"Does Bolt Action have a German problem?" Topic

I've been wondering lately if the Germans in Bolt Action are underperforming. Maybe its a victim of being the first Codex released or the fact that their army didn't get anything cool like the later ones did.

Seems like it might be time for an upgrade (one free LMG if the squad has no ARs?)

Do the rules prevent you from making forces based on TO@Es or designing a scenario how you want to?

My Germans have fought very well and their LMGs and MMGs are very frightening with that extra die added and their ability to shrug off losing their sergeant.

I've used them in historical refights and mismatches in points and still have had some great games and epic wins from them. But as the game does show, they are "human" (or metal or plastic or…) and are not above the law of averages if exposed or left unsupported for too long. That is one of the great things I love about Bolt Action. You take care of your troops and they will take care of keeping you in the fight.
Larry

The Germans are perfectly fine, as seem to be all the other army lists.

If you are into Min/Maxing, Army of the Day and Codex Creep, then play 40K or even FoW.

Dont play FoW…your Germans will be far worse.

If you are into Min/Maxing, Army of the Day and Codex Creep

I was looking at the Fall-In Bolt Action tournament results recently: Only 21% of the entries were Axis (as opposed to the half you might expect) and none of the Armies in the top 12 were German.

I might have considered this an East coast (local) meta but a recent game in Elmo's basement between Soviets and Germans left me with the idea that the Soviet army I was designing was getting better while the Germans, possibly because the first one I designed was "perfect"?, didn't seem to be growing.

Consider:
Germans
2nd Lt
2x Vet Squads, 8 men, 1 LMG 2 AR
1x Vet Squad, 8 men, 2 LMG
Pz IV
Sniper, MMG, Med Mortar, Medic
8 Rad

Soviets
1st Lt
Arty FO
Free Squad
Vet Squad, 9 men, LMG
Reg Tank Riders, 7 SMG
Vet Scout Squad, 6 SMG
OT34/85
MMG, Heavy Mortar
Halftrack, HMG

The Soviet list just seemed better: maybe it's my play style.

Looks like it's too easy to bash FoW so it's time to move onto another popular WW2 set. Note the use of the word "codex" to damn the game.

The same thing applies to both Bolt Action and Flames of War. If the game mechanics are fine, then modify the army lists or weapon stats more to your liking if you think they're not accurate enough.

My dice have certainly been underperforming. Not sure about the troop list.

As a German player I originally thought this as well, but then think back a little and historically the Germans were always out gunned and out manned at least by mid-late way an way.

I have come to accept that I will always be out gunned and out manned, making my victories when I pull them off that much better.

I'd like to know where this organizational structure would be historically valid:

Soviets
1st Lt
Arty FO
Free Squad
Vet Squad, 9 men, LMG
Reg Tank Riders, 7 SMG
Vet Scout Squad, 6 SMG
OT34/85
MMG, Heavy Mortar
Halftrack, HMG

Wow -- interesting Soviet list, you wouldn't see that combo unless they were the remnants of other units after a battle that were thrown together.

Hey ubercommando my thoughts exactly. I think people could try scenarios from other games/sources and play these through I'm sure that's another way to go and just as much. If not more fun. codexs are a start point and a quick pickup game thing – my trick is to take all my stuff to the game sans lists and we build up a list quickly according to terrain set out first. Much more fun. In fact I hardly use the codex except for points values mostly.cheers happy gaming.

BA plays just fine provided you get away from the idea of fine tuning your forces yourself. Take a historical platoon per side and play with that, drop a few figures from the stronger side to balance the points if that is important to you.

Trying to play any wargame as an even sided competition is futile, best to stick to draughts or chess.

> codexs are a start point and a quick pickup game thing

You do know you are talking heresy?

This thread is why I don't play tournaments. I'd rather play historical scenarios than someone's min/maxed cherry picked force.

Wow -- interesting Soviet list

Thanks, it's been changing as I play games but I've settled on the Late War "loads of SMGs" type.

It's a platoon of 4 Squads: the inexperienced squad represents the replacements and the scouts and Vet squad represent the "old timers." The Flame Throwing T34 makes an interesting assault element when backed up with the SMG tank riders is sweet.

But, the fact that you think the Soviet list is "interesting" sort of feeds into the perception of a German problem.

Note the use of the word "codex" to damn the game.

The German medic also gives a 6+ Invulnerable Save

I might dump the medic from the German list because I never have any luck with them but the lists look balanced. You've got three veteran Germany squads vs. a missmatch of Soviet squads, some quite fragile and others too small. Both the MMG and the Mortar are vulnerable to the sniper. The 8 Rad has a recce special rule which makes them hard to pin down. Give some Panzerfausts to the infantry and the OT34 will need to be cautious.

Also, who is crewing the soviet halftrack? That HMG only works if they're on the vehicle (it's a y rule but it does balance the list some).

If you're playing in a tournament game, then history is going to take a back seat to someone trying to win a game. That's what happens in tournament competitions. No use crying foul about it.

If, however, you want a more historical club or social game, then take control of the game and use the source books as a guide. It's that simple. I'm sorry if I'm sounding harsh here but there's been a lot of complaining about two popular WW2 games on TMP recently and the solution is staring everyone in the face…and it doesn't mean ditching a game for something else. If you don't like tournaments, then don't play your social game like one.

If you don't like tournaments, then don't play your social game like one.

I like points because the armies can be made up before game night so folks can get playing right away

I might dump the medic from the German list because I never have any luck with them but the lists look balanced

Honestly, the medic is there more for the extra order die. As for the HMG "crew" I don't know because the halftrack (carrying the inexp squad) died on the first turn. It might be a job for the used up Arty FO! (hark, I hear howling). Last game the Halftrack was "crewed" by the Lt and the carried a squad of regular SMG guys (this time I tried Scouts)

I made both armies for the game so the Sniper is there explicitly because the opponent was the Soviet list. I had been running Soviets with a +2 Lt and a Captain and could order pretty much everyone at will. I wanted to try the Heavy Mortar (awesome choice BTW) and so skipped the Captain.

Yes, the German Squads each have one Faust.

Theres a lot more options coming in the Bolt Action theatre books where you will see the game become more historical putting restrictions on how armies are built.

it's really not a problem if you stick to historical units and combinations…so no M10 with British paras. That said, if you want a really punchy and historically valid unit, tray British Airlanding troops. Only 7 men to a section (squad) but you can realistically have 2 AT guns, 2 mortars and 2 MMGs for every company in the battalion…and they were rather better trained than the Para units to boot.

I have never seen any set of rules where the Germans "underperform" :)

Don't all WW2 games have a German problem? Simply because WW2 had a German problem :)

The long term trend in gaming has been to downplay German quality and to enhance Soviet quality. As the older german "glorification" faction of the hobby from the 60's,70's,80's slowly fades out a new Soviet admiration society is on the ascendance. This cuts across all facets of the military history hobby genre…games, books, websites, fanclubs.