"Baccus 6mm Napoleonic British Allies Flag sheet question" Topic

I was looking at the flag sheet, and i saw the two flags at the bottom of the sheet which (on the back of the sheet) state they were used by the Nassau troops at Waterloo. I did some research on Nassau uniforms out of curiosity, and i found myself on the Warflag website. I was browsing around when i realised that the flag for Nassau on the sheet was the exact same as was used by the Kingdom of Holland Infantry in 1806-1810. I am no expert on the Napoleonic Wars by any means, so is this a mistake on the sheet or did the Nassau regiments use this flag? I've seen the yellow flags with the icon in the middle for Nassau too, but wanted clarification on this. Thanks in advance.

I am sure that the Napoleonic experts will be coming along later but my initial research suggests that the Nassau troops were issued flags in 1806 and units carried them up to and including Waterloo. So it would appear that Bacchus is correct

Hello Sputnick120!

At Waterloo there were three Nassau regiments. Two of them were in the same brigade with green uniforms, but the third one was in a Netherlands brigade and wore blue uniforms. It's possible that this regiment carried flags different from the other two Nassau regiments. The entire flag issue carried by the Netherland forces is not clear. There does not seem to be a reliable source that clearly states what actual standards were carried by each battalion in Netherland service at Waterloo. So it seems that the flags you have from Baccus are intended to cover the units that were in Netherland service. The yellow flags were probably carried by the other two regiments in green uniforms. It's also possible that they all carried the same flags. It's simply unknown. At least as far as I could determine and I tried many sources.

Best regards,

Glenn

Hi Glenn,

I did read somewhere about a brigade with blue uniform – were they known as Orange-Nassau? think that came up somewhere! Thanks for the info, both of you. I am intending to do the allies at Waterloo in 6 mm, so thought i should raise the issue! I wasn't doubting the accuracy of Baccus, by any means!

S

Check out this post

TMP link

Blue uniforms and known as Orange-Nassau? These Napolenic gamers are crazy..

Hello Sputnick120!

Yes, that was them. I think they had the name as the Netherlands Kingdom was known as the House of Orange and their uniforms were blue as that was the colour of the Kingdoms uniforms. They had three battalions one was militia. The other two regiments in green were the same two line battalions, one militia. The only real difference in 6mm is the militia wore grey pants. I used the Brunswick figures for all of these.

I'm also painting the entire army at Waterloo in 6mm using Baccus. Already had the French so just doing the allies. Almost finished, just have two Brigades of Hanoverians, all the Highlanders, all the limbers and two battalions of guards left to do. Hope to have it all wrapped up by Spring!

How far along are you?

Best regards,

Glenn

The Baccus flag sheet NAF29 is wrong. Most Nassau troops used a yellow flag with blue shield and gold lion during the Napoleonic wars.

That said the Nassau troops at Waterloo consisted of the 2nd Regt. in the Neth. 2nd Div. – 3 bns. in green uniforms and carrying the yellow flags.
The Orange-Nassau Regt. was also in the Neth. 2nd Div. but was part of the Neth. Army – the 28th Regt. It had two bns. in blue uniforms and because it was part of the Neth. Army
it would probably carry white Neth. flags – I've not seen any evidence that they actually did carry flags.

The other Nassau unit was the 1st Regt. that formed it's own brigade. It was three bns. strong (of which one was a Landwer bn.) wore green uniforms and carried yellow flags.

See the Cent Jours site for uniforms:
centjours.mont-saint-jean.com

Hello Camcleod!

Yeap, my fingers were too quick, should only be a total of 8 battalions, 4 line in green, 2 landwher in green with grey pants and 2 with blue jackets and I think grey pants.

Likewise I'm not sure that all of them carried flags, but would assume they carried something to rally on. I gave all of mine the standard flag that you show simply because I have standard bearer figures and they look cool.

I don't have the flag sheet that is referred to, but I did see it once and thought they were white Neth. flags and if so would Baccus not be right?

Best regards,

Glenn

Okay, I've seen the flags in question and admit they are very different looking. But unless someone knows exactly which flags they are I can only suggest you contact Baccus and ask them. It could just have been a simple error or they have a source that knows more then we do.

Thanks for the info guys! And Glenn, i am not very far along at all… Got the Brunswickers but not had time to paint or even cut some of the models off their strips to base (mainly the cavalry and skirmishers!)

The yellow flags on the Baccus sheet rows 3 to 6 are Netherlands Light Infantry flags.
The yellow one on the last row left side is Hanoverian.

From their site:

I understand it's the bottom two that are in question. On the back it says they are Nassau Flags. I think I have seen these flags before in a book that I lent to a fellow and never saw it again. I think the book was written by Terence Wise. Anyway I'm curious so I'll ask Baccus if they really are Nassau flags or not.

The second and third flags in the bottom row are from the Napoleonic Kingdom of Holland under Napoleon's brother. The first one in the bottom row and the one above it are allegedly those of Hanoverian Gifhorn and Hoya feld bataillons.

Jurgen

Ah good work Jurgen. I knew I had seen them before. I've contacted Baccus so I'm sure they will fix it on their flag sheet.

Hello Flecktarn & Camcleod!

Baccus has stated that according to the Terry Wise book they are in fact Nassau flags carried by them from 1806 to 1813. The second regiment carried the 1806 colours at Waterloo. The yellow flag is a Landsturm pattern that was not carried by regular infantry or Landwehr.

I see these same two flags on the Warflag site under the Kingdom of Holland, but note when I blow them up they indicate Battalion 1 and Battalion 2. Looks more like regimental flags. Seems like this site might be wrong and they really are Nassau flags.

Do either of you have a reliable source that might shed some light on this?

Best regards,

Glenn

The two flags are Kingdom of Holland. See De Wilde's book on its army & uniforms. The text 1/2 batn. may be added for gaming purposes?

Glenn,

I do not have any sources to hand but they are widely recognised as flags of the Kingdom of Holland 1806-10, including in the Terry Wise book, which does not show them as Nassau flags. The flag on the extreme left of the bottom row is not from Nassau either.

Baccus need to check their reference!

Jurgen

link

A nice picture of the same flag being carried by a Dutch regiment in 1807.

And another one:

link

Jurgen

Thanks guys but I'm beginning to think that perhaps everyone is right. As far as I can tell Nassau had three regiments. Two of them serving more or less together and the third was with the Dutch. It seems possible that the one that served with the Dutch carried an identical flag to the Kingdom of Holland, but had a slightly different inscription. The other two probably carried the yellow flags or at least something different. Since these regiments wore different uniforms as well it seems logical that without an authoritative source they probably did in fact carry different flags.

Glenn,

Baccus are wrong; there is no question about that.

The Regiment of Orange-Nassau did not carry a Napoleonic Kingdom of Holland standard; those went out of use in 1810 when the Kingdom of Holland was absorbed into the French Empire. The regiment was only raised in 1814 and, like most of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands army, possibly did not have a standard at Waterloo. If standards were carried by that army, they would probably have been as shown in the third to sixth rows of the flagsheet.

The Kingdom of Holland was the Napoleonic state and was not the same entity as the United Kingdom of the Netherlands ruled by the house of Orange in 1815.

Jurgen

For an example of a Nassau flag from 1815, see the one depicted here of the 3rd Btn./2nd Nassau Rgt.

link

Regarding flags for the Belgian or Dutch troops, this is what my dear friend Rob W. once wrote for me (he's a Dutch specialist on uniforms etc. amongst other for 1815):

[Start quote]
The Army of the Kingdom of Holland had socalled "quarter flags" (kwartiervlaggen) of which one was issued to each company.
During 1814 one of the artillery bataillons was issued 8 of these on request. They were issued from stock. I have no further information on these flags, but it is possible that the infantry bataillons had been issued these as well.
In 1815 the plan was hatched to issue each bataillon with a bataillon flag and two guidons, following French practice.
The bataillon flag was of orange serge with white lace edging and crowned W on a black pole with iron spear point. The guidons were reversed colour and on a rod with brass cap. They were to be carried in the musket barrel of the two guides.
These were only issued in october of that year and played no role in the campaign. They continued in use for the entire 19th Century.

There is evidence that various bataillons had colours or flags made or had them presented. Some of these have survived.
Various prints show colours, flags or guidons. And there is the well known store of the 7th line attaching the medal given to them by the Prince of Orange to their colour (or flag).
[End quote]

I myself have indeed found at least 4 memoirs of 4 different battalions, saying there was a flag or colour guard, etc. during the campaign.

Well, apart from all the historical talk, I hope everyone can now decide to put some flags with their units ;-)

Baccus has now confirmed that the Nassua flags on that sheet are indeed not the right ones. They plan to update and correct that sheet as soon as they can.