"Tango, enough with the politics/current events links" Topic

The sun came up this morning!

Seems to be less shotgun blasts than usual over the last two days.

Still lots of other interesting stuff to read, and the world did not end because of it.

It really may be possible to show a little restraint or have a reasonable post limit.

Rob.

Have held off for some time but I'd like to add my comments.
I don't access threads from the front page but from the individual boards. One issue with that is you don't know who has posted the original thread (or indeed the latest comment) until you open it. I must admit to a certain groan of frustration when I open a thread posted by Tango, no matter how interesting the thread title, and rarely end up finding anything that interests me. The repeating of items already currently in the News section is doubly frustrating. If I stifle him the posts are still there with no author attributes visible until I open it.

This isn't without some cost to myself & to TMP. If I access TMP on my smartphone I may use part of my contract 3G internet allowance (not always able to access free WiFi) in finding a thread I would rather avoid. And the posts are using up server space & bandwidth for TMP which must therefore incur TMP some cost too.

Perhaps one solution might be that each thread carries the author as well as the title in the listings (for example like on Lead Adventures, Fanaticus etc). At least this would alert us to potentially avoid using our own & TMP's bandwidth un-necessarily.
Perhaps Tango might consider hosting his own blog to post the news items, & putting a summary post to TMP every day or so listing all of the items which we could choose to follow up if they interest us or ignore if they don't.

Either way whilst some enjoy Tango's posts it's clear that many find them intensely irritating and I know I am much less frequent in my visits to TMP of late, and that finding so many posts by this member is a key factor in this

Phil

Perhaps Tango might consider hosting his own blog to post the news items, & putting a summary post to TMP every day or so listing all of the items which we could choose to follow up if they interest us or ignore if they don't.

That has been suggested more than once before…

It's been suggested as a lark before that Tango be the TMP correspondent; why not let him source news and submit it to the editors for cleanup and publication? That would kill one of my annoyances right there- the posts duplicated between news items, manufacturer announcements and Tango reposting both of the prior.

Still not sure how folks determine what it "interesting" and somehow deserves to remain on the front page and what isn't.

I understand (and agree with, to one degree or another) the various positions folks are taking, but the notion that some threads shouldn't be pushed off the front page by another thread is a little silly.

My "What color are French bricoles?" thread may get pushed off by your "What color are British bricoles?" thread, but that's not a terrible crime. And my thread doesn't go away, either. It's just one spot down on the board(s) I posted.

That's a "feature" of how TMP is configured, by the way, and if folks don't like digging through endless boards to find specific threads, maybe they shouldn't have voted for endless sub-boards.

Speaking of, will you support a "Proper Bricole Color" board?

I've said in the past that I don't see much sense in stifling; at least in its present form.

However, if I could stifle someone and their posts were eleminated effectively from the main page then I could see a real benefit to its existence. Could this particular problem that the OP raises not be dealt with immedately and in a senitive way?

There are obviously lots of TMPers who enjoy Tango's contributions and those who feel they negitively effect their TMP experience. Since the main reason is how multiple posts push other posts off the main page why can't we have TMP v4 address this. I'm not a computer programmer but would it be that difficult to change the stifle function to serve some real purpose and eleminate an unwanted poster altogether from the main page altogether?

That's a "feature" of how TMP is configured, by the way, and if folks don't like digging through endless boards to find specific threads, maybe they shouldn't have voted for endless sub-boards.

Some of us have consistently voted against new boards – even failed boards, but they keep getting added.

Last time this came up I made an excellent suggestion that doesn't seem to have gained traction so I'll make it again. All Bill needs to do is make it so that when you stifle someone any threads they start don't appear on your front page.

Tango can keep posting as much as he likes. People who want to read his posts can continue to do so. People who don't want to don't have to.

Everyone's happy.

Perhaps it's a feature of TMP4.0….

"Last time this came up I made an excellent suggestion that doesn't seem to have gained traction so I'll make it again. All Bill needs to do is make it so that when you stifle someone any threads they start don't appear on your front page." -- that has been recommended many many times before.

"Some of us have consistently voted against new boards – even failed boards, but they keep getting added." -- even if a majority of ppl vote against a new board, it gets made if a certain number of ppl vote for it. 40???

Alex Kulic… This has been suggested many times in the past but was shot down/not acted upon. To me it seems to be a solution that would satisfy most of the people with the exception of those that follow only the board view of things.

And it is not any more censorship than allowing the current stifle, or allowing you to remove a board from your interests.

The only downside for Bill that I can see is that it would eliminate the accidental clicks that occur on the Super Stifled users posts which might affect some advertising rate for the site. However, I don't think this is how Bill charges for advertising so that might not even be a downside.

Id love to see a change in the stifle system so that the entire post is unable to be seen.

Adding new Boards is not decided by a majority. It has a threshold minimum of 40 "would you support this Board?"
ALL Boards would fail if put to a democratic vote. Dear Editor is asking if people would post to such a Board.
Even such a robust Board as American Revolution failed the Democracy test, but it passed the "would you support" test with flying colors.

The stifle should include both post of the thread and content. We all know where to find the above if we want… R.

Why would people stifle others anyway, I've gained 16 since posting on this thread, are people so uptight they can't bare to just pass over and not read an opinion which may differ to theirs, so they would rather it not appear in front of them.
Just realised that it may be pointless me posting this because the people to whom I may be referring have already stifled me and won't see this post anyway. I read the arguments against Tango's post and a lot have been well made and made me think, had I stifled everyone with opposite views I would not have had the chance to do this.

There is no dearth of people who only want to see their own opinions parroted.

Tango's alright by me. He's not doing anything different from the rest of us, except maybe the volume of his posts. But if that's the issue, where is the cutoff point? Are we going to start allotting a certain number of posts per day for each of us? No thanks. That's too much appeasement for the haters, in my opinion.

I generally enjoy Tango's posts. I like the eye candy, and the weird little miniatures he manages to find. I don't care for all of it, however, and the stuff I don't care for, I ignore. Problem solved. In the end, he's hurting no one, and his enjoyment of the site – like all of ours – should not be infringed simply because someone's got their panties in a twist.

Dear members,

Current military discussions are allowed in the forum.

FAQ:

Similarly, discussion of politics pertaining to current affairs (within the past ten years) is not allowed, except as it pertains to modern wargaming.

Current military discussions are allowed in the forum.

When do "current military discussions" become "current affairs (within the past ten years)" ?

I do not read most of what Tango posts, I also am not inconvienced by his posts. If a post isn't available on the front page, it is usually that purple header in the topics.
I'm not going to run with witch hunt or lynch party, but isn't a member's name part of the topic? I firmly support freedom of speech which includes speech I find distasteful. My children have been taught that "shut up" is a bad thing to say. To say "shut up" you have told a person their thoughts/opinion has no value or meaning. I wouldn't be wearing a uniform and moving with rifle in harms way but that I do place my oath and that of the Constitution and Bill of Rights in that high regard.
So was the intention to get him to stop, denying the pursuit of happiness? Perhaps limit him his posts, which should also limit ours?
I must've missed the posts where he descibes arson, impaling babies on spikes, or demonizes another nation, religion, or ethnic group.
Some folk here annoy me as I am sure I annoy others. I wouldn't interfere with their ability to share as I'd hope none would interfere with mine.
Rock on, Tango!

Tango

Well said. The biggest issue with TMP seems to be the level of hate when you say something that someone disagrees with. Jeez, I had my whole country called down last week on a board for not drinking OPs kook aid. Each time I come back I find someone on a thread remaining why I gave up supporting membership. Anger, irrational anger over stupid stuff; from uniform colours to what Hitler had for lunch on August 25th 1943. This thread is a lynch mob nothing more.

Chadian

Makes a good point this thread is a personal attack under TMP rules.

Where is the hate Cackistan? I see a bunch of people who are annoyed by by his daily spamming of the front page with irrelevant "news" items that he cuts and pastes from other sites. They have offered up possible solutions so that everyone can be happy. I think that hardly qualifies as hate.

If you want to see some hate take a gander at the Blue Fez. That makes the harsh words on TMP sound like witty banter over afternoon tea.

I guess that this really is a non issue to the Editors, only 398 people are bothered enough to use the stifle button

This statement is misleading enough to make me want to respond to it. 398 people chose to stifle – correct

But what does stifling do – stops people from seeing comments in posts. From the horses mouth he doesn't care to look at his posts after he spams the site. So what would stifling accomplish here? He does not come in and argue with people. He post one liners and moves on to the next thing he sees. He doesn't warrant people to stifle him. So how to deal with him?

As many posters have already stated just skip his posts. Well that would imply that you skip half the front page of the site.
As Tango alphabetically posted a few pages back " you I'll spam the site all I want till Bill does something to say I need to stop" Stifling him is worthless, Ignoring him impossible.

I don't bother to read anything by tango. I log into TMP see his spam don't feel like wading through it to see what else I might be interested in and log back out. I don't get upset with what tango does at it will not change. What never stops amazing me though as all the tango defenders.

He physically came out here and posted that he is the special flower of TMP. That he will make sure he is heard over everyone else. He doesn't care if your heard, or if you even care to listen to him. He will continue to do what the he wants (smile)

And you jump to defend him. Tango posting is annoying but that way of thinking is just crazy.

Stockholm right there.
DZT

Chuck05-

That' s just captain canada again. Same thing he posted a couple pages back. :)

Well said Dropzone.

Sorry not I. I just post once.

This is a very long thread.

There is a negligable percentage of the TMP membership who are actively against Tango01's methods of posting. Go back and count – and assumming no sock puppet accounts – it's really not a large number.

I would politely suggest that instead of attacking one member of this happy group of gamers, more energy could be put into creating these "fascinating threads" that are getting bumped off the front page in such an outragous way (my sarcasm). Instead of starting a "I don't like this person" thread try starting a thread with the title :

"AAR of my last game"

or

"pictures of the figures I just painted"

or

"I just bought this neat bit of resin scenery – anyone got any tips on how to paint it ?"

or

"I don't understand rule 731 of Bunny Empire troopers of Napoleon – can anyone explain it ?"

or…anything really. As long as it is a positive.

There is a negligable percentage of the TMP membership who are actively against Tango01's methods of posting

.

Negligable? I wouldn't say negligible. I reckon it's 50/50 as it always is. Negligible does not have six pages of posts.

Let me ask the Armand supporters this: Lets say there is a guy in your gaming group that constantly shows up with bad body odor and refuses to wear deodorant. He detracting from your gaming experience. Do you just let him be as there is no specific rule he is breaking by not wearing deodorant or do you tell him he stinks and needs to learn some hygiene?

In this case Armand is the guy and the odor problem is the sheer amount of posts some of which have questionable value on a war gaming forum.

No one is attacking Armand. The op simply asked that he lay off posting all the current affairs news stories. Others have suggested reasonable compromise to solve the issues they have with Armand's posting style. Ive seen more personal attacks from the folks falling over themselves rushing to his defense.

As for the post up or shut up suggestion from 20thmaine, Its a great suggestion but it hardly resolves anything. I happily post items when I think they are worth posting. I dont post every little thing I see online or every figure I paint. What would this place look like if we had fifty more Armands?

Negligable? I wouldn't say negligible. I reckon it's 50/50 as it always is. Negligible does not have six pages of posts.

Lets do some maths.

Each page gets 50 posts

This is page 6 of the thread. It's not full. Let's call it at 300 posts.

Let's assume everyone only posted once (thet didn't, I know).

let's accept that roughly half the posts are in favour, and half against.

That's 150 people against (very generous over estimate).

There are 36,344 members of TMP as of this minute.

(150/36344 ) * 100 = 0.4127% of the membership of TMP.

Sorry, but less than half of one percent of the membership who are actively against is negligable. The other 99.5% of the membership are in the catagories of :

A) like things as they are
B) somewhat bothered but can live with it
C) Don't care either way as they ignore all this stuff
D) Don't even know what we're talking about because they have most of the boards "of concern" turned off for one reason or another.

As for the post up or shut up suggestion from 20thmaine, Its a great suggestion but it hardly resolves anything

That wasn't really what I said, or at least, it wasn't what I meant. Six pages of posts on this thread – wouldn't that be better being 20 really interesting threads on gaming ? If that's what we want. That's all I meant.

People have suggested "well, what if there were 5, 10, or even 50 Tango01's", well, what if there were ? So what ? I can still read thread titles, and I'd probably turn off a few pages that don't really interest me. I'd probably do some filtering – the facilities are there for me to do that.

Anyway – I was also curious to see what all this politics/non-gaming stuff that's being posted is. Here's a list of Tango01s posts from yesterday. If I consider it to be relevant to a gaming topic and /or it meets the requirement of the board posted to I've put a YYY next to it. Here goes :

Darkest Star Games new Colonist Adventurers (4)
Tango01 on 15mm Sci-Fi YYY

Reichstag in 6mm.
Tango01 on WWII Land Gallery YYY

The new add-on armour for Humvees
Tango01 on Modern Discussion YYY

The SR-71 Spy Plane Was So Fast, It Outran Every … (4)
Tango01 on Modern Aviation Discussion YYY

Superb Ancient Diorama. (10)
Tango01 on Ancients Discussion YYY

On the Seven Seas: Wargames Rules for the Age of Piracy (2)
Tango01 on Pirates YYY

The toxic zombies (2)
Tango01 on Zombies YYY

Belgian Carabiniers for Waterloo (3)
Tango01 on Napoleonic Gallery YYY

Austrian Uhlans Command (2)
Tango01 on Napoleonic Gallery YYY

The flying Ravens
Tango01 on SF Gallery YYY

Muslim-Christian Conflict Threatens Central African Republic (7)
Tango01 on Modern Media YYY

The Indians jawans mutinity.
Tango01 on Modern What-If YYY

Two Steampunk Sci-Fi Short Films .
Tango01 on Victorian SF YYY

Napoleon and the Great Pyramid: Myth and Reality
Tango01 on Napoleonic Media YYY

America needs to build a new, stealthy, long-range bomber (19)
Tango01 on Modern Aviation Discussion YYY

Eurofighter Typhoon Marks Delivery of 400th Aircraft (6)
Tango01 on Modern Aviation Discussion YYY

The Great War by Joe Sacco (5)
Tango01 on Early 20th Century Media YYY

One-of-a-kind toy bank coasts to $266,500 USD (5)
Tango01 on Utter Drivel YYY

Meet the New Wonder Woman Heading to the Big Screen (16)
Tango01 on SF Media YYY

Ork Armada (3)
Tango01 on SF Gallery YYY

First Amazing Spider-Man 2 Trailer Is Full of… (3)
Tango01 on SF Media YYY

How to make an awesome urban terrain setup Ghetto Heights (8)
Tango01 on SF Gallery YYY

Philon and Heron, Artillery and Siegecraft in Antiquity (4)
Tango01 on Ancients Media YYY

Pendraken WW1 artillery crews (3)
Tango01 on Early 20th Century Discussion YYY

Early Tree-Dwelling Bipedal Human Ancestor…
Tango01 on Prehistoric YYY

Eureka Kung Fu Schoolgirls (10)
Tango01 on Needs More Boobies YYY

The Ratte in 10mm. (7)
Tango01 on Flames of War YYY

New Fossil Species Found in Mozambique Reveals …
Tango01 on Prehistoric YYY

28 Threads, all relevant/in the appropriate place. That's 28 of 113 threads.Yes, that's a lot, but they are all valid threads. I think I read 7 of them – having made that list I'm off to check those Steampunk films.

I wonder how much all those manufacturers mind that someone is pointing us at their products ? Not so much I'd guess.

Excellent post/point.

No one has taken issue with his gaming posts. Its the current affairs stuff.

Like this:

Eurofighter Typhoon Marks Delivery of 400th Aircraft (6)
Tango01 on Modern Aviation Discussion YYY

Its a news item. How is it related to war gaming?

Or this:

America needs to build a new, stealthy, long-range bomber (19)
Tango01 on Modern Aviation Discussion YYY

This is the description of the modern aviation board:

For the discussion of aerial miniature wargaming from the post-WWII period to the present-day.

How do those news items fit?

If the modern aviation discussion board is not the correct place to discuss current or future aircraft then where is the correct place ?

If you are suggesting, as I think you may be, that discussing future bombers, or the delivery of the 400th Eurofighter constitutes political discussion then the fault is with the board.

If your assertion is valid that discussing any current aeroplane or anything to do with curent military aviation is politics then the board should be deleted.

You ask how these topics are related to wargaming – suppose I am considering a "2030 what-if aerial wargame" then I will need to consider what aircraft will be available, and what future developments are possible in that timescale. Those two threads would suggest there will be ~400 (maybe more) eurofighters, and also suggest that a new stealth bomber may well not be available by 2030. That is relevant information for my wargame.

It's a bit like discussing Napoleonic logistics.

Excellent posts by 20thMaine.

Have any of you Tango-bashing s paused for a minute to consider that maybe Tango doesn't add to existing posts very much because English is not his mother tongue?

Perhaps that is why he feels more comfortable offering links instead. That, and the fact that he is extremely good at it. I have to say that most of the links Tango gives us are simply superb. I spend a lot of time researching my hobby but I never seem to be able to find the golden nuggets that Tango does.

And Tango DOES contribute to existing threads from time to time, particularly on the Napoleonic boards. As an example off the top of my head, he made an excellent contribution to a thread that I started not very long ago;
TMP link

Sorry, but less than half of one percent of the membership who are actively against is negligable. The other 99.5% of the membership are in the catagories of :

So you are saying everyone who doesn't post is in favour of Tango then? That some sort of Wargamer logic?

I would have thought it would be safer to say that we don't know the opinions of those who don't actively post on a topic wouldn't you? Perhaps the silent ones are just as split as we are. After all I don't see 36.000 posts of active support either -do you?

To fill in the rest of your partial quote and thereby answer your question (all the information is there already).

Sorry, but less than half of one percent of the membership who are actively against is negligable. The other 99.5% of the membership are in the catagories of :

A) like things as they are
B) somewhat bothered but can live with it
C) Don't care either way as they ignore all this stuff
D) Don't even know what we're talking about because they have most of the boards "of concern" turned off for one reason or another.

Hmmm, the old partial quoting tactic. These guys must really have a strong case….

Exactly my point-

We don't know what the others how ever many of them there are, are thinking.

I stand by my figures that I bet it's 50/50. However it seems Tango has posted far less just lately so perhaps something has come of this thread.

I hope not.

Tin Hat you can stand by, behind, in front or on top of your figure, it won't change the only fact that we currently know – less than 0.5% of TMP people are annoyed enough about this topic to actually post about it. Everything else is just speculation and may possibly reflect the observer's bias.

I don't know what other people think, and I don't claim to. I only know that they aren't standing up in their thousands to complain.

+1 20th Maine.

If you want to ask someone to do something why not ask them directly via pm?

Why post on a public forum?

If they don't have PM then ask them to e-mail you and supply your e-mail address.

I have done both and no ugly threads resulted.

Tin Hat you can stand by, behind, in front or on top of your figure, it won't change the only fact that we currently know – less than 0.5% of TMP people are annoyed enough about this topic to actually post about it.

And don't forget the ~99% who never post anything about … anything.

If the modern aviation discussion board is not the correct place to discuss current or future aircraft then where is the correct place?

Um, the Current Affairs board, perhaps?

Well I'm confused. Yesterday we were a 'mob' now we're a negligible number.

Can't be both.

Why is it when those who complain that we are complaining too much, and tell us to simply ignore posts by tango are themselves then incapable of ignoring posts about him?

Well said Tin Hat.

A duck floats.
So, what else floats? Very small rocks and ducks.
If it floats it is a witch! Burn'em

I know, has nothing to do what so ever to the conversation.

Militia Pete, I don't wanna sound picky but you missed Churches and lead, probably gonna have to stifle you now..CH.

This forum has so many informed and prolific posters that it can afford to hound out a guy who:

Is a combat veteran;
Comes from a nationality/ethnicity that is underrepresented on TMP;
Has the courtesy to answer all responses to his posts;
Has never, to my knowledge, been rude or ignorant or indulged in personal attacks on a fellow TMPer Though God knows he'd be justified!;

No!

Tango, or Armand, brings a hell of a lot to TMP, and I, clearly along with many others, have a better TMP experience for his contribution. Personally I am pleased and proud to have him as an on-line buddy.

So back off and get your TMP experience organised so that you can skip those of his posts you feel you can't afford to spend the couple of nano seconds it takes to scan over them!

Well said Sparker