"Star Trek space battles- What do you recommend?" Topic

What game systems are out there and what do you like about them? What would you recommend?

Full Thrust. It's a classic. And it's free.

Full Thrust is always good, if you want a bit more detail try Colonial Battlefleet, the shield mechanism, facings and need to recharge is more akin to trek than FT's always on until they fail die modifier.

Robert

The only Full Thrust rules download I could find online is here:

link

The one at Ground Zero Games' website doesn't appear to be functional at present.

Ron

It depends on what you want and desire out of a Star Trek battle.

Star Fleet Battles is always what leaps to mind. I've never played it but I'd love to try.
It has a reputation for having grown into a ridiculously huge ponderous set of rules expansions… but I've heard the original basic game isn't so bad… and there are newer, related games like Federation Commander that seem a lot easier to jump into.

Full Thrust is my favorite generic space battles game but I don't think it's inherently Trek flavored… though there are tweaks for that.

I'm really enjoying Federation Commander at the moment – it gives a very good Star Trek feel to games.

Mike

You'll find the original Full Thrust and other rules from GZG here:
link

I'm really enjoying Federation Commander at the moment – it gives a very good Star Trek feel to games.

Yeah, I think if I were really into Star Trek that's where I'd start.

I'm not looking for something overly complicated. Something where you can have more combat than maneuvering.

I'm not looking for something overly complicated. Something where you can have more combat than maneuvering.

Yup. You should definitely take a look at FT. FT Lite (on the same page linked above) is even simpler.

I just picture ST battles as slugfests. There's never really any chasing. It's more hammering each other into submission. Kind of like age of sail in space.

Micromachines ships, and/or the larger, Johnny Lightning ones, if you are just doing smaller battles, or have a larger budget.

Kind of like age of sail in space.

Have you been reading Honor Harrington?

Klingon Armada Nova Edition is what I am using. Convention friendly, allows for 20 ship per side battles with enough people, easy to learn and play.

If you want to play a classic ship to ship game (where each player commands one or two ships… Federation Commander.

If you want fleet sized actions, then FT or Klingon Armada might be a better choice.

Starfight, simple rules, but has really easy energy management for shields etc. Number of expansions covering not Klingons, Romulans and Borg.
link

Would handle single ships to fleets.

The links for GZG are not working.

Star Fleet Battles. just kidding. But ADB does put out a much simplified game for ship-to-ship action.

Just noticed Dervel's post. Yes, I think Fed Cdr was the game I was thinking of.

Starmada:Admiralty edition, including the Star Fleet versions of Klingon Armada and Romulan Armada if you want less record keeping and more fighting. Majestic 12 games.

I find it kind of interesting that you think of ST combat that way. I actually think of it in the completely opposite way, where in ToS there was a lot of maneuvering and trying to outwit the opponent rather than bashing head on.

Give the old FASA Star Trek Tactical Combat Simulator a try.

Ebay listing for one (nothing to do with me and a bit pricey, for that kind of price I might be tempted to sell mine – only tempted mind)
auction

and a website with ship stats.
home.comcast.net/~ststcsolda

The links for GZG are not working.

I couldn't get them to go, either; but the link I posted earlier works fine (I used it today).

link

It links to a PDF of Full Thrust: Cross Dimensions, in either A4 or U.S. Letter size.

Ron

Once again, what do you want?

Captain's Duel: Kirk faces off against a Klingon, or maybe a small squadron of Federation ships face off against a small squadron of Romulans, etc.. Starfleet Battles/Federation Commander is the way to go. Expect lots of detailed decision making— how much energy to allocate to shields, how much to phasers, etc., etc..

Commodore's Level: A small fleet of ships against another small fleet (about a dozen per side): Full Thrust, but you'll want to seek out the Star Trek mods people have done, as Full Thrust isn't really a Trek-feel game. Some detail— hits are tracked against different systems, orders are written out each turn— but not nearly as much as SFB. Ship orientation is very much a factor (firing arcs, etc.) Starmada is also in this range of detail.

Rear Admiral's Level: You command a mid-sized fleet (about two-three dozen ships). Still some hit tracking, but not as detailed as the above. Ship orientation is still a factor. A Sky Full of Ships (ASFOS) is in this realm.

Star Admiral's Level: You command a huge fleet of several dozen ships. Damage is abstracted to battle effects on ships (can they still move and shoot, and how well?), and you don't care how they're oriented as long as they're in range. Stuff blows up a lot, and tracking is minimal. Generic Outlandishly Big Spacefleets (GOBS) is the game for you.

And, of course, if you want a simpler Captain's Duel/low level squadron game, WizKid's Star Trek: Attack Wing is currently popular. (Uses essentially the same game engine as FFG's Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures Game.)

I'm the creator of GOBS, so it's naturally my favorite. It's meant to be fast, simple, and fun. And, of course, generic, so it fits well with the Star Trek mythos. It's also free: thegobspage.com

The links for GZG are not working.

Works for me:
link

Try a Google search for "gzg"

I'm thinking of 6 ships per side. I tried Attack Wing, but I feel the mechanics work better for X-wing. I don't like games where you spend an hour maneuvering around to get a shot in and find it does minimal damage.

6 ships a side…
So that rules out Star Fleet Battles.
Moves it closer to something like Full Thrust with tweaks.

I second Colonial Battlefleet for that scope.

Has anyone thought of StarBlazers Fleet Battle System?

A friend of mine has converted the Fasa Star Trek minis for use with the StarBlazers rules.

We have done a couple of games so far and it worked pretty good.

I find it telling that no one suggested A Call to Arms Star Fleet.

It has had its teething problems, but at its heart it is a good fleet sized game. I'd give it a few months for the relaunch then check it out. ADB has taken greater control from Mongoose and is revamping the original.

I purchased Federation Commander…and regretted it. It may be a simplified version of Star Fleet Battles, but still way more complicated to handle more than a couple of ships per side in a reasonable amount of time. I did later get the Starmada version and thought that was pretty good – although the version I bought was tied to hex map play, which may be a turn-off for some.

Fasas starshipcombat simulator for squadron actions because there is enough detail in regards to power/shield allocation and weaponry as well as hit location.They released a ship construction system for the adventurous types and expansions that helped to round things out.Starfleetbattles,theDesigners edition with its 3 expansion booklets was the very playable version.The Commanders and current edition are just to ponderous because every ship has subvariants ranging from cargo pods,diplomatic service and most likely laundry and janitorial services.

ACTA SF
Is a limbo game ATM.
New rules coming next year, so not a great place to start other than grabbing figures from those jumping ship.

For the OP
What type game are you looking for,
One that fits the series, movies, DS9's War?

SFB is based on all out war, but running lots large ships can be taxing. They deal with the all the details of running a starship. With the right folks this can be a great game.
Original Series expanded but never leaves that time frame.

We played 3 ships to a person, and was fun.

The FASA Star Trek Combat Sim, was a good game, and covers into the movies some I think.
Still has details and a bit of management.

Federation Commander is a distilled version of SFB, not played but watched folks at con play 5 to 7 ships per person.

A Call to Arms Star Fleet, is a try at distilling FC to that system.
Fast play large battles seem possible, but it is in flux ATM, and if you like the idea of SFB may be too abstract.
If you just want to blow ships up and not worry about the source materials might be a good way to go.

Ask on the boards at SFB may find some folks willing to part cheap as the Star Fleet side is lacking.

A set of rules for gaming is always hard to pin down.

At least for me, I started with full plot SFB at age 15.
So rules that just have the ships crash into each other leave me flat.

I like the big ships to feel like it, no turning on a dime.
Also I prefer scenarios instead of even points cost.

Two reasons.
First the games are just more fun to me.
Second so few rulesets use math to build the points and seem to just grab numbers from the depths of space.

The grail for wargaming is to find a system that has enough depth and speed for your play style.

If it is too light you find your adding in house rules, too heavy and folks will not play.

Of course with Star Trek, the owners of the IP want buckets of money so a full game based on the movies is unlikely.

I looked at Attack Wing ST, but for the cost of the ships it seemed out of line.
The Star Wars version has so much better models, and it plays well as a fighter based game.

Good luck please let us know what you settle on.

Still looking myself, ACTA may get my look when the new rules come out. But it needs to be able to grow a bit.

I have done some star trek ship stats for FT here. link

For 6 ships per side, it would certainly be my bet.

I've tried Star Fleet Battles, A Call to Arms and Starmada Admiral edition before deciding on Starmada Nova edition. Star Fleet Battles is a great game but way too complex for casual play.

A Call to Arms was very 40K in the "gotcha" rules plus play with more than a few ships and the paperwork started to mount up – and the fact that a Federation CA was easily manhandled by a Klingon D-7… A close fight, sure, but in every game I have played the Fed CA is damn near hapless.

Starmada Admiral was very close and I probably could have stayed with it had Nova not come out. I love the pre-plotting of movement and declaring / simultaneous fires aspects of the game. I had a harder time wrapping my head around movement though and the "natural" way items flowed through space rather than "flew" (ships maintain energy state via their thrust rating but once that speed, they continue at it with their thrust adding to it, increasingly making it harder to even turn as they zip along faster and faster). Great if you're a NASA engineer, not so great if you're an average gamer just looking to push some starships around.

Starmada Nova with Klingon and Romulan Armada books has fast play, easy to remember movement options, fighers and carriers (which ACTA does not have) and you spend your time thinking about the battle over micromanaging everyone's job (why do we hate micromanager bosses at work but LOVE to play them in games). There are tactical decisions to make and tons of small areas where you can customize the game to your own tastes.

Yes, it is supposed to be played on a hex grid but the rules also offer, well, rules on moving on hexless maps, so the best of both worlds is easily covered.

That has been my experience and I would love to see ADB "fix" ACTA and make it it's own game rather than a copy and paste job. There is a need for it and I did really want it to be the "one".
Larry

Is it possible to get the Attack Wing card stats without buying the game or models? Guessing somewhere on the interweb has them!

Norrins, here is a database of the Attack Wing cards and stats:

trek.mywargame.com

I just played Attack Wing (with svsavory no less) for the first time this weekend. We did a duel with Picard and Enterprise versus a Romulan warbird.

I have to say I really enjoyed the game – felt like it gave fairly cinematic results true to the series. After one particularly bad roll by Scott, I could only reply "and here's where the writers build tension by having you miss at close range". The critical hit results were evocative of the series ("warp core breach?…uh oh.)

I also enjoyed the ability to have the named captains bring their unique talents to commanding their ships. That was important to me in regular naval actions. And the ability to upgrade the ships with heroic crew or tech and weapons gave each ship its own character.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Thanks for the Attack Wing link.

It seems that ADB is going to revamp Call to Arms.

I've tried WizKids Star Trek Fleet Captains and it's pretty good:
link

You get lots of ships and cards and stuff and it has a good feel to it.

The problem I have with Attack Wing is the hidden movement. If your enemy is turning left, you turn and follow. Attack wing has you plan out a movement that can have you do something that is completely ridiculous like turn left when you should have turned right.

Needs a 'tailing' mod that lets you adjust your action and follow your opponent, doesn't it?

The problem I have with Attack Wing is the hidden movement. If your enemy is turning left, you turn and follow. Attack wing has you plan out a movement that can have you do something that is completely ridiculous like turn left when you should have turned right.

And you know which way your opponent is going to turn how, exactly?
Star Trek ships (and Star Wars ships for that matter) aren't airplanes. They can go anyway they like, and you can't watch the ailerons and rudder to see which way that will be. He's guessing in the instance and you're guessing in the instance— and sometimes, whoops, you guess wrong.

If it were a realistic setting, I'd grant you the possibility. But in the Trekverse, that bet is off.

SFB is *very* detail-heavy in a major shooting war. In fact, I honestly think it has the player making far too many decisions, at least compared to what the Captains of my subs made during tactical weapons exercises.

Also, SFB is written by an engineer, so every possible rules interaction has been written down specifically.

It's cool if you have a photographic memory and remember all the rules. But if you DON'T have a near-photographic memory, I don't think you'd enjoy the game. I certainly didn't enjoy playing a game against someone who could do MY energy allocation in his head…

I haven't played the other official versions, but Federation Commander is supposed to be much lighter than SFB. I have been meaning to give it a chance.

Otherwise, I'd try Full Thrust.

If you don't mind doing a good bit of legwork ahead of time, Jovian Chronicles by Dream Pod 9 might work for you. JC has a pretty comprehensive ship design system, and generally needs very little work during play. Making a good spreadsheet will make your ship designing much less work. Also, JC rules are cheap (PDF copies). You do need both the Jovian Chronicles rulebook and the Mechanical Catalog (iirc).

The last option would be Ad Astra's Squadron Strike. Maneuvering is far more important that shooting, as any weapon hit will do a whole lot of damage. There's a pretty significant learning curve to the 3d movement and more importantly "seeing" where your target is in relation to your ship.

"And you know which way your opponent is going to turn how, exactly?" Not to be snarky, but because I have eyes in my head. If someone is running at you from a hundred yards away, you will be able to track him the entire way. You aren't going to randomly run in on direction because you hope he runs that way. I just find the random movement thing makes you spend way too much time trying to maneuver into a position to fire. I win many of these games by just flying figure 8's. Someone will always be in your path. I like an initiative turn system which can be adjusted do to damage you take. If it was up to me on Attack Wing, I would dump the random dial and just use the chart with the possible movements it can make. Each ship has to move in order of its rankings which are determined by both players at the beginning of the game with no matching numbers.