"Tango, enough with the politics/current events links" Topic

As much as he would like it to be, this has absolutely nothing to do with the OFM.

Why would you limit the posts of everyone? Not everyone is posting large volumes of irrelevant links to external websites.

Links which incidentally take people away from the TMP site.

It is for that reason alone that the editor should be interested.

Indeed Jeff Worley but it wouldn't be a show without Punch.

Interesting discussion. I don't use the 'front page' when I visit (daily); I look at new product announcements and then go through the General Boards followed by specific Boards that interest me.

Overall, I've been informed by the majority of Tango's posts (that I've read) and consider the minority redundant or of no value to me personally.

What I perceive here is 'annoyance' at his postings. While I understand that, my reaction is, what does that matter? In other words the only thing that matters in a forum with rules is whether a member is breaking those rules.

If you (i.e., any other member) feel that the rules are being broken then contact the Editor. To me, this is so obvious it causes me to question the motivation (or purpose) for this type of thread. 

So, if we limit one member (again, assuming he/she is NOT breaking forum rules) where does it stop? I believe it then becomes a very slippery slope.

Frankly, there are numerous prolific posters here that annoy me far more than Tango. But that's a byproduct of my own personality and reaction to what I perceive as their attitude and or intent.  What I find interesting is how much I've been informed by their posts.

Respectfully,

J. P. Kelly

If you will all notice, neither "Tango" none nay of the Editors have weighed in on this discussion. It seems to me that if Bill has a problem with "Tango's" post count, then it should be taken up privately between the two of them. This periodic crucifying of "Tango" gets just as tiresome as some claim his posts to be.

Agreed.

I just don't understand the problem. Tango post a lot. So what? Is there any rule governing such? I've yet to see it. If one wishes, one could compete with him.
As to political posts by Tango. Which were those? I've seen many of his posts. I haven't seen any that I thought broke the rules. At least not so far as politics were concerned.
By the way, Bill has made it very clear that he is aware of Tangos behavior. He's been so for years. He obviously has less problems with that than he has with those against Tango.
Bill's house. Bill's rules.

I agree with Joes Shop.

- was going to wax long and lyrically on this but WOW! Joes Shop said it all and charmingly polite he was at doing it as well "well said Sir". And although not being a US citizen but believing their right to free speech thing, I can only endorse Tango1 even if I don't agree with all he brings to TMP( boy is he prolific mind you.) Mr Wongs input that it sets him off because of who "he" is, is darn right unfair and unjust. Me I say don't like it, don't look/read/listen to it,problem solved, yes TMP has changed/ evolved would we rather it did not? I my self hate change but guess what it still kicks me in the teeth weather I like it or not.

- was going to wax long and lyrically on this but WOW! Joes Shop said it all and charmingly polite he was at doing it as well "well said Sir". And although not being a US citizen but believing their right to free speech thing, I can only endorse Tango1 even if I don't agree with all he brings to TMP( boy is he prolific mind you.) Mr Wongs input that it sets him off because of who "he" is, is darn right unfair and unjust. Me I say don't like it, don't look/read/listen to it,problem solved, yes TMP has changed/ evolved would we rather it did not? I my self hate change but guess what it still kicks me in the teeth whether I like it or not.

Has anyone tried to message Tango1 directly with their concerns?

NHi,
Just to make things clear, I think the problem I have with Tango is due to his behaviour rather than him personally. Whatever some people think, many of us think that that behaviour is causing TMP to be less enjoyable and it's causing some people to go elsewhere. What we need is solution to the problem. Maybe there should be a limit on the number of topics a member can generate in any one day or maybe the message boards should be more actively moderated with inappropriate threads locked or deleted. That's what happens on the Lead Adventure forum and it doesn't suffer from Tango disease.
What do you think would happen if more people on TMP started behaving like Tango? It would be so unentertaining and unreadable that no one would visit it.
Remember that there is no such thing as complete freedom of speech. There always has to be consideration for the feelings and wishes of others. Perhaps we should have some sort of debate or poll about the issues Tango's posting behaviour raises. Not a poll about the man, that would be wrong, but rather a poll about what constitutes reasonable forum behaviour and how a fair forum community can be constituted and run beyond the bounds of the current rules.
All the best,
George.

Conversations with him are limited to:

"Enjoy"

"Glad you like it boys!"

"Amicalment."

The occasional *smile*

and the occasional half assed defense of his spamming. He generally exhibits little to no personal interaction that I can see. He posts, but contributes little or nothing on his posts. Will not engage in dialogue about his posting habits or about anything really.

And I think that's the thing his sycophants are missing. It's not how much he posts (Kaoschallenged and several others post nearly as often-but they actually engage the community). It's his posting style and habits. He contributes a lot of spammy type topics with very little contribution to the community. He's all surface, no depth. And has been said, he speeds the rate of topics dropping off with little to no gain except feeding people that seem incapable of finding or running into a lot of the same stuff on their own. I mean really, if you need Tango to find out what's going on in the hobby, you must live in a cave. Maybe I'm just really active in finding out all things new releases miniatures wise, but there has been only one case where he found something I didn't already know about.

Mostly, it's the same kind of thing that always happens on the internet. Indignant reactions to someone's behavior provoke indignant responses about the initial indignant reaction. And as always, you get two teams and no middle ground.

Sounds like the typical responses to trolling and spamming type internet behavior. This is basic net 1.0 type stuff here.

Tango simply has no nettiqute and is either incredibly oblivious about the reaction it causes or revels in it. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt, but lately with the way he seems to be getting off on tensions between the US and China-edit: he really seems to be enjoying the tensions between us-I am more inclined to believe the latter.

And, as always and forever, nothing either way will be done except those who don't like it will leave and those that do will stay (and stifle everyone who doesn't like Tango) until it will be nothing but a wall of Tango and delightful cooing at whatever droppings he leaves behind.

Party on Wayne.

Party on Garth.

Soooo we just do nothing and let it all blow up again in a few weeks eh?

Fine. let the tail wag the dog if that's the way you want it.

Can't be many who fail to see it's dividing opinion and causing a lot of people to get annoyed. Now if it were me I wouldn't need to be asked. I'm a reasonable chap and could see I'm upsetting a lot of people.

Like others have said if we all posted 30 times a day-and many of us could, TMP would just become unreadable. Surely a little respect for other users is in order.

I used to have a suspicion he may have been a little autistic and had trouble interacting with people: but recent posts seem to dispel that and see more intent on deliberately starting arguments.

Except for the fact that Tango's name is on all those posts I don't think there's anything else that would draw attention to them. If they were by a dozen different people no one would be making a fuss.
So really it's just down to some people thinking one guy is posting too much.
If every post he made was totally and only about gaming they'd still be squawking.

Seems like a bunch of whining about nothing to me.

causing a lot of people to get annoyed.

Oh, look! The easily annoyed folks have been easily annoyed again! Oh my!

Who has been set up to judge what another members level of contribution should be?

What I recall when thinking of Tango is his phrase, "of possible interest?".

That IS his contribution in my opinion.

I agree that his style and number of postings can annoy others; I'm certainly not making light of anyone else's reaction or feelings.

Again, take it up with the Editor.

Respectfully,

J. P. Kelly

It seems to be making some people, myself included, to enjoy TMP less and for some to visit less. I scroll down the front page and the ratio of good posts to spam is so poor it feels like it is not worth the effort a lot of the time. No one can complain, because he isnt breaking a rule, but to bring in a rule to prevent the problem would be unfair. So it will continue until it his private forum with few other contributors, but what will be the fun in spamming if no one reads it.

TMP isnt a shadow of what it was previously.

Phil

TMP isnt a shadow of what it was previously.

Agreed. There's much less of interest on here now than there was a few years ago. I have look every few days and find a couple of interesting threads, so spend about ten minutes on here. A few years ago I would often spend more than an hour at a time on here.

No Space Monkey, it's more than that. If it were a dozen people, there would be more chance that the post would generate discussion by the original poster. It's just bad form to post and walk away. Plus, there would be less chance of repeat posts because most people check the news feed and main page. Tango commits dozens of nettiqute violations that a dozen separate posters would be incapable of doing, and all because he seems to be doing it intentionally.

Why haven't we heard from Bill or the Assistant Editors??

"Remember that there is no such thing as complete freedom of speech".
But there is: one should be allowed saying or writing absolutely anything. This is free speech. However, if the content is damaging, either the insulted party or the government is allowed by law to take measures. If I may offer something alike: Dutch criminal law does not prohibit anything. Instead it says that the person who does so and so, will be punished with… (mostly jail and/or fine). Same principal.

I read Armand's post about the hobby with interest and his political posts not at all. And if ("Whoever" (;-)) forbids) his posting results in ONLY his postings on TMP, I expect Bill either to take measures or start TMP2.

Luc.

There have always been lots of posts where the OP makes one post 'Hey, look at this!' and walks away. Big deal.
Are you saying that your main gripe is that you haven't gotten a chance to know the real Tango, to talk with him and find out what makes him tick?

There's always been a good number or repeat posts as well… and helpfully bored folks who felt the need to point this out 'Hey, someone already posted that!'
Again, big deal.

If we just stuck a randomizer on Tango's account name no one would be able to tell which posts were his (except for the 'amicalment')… and no one would be complaining (about this… I'm sure they'd find something).

@Space Monkey- so, you're comparing him to an automated spam-bot, and that would be ok? Yes, people would be complaining.

That might sound harsh, I just don't follow your rational. Am I misunderstanding?

What is making ME enjoy TMP less is this weekly ranting against a specific member. Grow up, people.
Some skate pretty close to a "personal attack" for which you should be DHed.

TMP isnt a shadow of what it was previously.

You're right. We have a lot more American Revolution threads. Previously, in the "golden age" we had hardly any.
For those of you too dense to recognize sarcasm. that was sarcasm.

Poor babies. Teacher is letting little Armand talk whenever he wants. Boo hoo.
If his multiple posts bother you so much, why don't YOU do it?

I might point out that he posts on a lot of different subjects. Not all are "Boobies" threads.
I open and read about 30% of what he posts. As opposed to about 20% of the posts by "other" members.
So, I consider him an asset. Gee, does that make me a "sycophant"?

Oh, I get it. A "sycophant" is anyone who disagrees with your dislike for someone.

If his multiple posts bother you so much, why don't YOU do it?

Do what?

I don't need to do it, he does it for me?

I think that's what John's trying to get across.

What is certain though is it's no fun falling out with people on here, and it happens all too often over the same subject.

Some of us are willing to try and suggest a solution though.

Just telling people that speak up to 'grow a pair and deal with it', or 'grow up' and not suggesting anything helpful is incredibly patronising a sure fire way of galvanising even more resentment. Perhaps it is time to split off and form TMP2 ?

From Merriam Webster:

sy·co·phant noun \-fənt also -ˌfant\\ˈsi-kə-fənt also ˈsī- & -ˌfant\
: a person who praises powerful people in order to get their approval.

So, no, the term here is meaningless.

Respectfully,

J. P. Kelly

@Space Monkey- so, you're comparing him to an automated spam-bot, and that would be ok?

To my way of thinking a spam-bot just dumps unrelated posts onto a forum advertising products for sale. I don't see Tango doing any such thing.
No single post I've seen of his seems out of place here.
People aren't complaining about any specific post, otherwise they'd hit the ! button.
No, it's the volume of posts from one poster… that's ALL IT IS. "This guys is posting too much!"… anything else is just grasping rationalization for that core complaint.

If you think ALL posters should be limited in how many threads they can create, then say that. But don't single out Tango, because he's not breaking any existing rules.

Iron Ivan Keith,

"And I think that's the thing his sycophants are missing."

Why try to add reasonable comments to a discussion when you can simply insult people instead, eh? Badly, even, since you don't know the definition of sycophant.

While I understand that some people may not like Tango's prolific posts, some of us do (and – like anything – I'm sure most TMPers couldn't care less).
There are some people that are actually harmful to this community. Save your witch hunt for them. Just because you find someone annoying doesn't give you the right to bully them away.
I find people who can't make a point without insulting those with opinions differing than their own to be annoying. I won't start a thread on that, but in your case I can spend my money on other products. There are plenty of companies out there that don't come here to insult the membership and bully users over pet peeves.

Space monkey wrote-

No, it's the volume of posts from one poster… that's ALL IT IS. "This guys is posting too much!"…

No, that's not the point that was being made at the start of this topic. It's what the topic has become though.

Tango, I can only speak for myself, but can you please stop posting all these links relating to current events/politics and to a lesser extent the defence industry news and history stuff.

THIS was the OP's request. While numerous people have expressed their disproval for the amount of Tango's postings, this OP finds all the political stuff annoying. The effect is the same: namescalling ensues.

No, that's not the point that was being made at the start of this topic. It's what the topic has become though.

Even the OP is off base… because if any single post of Tango's was offensive or against the rules there are rules and mechanisms in place for that. The REAL offense is that those posts have HIS name on them. That's all that's really bugging anyone who is claiming to be bugged by them, otherwise they'd hit the ! button.
Otherwise I'd expect people to be asking for a rule against posting current event threads about military actions, rather than singling out a particular person.

All of his "current events" have to do with gameable military situations.
Nowhere is he saying that certain politicians or policies are deficient or praiseworthy. We can and do make our own judgments about that.

Sorry, but he just does NOT fit the criteria for deletion or not allowing.

Signed, your friendly neighborhood sycophant

Tin Hat: I agree completely with your statement.

However, if all of Tango's posts were hobby related (i.e., no current affairs, no politics, etc.) don't you think we would still be having this discussion?

I do.

Respectfully,

J. P. Kelly

No, the problem is that Tango's compulsive postings are pushing other topics and conversations, to a broad extent more relevant to the hobby than Tango's inane links, out of sight for many readers, myself included. And because TMP is becoming less interesting, people are coming here less and participate less, which exacerbates the problem further. It is really unfortunate, because TMP used to be a great place for the hobby, and now it feels many members would rather interact somewhere else.

I agree. But I also think that Bill and his editors agree with Tango's posting behaviour, or else Bill would have done something about it long ago.

It does devaluate TMP's worth for a lot of people, as it does for me. I wonder if there will stil be as much paying members one year from now….

His handle appears just below the post title, as do all of ours, so if it's that BIG an issue for you, just don't read his posts.

That should be easy to do, if you can exercise self-control.

If you cannot, then I and others can't help you.

There is no reason to censor his postings, since many of us enjoy them, and there would be far less content on TMP to read, otherwise. Many of his posts have direct applications to modern-day military situations, and/or technical advancements, occurring around the globe, so are very useful for possible wargaming scenarios relating to real events, or hypothetical ones.

Off to get more popcorn, since I've run out……..

The only logical step that would satisfy members would be a topic limit. Other forums I'm a member of have these and we don't have this problem (nor does anyone claim it's an infringement of free speech)

What do others think? Personally I feel it's the most neutral even handed way of dealing with it.

Editors???

Yet all these people who have been 'driven away' by Tango's profligate postings are somehow still around to come into any complaint threads about him and drone on about how TMP doesn't hold their interest any more.
Kind of like a lot of the folks I saw pile on The OFM when they thought he was down, but then I never saw any postings from them after that. Some people love a dogpile/lynching.

OP posted "I don't come here to read folks opinions on the middle east and China". Then how about getting some will power and NOT reading the threads that upset you? If it's a sensitive subject for you then don't read it. Just a thought.

"Sycophant" not really, just my opinion.

I would be content if everyone was limited in the number of topics they were allowed to initiate each day. Five well considered topics should be enough for anyone to generate and then participate in the resulting discussion. Alternatively (or additionally), I would be very happy if any topics generated by someone who you've stifled were hidden from your view, not just their posts within those topics.

These changes would make lots of people happy and shouldn't impact significantly on those who don't stifle and those who post considerately.

Oh, and then The Editor could offer 'unlimited thread creation' as a feature of 'premium membership'.

To go back to the original problem of the current affairs posts how about a rules change. Any discussion on the modern boards be limited to events up to 10 years from present. Anything else, no matter if it be wargames related or not be considered "current affairs" and be discussed only in the Blue Fez. A 10 year limit allows discussion of gaming Iraq or Afganistan but maybe helps to avoid irrelevant posts or those which can easily turn political. It also lessens the chances of upsetting people who find gaming very recent events disturbing.
All the best,
George.

I think Cambria has hit on a very fair system.

Five new topics per day, but still unlimited posts on any threads. Stifled posters topics should be hidden from view.

Then perhaps we can all calm down and enjoy TMP again.

Sounds fair to me.

Why am I keep agreeing with OFM on this topic?

I don't consider his posts less interesting. As far as posting something then walking away, I often post something I think may be of interest and walk away. Likewise, I often post something then find a day or so later someone does a repeat post. It usually isn't Tango, though sometimes it is.

Lots of people don't post at all – perhaps we should insist everyone has to post a comment at least once a week? That would get everyone involved. Course it would probably tie up TMP a lot more, but at least it would stop the regular posters from dominating things.I wonder what percentage of posts are written by, say, the top 25 posters in terms of numbers? TMP neds people who make lots of posts, and sorry if the mopst prolific doesn't match (for example) your interests – he does match the interests of lots of other people.

Tango is not pushing anything off the front page.

This I wonder about. Does not every new post bump the current bottom post off the webpage? If so then it would follow that "over-posting"…

Myself, I have taken the same course as others here. I simply scan the thread list and skip over Tango01 as I go. Saves a lot of time although I do realize that I miss the occasional, rare, nugget he might post.

Cheers,

First they wanted to know my login. Then they wanted to know my email address. Then they wanted me to not post so much. And now they want to limit my posts to only a few a day? Where does it end? Will they storm my house? Will they turn off my access? They will have to pry my burnt out mouse from my cold dead hands before I allow this…

The beginning of my TMP book…

I'm with the OFM on this…and I remember what happened 2 1/2 years ago.

Kevin