"Major changes in the ADB/Mongoose Joint venture" Topic

See here:

link

Hopefully these changes will correct many of the problems with A Call to Arms: Star Fleet, and ensure that the game does not fade away. :)

Seems good news – now we just have to get a reliable source for 2500 ships in the UK…

I am half tempted to take them on myself.

Mike

It does sound good. I have been waiting for some of the 2500 ships that were mentioned but have not been released. I do hope they can get them done quickly.

Any ideas on the time line for re-doing the Call to Arms rules and support books?

For future reference, in case the press release moves off the front blog page, the posting can be read at this link.

Glad to see the Starline 2500 continue. IMHO much better than the 2400 minis…

Damon.

I like the 2500s as well. But worry a little when they feel the need to specify that 'the two companies remain great friends'!

I'm very happy about this announcement. Even though it sounds like it will likely be 6 months before we see new rules or minis, its certainly better than just having it fade away.

Doesn't sound good, I've pre-ordered and paid for the see through 'cloaked'
Resin romulan fleet box almost exactly 2 years ago when mongoose
First announced it and am still waiting, along with a 'limited' edition ship
Which hasn't arrived yet either.

Not hopeful

Regards

Jim

Jim

I'm just an ADB customer, but I would advise that if Mongoose does not cancel your order and refund you pretty soon, that you should just go ahead and request your refund.

I never heard very much about the headway, if any, that the cloaked Roms were making. I got the impression that they were being experimented on and could be quite a while off.

Given that Steve Cole seems to prefer that the Starline 2500 minis be metal, not resin, it seems to me that you might want to get your money back, for you could be waiting for a very long time.

Wow,seems once again Mongoose has screwed up an unscrew-able deal. From what I am reading ADB took everything away from them except the RPG. What is this the third or fourth Miniatures line that mongoose lost? How long until Dredd gets pulled from them? Bad track record for a mini company? How do they still pull in suckers.. I mean clients?

Comes as no surprise. I got walloped for putting too much faith into Mongoose's ability to deliver quality resin miniatures. Lost sales, lost faith from my customers. Lost money. Owe money. :(

And the metal replacements are substandard compared to what most of the industry produces now.

I do wonder, though, if this means ADB will be churning out TONS of rulebooks, supplements, and errata for ACTA, none of which really add to the game… but which will be required reading for anyone wanting to be aware of rules-based strategies and loopholes… which is exactly the reason I went off SFB in the first place, 15 years ago. :(

Ah well. All a bit sad, really.

Yup I bought someones collection of SFB a few years back. All in nice binders sitting on a shelf never to be played again because no one wants to waste 2 hours setting up then 4 hours playing 2 turns if you have more than three ships per side.

Hi all,

I'd like to answer some of the questions I've seen today.

++

Q: I ordered the cloaked Romulans. Will I get my money back?

A: I am afraid that is between you and Mongoose. We suggest you contact them; it is our understanding that they will refund your money.

++

Q: The ship I bought is defective. What do I do?

A: Contact ADB and we'll make it right.

++

Q: What is the timeline for ACTASF/Starline 2500s?

A: We expect to do a major relaunch of the line in the first half of next year. This will include the missing Book One ships, several new ships, as well as changing the packaging and price structure.

++

Q: Why did you specify the companies remain friendly?

A: To try to cut down on the speculation that there was enmity between the companies. The truth is that because Steve Cole had to protect the integrity of the Star Fleet Universe and Matthew Sprange had to protect the integrity of the ACTA/Traveller game engines, we couldn't get anything done. Even though we agreed on everything, due dilligence meant that actually signing off on our agreement on each step for either game system meant two weeks of tedious paperwork, constantly freezing the projects in place as the designers could not move forward until the agreement was ratified. As this was obviously impractical, we negotiated "broad guidelines" within which ADB could design each product for either game engine without further approvals, speeding up the process.

++

Q: A lot of the 2500 minis had problems. Will that be an issue?

A: All of the 2500s will go through ADB's quality control checks. We are known for doing that thoroughly.

++

Q: What about the free PDF we were promised by Mongoose if we bought the original book?

A: We are, of course, going to fulfill the promise that anyone who bought Book One can get a free PDF of the corrected version. Right now, obviously, we don't have a corrected version done yet, but we expect this to happen next year. We aren't going to set a schedule for that because we don't know how long it will take to playtest the corrections.

++

Q: Steve Cole is known for his 1000+ page rulebooks. Is he going to mess up ACTASF?

A: No way! Steve has plenty to do without doing that. We already have SFB and Federation Commander and don't need a clone of those systems. The list of changes outlined in the press release are all that are needed to make ACTASF what Matthew and Steve always intended it to be.

++

If you have other questions, feel free to ask them here, on ADB's boards, or on our page on Facebook. I'll try to provide answers.

Jean

Thanks Jean! Good of you to answer people's concerns. :)

I contacted mongoose and matt has already refunded the money
For the cloaked romulans. I can't complain about the speed of response.
He also confirmed that there'd not be any 'cloaked' resin roms now.

:-(

Regards

Jim

He also confirmed that there'd not be any 'cloaked' resin roms now.

I agree. I was so looking forward to getting the cloaked resin Romulans.

I can't find the picture right now, but I saw a picture of some cloaked Rom ships that someone did. He painted the ship black, and put white star dots all over it to. It looked REALLY nice.

But I can't justify buying duplicate Rom ships and painting them as "cloaked". Though it would be easier and faster, it would cost too much. :(

We used a black golf ball on a golf tee mounted on a metal washer ala Full thrust for our cloaked ships.

Some of you have asked about what seem to be high shipping costs on our shopping cart for non-US orders. Almost nobody pays what the cart says, but the cart cannot calculate the "actual cost" (which is what we charge) and defaults to the highest of several different options. The reason for that is that the bank allows us to reduce what we charge you but not increase it. Once we get your order, Leanna calculates the "actual cost" and reduces the charge to that amount. There is really no practical way for the cart to calculate every possible shipping situation. (If you order a magazine or module it goes in an envelope. If you order a magazine and a miniature it goes it a box.) You can always email Leanna (Sales@starfleetgames.com) and tell her what you want to order. She will pull and weigh the order and calculate the actual shipping cost and tell you. (The cart will still show the higher cost but at least you'll know what the charge will be reduced to.)

We're getting a lot of totally new customers out of the recent change in the joint venture lines, and they are not aware that ADB is the single most responsive company in the industry. We answer every email and every question, and address every complaint and every issue. (Do not assume that such questions or issues will be ignored.) We make the extra effort to educate our customers into the how and why of the way our company runs, and many of them provide valuable suggestions and other input which we implement (sometimes overnight).

STARLINE MASTER STATUS REPORT: 2 December 2013
This lists only ships which are in the production pipeline. Any ship not listed here is a possible idea for future production.
================================
SHIPS ENTERING OR IN PRODUCTION
=
2500 GENERIC Free/Prime Trader and Armed Transport/Cutter. (missing Book One ship): CGI, prototype, master, production mold all done by Mongoose pre-contract change. Now in production and on sale. Will be moved to the 2425 category and sold as the Prime Trader since it is the same size as the 2400 Free Trader, which will also be moved to 2425. Entry will be deleted in a later update.
=
2425 SHUTTLES: The existing 2400 (ADB) and 2500 (Mongoose) shuttles will both remain in production and will be listed as 2425s. Players may use either or both at their option. Entry will be deleted in a later update.
=
================================
PRODUCTION MOLDS ORDERED: Expect production to begin in two or three weeks.
=
2500 Kzinti Dreadnought in metal, ordered 28 November 2013.
=
================================
MASTERS BEING REVIEWED: Expect about two weeks before production molds can be ordered.
=
2500 THOLIAN CA (missing Book One ship): CGI, prototype, master all done by Mongoose pre-contract change. Problem is that some phasers on the CGI disappeared on the prototype. On 27 Nov, we asked Bruce to send masters to Tony Thomas so he could add the phasers and do the clean-up.
=
2500 THOLIAN DD (missing Book One ship): CGI, prototype, master all done by Mongoose pre-contract change. Problem is that some phasers on the CGI disappeared on the prototype. On 27 Nov, we asked Bruce to send masters to Tony Thomas so he could add the phasers and do the clean-up.
=
2500 THOLIAN PC (missing Book One ship): CGI, prototype, master all done by Mongoose pre-contract change. Master requires the standard clean and fill work which Bruce Graw can do. On 27 Nov, we asked Bruce to send masters to Tony Thomas so he could add the phasers and do the clean-up.
=
================================
SHIPS SENT TO MASTER MOLDS
None as of this report.
================================
PROTOTYPES OF NEW SHIPS UNDER REVIEW
None as of this report.
================================
PROTOTYPES OF NEW SHIPS ORDERED: Expect two to four weeks for delivery.
=
2500 KLINGON B10 Battleship: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. 30 Nov 2013 confirmed that the last set of corrections was made and ordered prototypes to be made. NEW SHIP ORDER #2
=
2500 KZINTI NCA: the one in production is missing two phasers and therefore defective. Reported to Mongoose several times. 30 Nov 2013 issued CORRECTED SHIP ORDER #101 to fix this.
=
================================
PRODUCTION NOTES
=
2425 SERIES: We have decided to designate the non-scale generic units (bases, freighters, auxiliaries, monsters, shuttles, fighters, seeking weapons) from both 2400 and 2500 as the unified 2425 series which will be used for both scales. The future PFs will be 2425s. We may decide that some of the really minor empires (e.g., Vudar, Seltorian, Andros, any new empires) can just be designated 2425 as their low sales do not justify re-doing them in 1/3135 scale. Note that all of these either have 2500-level detail or the actual space vehicle has no real details so the miniature won't either.
=
2500 GENERIC Small Freighter (one pod) (missing Book One ship): CGI, prototype, master all done by Mongoose pre-contract change. Engine struts defective. Design discarded as it is identical to the 2400 Small Freighter. The 2400 will be redesignated 2425 and used for both scales. Therefore, it is no longer missing. Entry to be deleted in a future update.
=
2500 MOBILE BASE (missing Book One unit): CGI and prototype were done by Mongoose pre-contract change, but the resulting resin mini is not workable and was discarded. The existing 2400 Mobile Base will be designated 2425 and used for both scales. Therefore, it is no longer missing. Entry to be deleted in a future update.
=
================================
EXISTING RESIN SHIPS DISCONTINUED; SCHEDULED FOR LATER CONVERSION TO METAL
Klingon C8 Dreadnought: Status pending.
=
Romulan Condor dreadnought: status pending
=
================================
NEW CGIs IN PROCESS
=
2400 KLINGON HF5 heavy war destroyer: CGI ordered from Seattle Shipyard 14 Nov 2013. This will be a CGI ship done with high detail and will be produced in both scales. The design will be close to the 2500.
=
2400 FEDERATION new fancy ship #1: Mongoose told to start CGI work on 26 November 2013
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2400 KLINGON new fancy ship #1: Mongoose told to start CGI work on 26 November 2013
=
2400 ROMULAN SabreHawk heavy war destroyer: CGI ordered from Seattle Shipyard 14 Nov 2013. This will be a CGI ship done with high detail and will be produced in both scales. The design will be close to the 2500.
=
2425 JUMBO FREIGHTER (three pod): CGI ordered from Seattle Shipyard 16 Nov 2013. It will be produced for the 2425 series and used for both scales.
=
2500 BATTLE STATION WITH AUGMENTS (missing Book One unit): CGI and prototype were done by Mongoose pre-contract change, but the resulting resin mini is not workable and was discarded. The CGI will be rescaled to match the other 2425s and produced as the augmented battle station as part of the relaunch.
=
2500 GENERIC Heavy Freighter (four pod) (missing Book One ship): CGI and prototype were done by Mongoose pre-contract change, but were destroyed in a failed attempt to make a master. (The engine struts were defective anyway.) This must be re-CGIed to fix the engines, the re-prototyped to replace the destroyed prototype.
=
2500 GENERIC Large Freighter (two pod) (missing Book One ship): CGI, prototype, master all done by Mongoose pre-contract change. Engine struts defective. Design set aside and may be done sometime for 2425 as it is the same size as the 2400 Generic Large Freighter. For the time being, it is no longer missing.
=
2500 KLINGON D17: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. The problem is that the FX/RX phasers don't work and cannot be made to work, so we're going to set this aside and someday use the really nice design for a totally different ship.
=
2500 KLINGON HF5 heavy war destroyer: see 2400 listing.
=
2500 LYRAN Dreadnought: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. Wanted for the relaunch.
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2500 LYRAN Heavy Cruiser: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. Wanted for the relaunch.
=
2500 LYRAN Light Cruiser: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending.
=
2500 ORION Battle Raider: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. 30 Nov, determined that the last email on 8 Jan 2013 cited an error in the sensor grid; told Mongoose to fix it as NEW SHIP #1.
=
2500 ORION Battlecruiser: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Mongoose asked on 29 Nov to modify the wings and resubmit the graphics. Medium priority.
=
2500 ORION dreadnought: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Mongoose asked on 29 Nov to modify the wings and resubmit the graphics. Medium priority.
=
2500 ORION heavy battlecruiser: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Mongoose asked on 29 Nov to modify the wings and resubmit the graphics. Medium priority.
=
2500 ORION Heavy Cruiser: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Mongoose asked on 29 Nov to modify the wings and resubmit the graphics. Medium priority.
=
2500 ORION Slaver: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. Medium priority.
=
2500 ORION war destroyer: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. High priority.
=
2500 ROMULAN SaberHawk heavy war destroyer: see 2400 listing.
=
2500 ROMULAN Vulture: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. Lower priority.
=
2500 Federation Secret Ship #1: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. Unknown priority.
=
2500 THOLIAN DN: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. medium priority.
=
2500 THOLIAN TK5: CGI started by Mongoose before contract modification. Status pending. medium priority.
=
================================
POSSIBLE NEW SHIPS LIST: Fed Destroyer (DDG, DD-FJ). Gorn DNC, BB, and DBC. Romulan SeaHawk. Kzinti DD.

Thanks again, Jean, its great of you to keep all us grumpy gamers in the loop, in spite of said grumpiness. :)

But may I recommend that you either post this kind of update as a hobby news article, or at least, as a new thread? – It is likely to get lost in the clutter around here otherwise.

Is there a better topic? If there is, please point me at it. :) I'm just not as familiar as I should be with the site.

Start a new topic that would make it not get lost in this thread as a message from ADM marketing about the future of the Star fleet a call to arms as I was seriously looking at buying the product for a while, then was held back by uncertainty.

Thanks y'all. :) I wasn't sure if there were a better overall topic and you helped me figure that out.

I admit to being a tad grumpy as I noticed on the ADB BBS that certain empires/races (Andromedans, Seltorians) may not get the 2500 upgrade! I love those ship designs, a bit disappointing.

But I realize ADB is a small company with only so much time/money available, and appreciate the effort to keep us in the loop re: the relaunch.

Spudeus – I think it mentioned on the site that some of the races would have to suffer using the smaller ships of the 2400 range in both scales. As they are hardly cannon forces (ok, the Andromedans appear once in the TV show and are demonstrably not humaoid but the Seltorians?) can't the ships in the 2400 range do double duty?

I'm a fan of scales being kept where possible but couldn't the Andromedans and Seltorians just be really small aliens in small ships? :)

John T

Dear ADB Marketing

If, by chance, you are going to redesign ( just abit of tweaking the design) the Klingon ships could please fix the design flaws:

1) In a most of the cruisers, the area were the 'neck' joins the bridge is too thin,for some reason at that point the neck is pinched in, needs to be either a thicker or some braces added.

2) Were the the wrap engines are separate the gluing area is way too small for a strong or even making reasonably easy to glue
The engine stem needs a lug adding (approx 6x5mm), this lug would be hidden under the wing out of sight. I know people have used blobs of green stuff or epoxy to reinforce, I resorted to sticking strips of 0.25mm plasticard to engines so could glue in place.
3) would it be possible to have the engine/engineering block on top of rear hull separate?. Having it as a separate piece would make it easier to clean up the mold lines (would save some material costs as well).

Regretfully not got any of the other races at present.

Regards

MMG.

MMG, I'll pass this on the SVC. Feedback from customers is always appreciated. :)

John T. – by invoking 'canon' you're leaving yourself open to the counterpoint that Hydrans and Lyrans aren't either (and Kzinti barely are) – yet they are all getting the deluxe treatment.

Equal rights for bug-men!!

MMG, I got this back from Steve Cole:

Dear ADB Marketing, If, by chance, you are going to redesign ( just abit of tweaking the design) the Klingon ships could please fix the design flaws:

- – - – -
We are aware of various issues with various ships and will attend to them as we can. In some cases the only fix is to go back to the CGI file and do everything over, which is very expensive (new CGI, new prototype, new master mold, new masters to be cleaned and prepped by a master craftsman, new production molds. It can easily wipe out any profit from hundreds of ships to go all the way back to the start. In some cases we are going to try having a master craftsman fix the existing masters, which just requires a new master mold.
=========

1) In a most of the cruisers, the area were the 'neck' joins the bridge is too thin,for some reason at that point the neck is pinched in, needs to be either a thicker or some braces added.

- – - – -
We are aware of this problem and complained long and loud about it with no result. That changes now. Over time, we'll try the "master craftsman fixes the masters" route on a ship or two and see if it works. For what it's worth, the Kzinti wings are in the same situation (and a master modeller is going to try to fix that on the NCA as a test when he fixes the missing phasers), and the wings of some of the single-piece Romulans are very weak (and were replaced by Mongoose with new three-piece models just as the changeover happened.)
=========

2) Were the the wrap engines are separate the gluing area is way too small for a strong or even making reasonably easy to glue
The engine stem needs a lug adding (approx 6x5mm), this lug would be hidden under the wing out of sight. I know people have used blobs of green stuff or epoxy to reinforce, I resorted to sticking strips of 0.25mm plasticard to engines so could glue in place.

- – - – -
This is why ADB made the 2400's single piece minis. Modifying it, however, is almost certainly a "back to the CGI" process, and the idea of "lumps hidden under the ship" is something a lot of players have told us they don't want. I don't really have a solution tot his one but am asking my Starline team to look into options.
=========

3) would it be possible to have the engine/engineering block on top of rear hull separate?. Having it as a separate piece would make it easier to clean up the mold lines (would save some material costs as well).

- – - – -
Almost certainly not possible. That would require going all the way back to the CGIs. One or two of the 2400s have this feature and players really do not care for it. (Several 2300s had it and we eliminated the separate people due to customer demand.) A better solution (already done) is to shift production to a more skilled facility that should eliminate a lot of the mold line clean up.