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"House Rules for DS2" Topic

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Covert Walrus Supporting Member of TMP20 Nov 2013 12:15 p.m. PST

Just thought since not a lot has been going on here to start a thread on this. What specific house rules, not necessarily on the web, are players using for DS2?

A couple of mine -

Missile loads: Using small dice to mark them, I use magazines for vehicles and troops to limit missile firing. A standard GMS/L vehicle mount has 6 missiles and a standard GMS/H has 4. ( The Brigade Loki(?) Light tankk is therefore carrying GMS/H by WYSIWYG for example). Militia teams carry 4 shots, Line carry 6, specialized ones like the NSL Panzergrenadiers and Powered armour carry 8.

Talron Inactive Member28 Jan 2014 5:49 p.m. PST

I always ignore the "system down: firer" result when determining artillery results. With multiple targets under the beaten zone of an effective artillery strike you are sure to pull at least one of these, knocking you gun out of action as soon as you fire it.

Senor Cartmanez Inactive Member06 Mar 2016 8:02 p.m. PST

I never really liked the chit system. Below is a system that we used a few times:

Two dice are rolled, one for the weapon type and one for the weapon size. Both results are added and if that total beats the armour value, the vehicle is destroyed.

Weapon sizes:

1 = D4
2 = D6
3 = D8
4 = D10
5 = D12

Weapon type (shot/medium/long range) examples:

HVC = D8/D6/D4
MDC = D10/D8/D6
DFFG = D12/D10/D8

Amour values for vehicles are as follows (frontal/sides & rear):

Armour-1 = 4/2
Armour-2 = 6/4
Armour-3 = 8/6
Armour-4 = 10/8
Armour-5 = 12/10

So to recap, if an armour-3 target is hit from the front at medium range by an MDC-3, the firing vehicle rolls a D8 (for a size 3 weapon) and another D8 (weapon type, medium range). The target number to beat is 8 (9+). So if the combined result of both D8s is 9+, the target is destroyed.

What do you think?

Covert Walrus Supporting Member of TMP14 Mar 2016 8:49 p.m. PST

Senor Cartmanez, I've seen years of table sand dice replacements for the chit system, and frankly . . . that one beats them all for simplicity.

Mako11 Inactive Member03 Apr 2016 2:56 p.m. PST

Looks very good to me at face value.

Does it match up well with the outcomes using the chit system, or does it make combat more, or less lethal?

Covert Walrus Supporting Member of TMP07 Apr 2016 2:47 p.m. PST

Well, it eliminates BOOM chits for a start, so that will reduce a certain percentage of lethal hits – maybe 10-15% maybe?

Mute Bystander Inactive Member07 Apr 2016 4:06 p.m. PST



Otherwise it seems okay at first glance. I may give it a whirl…

Mad Mecha Guy Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Apr 2016 11:13 a.m. PST

I have got copy of the Full Metal Armour & FM Ogre rules for Dirtside 2 if anyone is interested.

Senor Cartmanez Inactive Member19 Aug 2016 8:29 a.m. PST

My apologies, I had totally forgotten that I posted my suggestion several months ago.

Covert Walrus, thank you for the kind words. I must say however that this system is not perfect, far from it. You and Mako 11 are right: this does not accurately duplicate the probability matrix of the chit system, but overall it does work.

The biggest difference lies with the lethality of weaker weapons like HELs and RFAC/HVCs and the powerful DFFG. With this system, HEL, RFAC/HVCs are more powerful while DFFGs are not as potent. This is not out of design, but a trade-off against the simplicity of the system.

This is especially true with size 4 or 5 HEL/HVCs and DFFGs. For instance, a size 5 HVC fired at long range would roll a D12 (for being size 5) and then a D4 (for being at long range). On average, the result would be 9, which is sufficient to destroy a size 3 vehicle. Under the chit system, you would draw 5 chits but with only the green ones counting, you would only have a 21% chance of that occurring per single chit drawn. So the chances of getting enough green chits to destroy a size 3 vehicle is quite remote. On the other hand, this goes a small way towards offsetting the lack of a 'Boom' mechanism (a 4% probability with the chit system).

On the other hand, damage resolution is only half of the process when firing. You obviously have to hit the target first. So that factor tends to mitigate the inherent differences with this system.

To take an extremely average example, let's say a size 3 vehicle is firing at another size 3 AFV with a size 3 (!) HKP at medium range, with an Enhanced firecon:

Both attacker and defender roll a D8. Since the attacker must beat the defender's result for a hit to occur, we could say that roughly on average the attacker has a 50% of succeeding.

Then the attacker rolls a D8 (size 3 weapon) and another D8 for an HKP at close range. The armour factor of the defending vehicle is 8, so the result of both attack dice must be 9+. Here again the chances of that occurring would be about 50%.

So overall, there would roughly be a 25% chance of the defender being destroyed.

Lastly, I also omitted the fact that to speed up play, we drafted what we call 'Dirtside Light' rules, and one of the provisions is that there are no damaged vehicles. Vehicles are either intact or blow up! As a side note, rules for morale, infantry firefights and close assaults have also been simplified, leading to much less counter clutter on the board.

Elstree Inactive Member07 May 2017 7:47 p.m. PST

"Both attacker and defender roll a D8. Since the attacker must beat the defender's result for a hit to occur, we could say that roughly on average the attacker has a 50% of succeeding."

The probability of success is actually somewhat lower. Consider: an attacker's 8 will beat a defender's 7 or lower; an attacker's 7 will beat a defender's 6 or lower; and so on. The number of combinations that will result in success for the attacker is the sum of the numbers from 7 to 1. Using the formula n(n+1)/2, that's 28 combinations out of 64 (8^2), or about 44%.

I just thought people might like to see the calculation since it's relatively simple. Incidentally, the probability of 9+ on d4+d12 is 54%. The product of the two probabilities is 24%, so Senior Cartmanez's back-of-the-envelope estimate is pretty spot-on.

Covert Walrus Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 3:08 a.m. PST

Been a while, so I thought I'd add some more House Rules.

Movement rules for flying vehicles; For a bit more granularity, true helicopters can treat low mode Urban areas as Impassable ( For rotors ), while enclosed-rotor flyers and jet-lift/AVs for Traveler and Cyberpunk fans treat it as Difficult. In high mode, of course, all flyers can traverse Urban areas as Normal.

EvilBen Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 8:03 a.m. PST

I like those rules for flying vehicles.

My main change was to infantry weapons: I wanted my pongoes to have the option of a bit more firepower, especially against vehicles.

So I said that PA *rifle* squads could carry a class-1 weapon (including GMS-L); PA missile teams got GMS-H.

Any rifle teams could have a GMS-P (like a GMS-L, but range only 18" and draws 2 chits; counts as IAVRs in close assault), or a Portable Plasma Gun (like a DFFG1, but 2/4/6" range, with BASIC firecon: in close assault, count as IAVRs but all colours count…). Not every team would necessarily get them, of course. The similarity to squad-level weapons in Stargrunt is entirely deliberate.

Covert Walrus Supporting Member of TMP28 Jul 2017 1:39 p.m. PST

That's a reasonable approach, EvilBen. Would also be useful for combat adaptation from RPGs like Cyberpunk ( Which I have done ). They do like their man-portable Plasma guns and such and your idea is pretty reasonable for that.

EvilBen Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2017 6:46 a.m. PST

Thanks! Funny you should say that. I kind of had Cyberpunk's ACPA suits in mind when I was thinking about what I wanted power armour in Dirtside to be like: the 'rifle' for a military ACPA suit is basically a heavy machine gun, which translates well to their anti-infantry firepower in DS. GMS/L and RFAC1s for special weapons troopers seemed about right, too.

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