVE ON!

(your antagonists are like Rhinos with s… Short sighted, angry/horny and wif'out any way to solve their own problem(s))

Charlie

To answer the question directly, "Frothers" are members of Frothers Unite- UK!

frothersunite.com

Much like we are TMPers.

This is just ridiculous. Armand hurts no one. As so many others have said, don't like him (or his posts), don't read them. If you want his numerous threads stopped, then let's be consistent and stop a whole batch of other boards and threads that offend people, especially those posted by mostly our American brethren which at times are completely offensive to the non-American membership of this board (though in the spirit of the times, some at least of those I have in mind would regard that as badge of honour). The rubbish posted against the assistant editors a few weeks ago is a perfect case in point.

Hi Brian! I must respectfully disagree with your disagreement with me ;-)

Most news sites drop stories off the front page in hours. Here one can have up to 200 posts showing depending how one configures their TMP profile.

This isn't only a news site, but an ongoing discussion site. News becomes stale very fast so there is no problem if it quickly disappears. However, in a discussion you should be able to easily return to threads of interest for more than a couple of days.

The limit of 200 posts on the homepage does not take long to chew through (in my case about two days). Once pushed off the main page, unless I purposely remember which board a particular topic was in, it is to all intents and purposes gone forever.

Maybe the issue is that I can't figure out how to stop boards that I have no interest in from appearing on my home page and thus more quickly use up my 200 posts. If only I could get rid of the Moderns boards, for instance (which seem to be one of the worst affected areas), I could claw back probably another day's worth of other postings to stay on my home page.

BTW, great to hear those guerillas are coming along – can't wait to see them on your blog.

Since my above posting, I've just learned how to turn off the Modern boards. Works a treat – a huge amount of the carpet-bombing has disappeared. Yeah!!!!

Interesting Arteis. A lot of the anti-Tango feelings seem to be generated by the 'pushing off the front page' issue. As you say a lot of people seem to have trouble finding discussions amongst the various boards. I would say that is probably a lot to do with their own lack of computer/website prowess. If you have made a comment on a thread you can so a simple search by your own username and it will bring up all the threads you have commented on.
I also feel that this obsession with the frontpage is a bit crazy. If Tango didn't post at all the items would still 'disappear' pretty quickly.
The idea of limiting a persons posting is ridiculous as it would not solve this problem anyway. If half the membership posted one more topic every day then it would easily surpass Armand's contributions.
So a large part of the issue also lies with the website design. As I understand it the next version of the site is being worked on, hence the hiring of new staff…let's not even go there!
It may well be that the next version of TMP will have a better way of keeping track of threads, e.g. by being able to flag thread of interest, or better search engine.
Maybe a bit of patience on everyone's part would be useful.

I did the same thing Arteis.

@Artaxerxes: No one is suggesting that he be forced to stop posting. What people have suggested is a change to the stifle system that blocks the entire post from a user including the title on the front page.

I think everyone needs to get a grip of themselves (as we say in Northern Ireland).

No matter what side of this you are on, to see the number of stifles being applied just because you don't agree with the other guy's opinion is completely insane. All you are doing is blocking posts and comments from other people who, once this storm-in-a-teacup has settled down, will probably post something that would be of interest to you.

My own stifle count has went from nine to twenty two… over this!!? And what did I say which was so offensive to eleven TMP members, that they feel they can no longer endure my comments appearing on a thread? Are we really so easily offended these days, that for another person to even suggest they may not agree with us just can't be tolerated?

If people get this upset on a forum about playing with toys, I shudder to think what would happen if they ever run into a major issue in the real world.

Agreed, well put.

Top post by Only Warlock. Pity he got dawghoused for it, although I understand why. Them's the rules.

Armand is a top guy. Don't his detractors have any real problems to get grouchy about?

"I cannot really see why people get so upset over Tango's posts;" -- it's interesting how people talk past each other in these internet debates. lots of people have been very, very specific about what upsets them about his postings. you might not agree but you should at least be able to SEE it.

also "Don't his detractors have any real problems to get grouchy about?" this gets said all the time. in other words, 'something that upsets you doesn't bother me so you are not allowed to be upset about it'

disagreeing on the internet is fun wheeee!

Agreed, but in my opinion, the DH'ing over this compared to other issues appears to be selective.

Oh I can SEE it, I just cannot, cannot, see how some people can get SOOO nasty about it. Really, is it worth all this venom, and bile?

John

Have any of you Tango-bashing s paused for a minute to consider that maybe Tango doesn't add to existing posts very much because English is not his mother tongue?

Perhaps that is why he feels more comfortable offering links instead. That, and the fact that he is extremely good at it. I have to say that most of the links Tango gives us are simply superb. I spend a lot of time researching my hobby but I never seem to be able to find the golden nuggets that Tango does.

And Tango DOES contribute to existing threads from time to time, particularly on the Napoleonic boards. As an example off the top of my head, he made an excellent contribution to a thread that I started not very long ago;
TMP link

people aren't s because they disagree with you…..

'Oh I can SEE it, I just cannot, cannot, see how some people can get SOOO nasty about it. Really, is it worth all this venom, and bile?'

-- put the shoe on the other foot and think about it a little. you go to the movies at a movie theather you really like a lot. lately there's always the same guy though, who talks through the movie. this cracks some people up. they love it and applaud at his golden nuggets of humor! they say, i never would have thought of that!!! thank you!!! you make the movie ten time better!!! but you, man, it irritates you. you complain to the management. nothing happens. you tell him to be quiet. he's not. you tell him again and the people who like his jokes call you a twit. they tell you its just amovie and for the life of them they cant see why you get so worked up about it. they tell you there's more important things to worry about. get a life already they say.

I'll repeat, and maybe you should think about it a little.

'Oh I can SEE it, I just cannot, cannot, see how some people can get SOOO nasty about it. Really, is it worth all this venom, and bile?'

I think a major dose, of 'whats actually important' is needed here,

TMP link

And the cinema is a bogus point, if someone talks through a film, your stuck with it, we are dealing with the silent, written word, Armand only impacts on 'Your TMP hobby' as much as you let him.

So, once more, IS IT WORTH ALL THIS VENOM, AND BILE? really?
if you really think its that important, I see no point in us trying to share our viewpoints, as they will never meet. I think this whole thing is trivial, in the extreme, whereas you are acting like Armand broke into your house on Christmas day, and urinated on your kids presents.

*edit* we do agree on one thing, the last sentence of your post.

John

People are complaining about a behaviour that affects the way they interact with TMP. Is that really 'bile' and 'venom'?

The majority of people here (on both sides) are putting their respective cases reasonably, with no bile or venom.

However, I do grant that there has been a little bile and venom from a few people on both sides who have made personal attacks: the 'Tango-haters' and the 'Complainant-haters'.

What IS happening is that the problem itself is festering. Doing nothing will not make this go away.

I think we'll have to agree to differ, I think there have been some really quite unpleasant things written on this, and other threads, over this whole affair.
I don't, however, wish to be associated with this anymore, I'm almost embarrassed to be part of something so inconsequential.
So, as they say on Dragons Den, 'and for that reason……I'm out'

John

I agree John – enough already.

Though Tango seems to be tough enough to stand up to them.

Anyone who has had Royal Marines shoot at them and not have every lunch they've ever had drop out at once is probably tough enough to not care what some people on t'internet think.