"New 28mm Dutch Infantry released by Gothic Line !" Topic

Ok they are now available,I have just placed the Dutch Infantry on the site :
gothicline.webs.com
Arteis thank you for your father´s service in the war,as you can see there are some troops with the side cap,helmets and also some bare head ones for variety.

The soldier in the firing position on the right side has the head swap option and there are several heads provided!
gothicline.webs.com

I like those, shame about the kneeling guys who are busy posing for a photo though.

I thought the kneeling guy was reaching into his haversack, perhaps for a new clip or grenade…

Damon.

The color guide on the pack itself is a neat idea too

Thanks guys! and exactly Garand plus you can change his head or place it looking up down etc.The other one is loading his Manlicher rifle and looking the other way!
Just waiting for some of these to be painted so people can see their true potential and quite different look as their uniform color is very unusual,very different form all the WW2 uniforms in general.

Great-looking figures. Thanks for showing them. What is the submachinegun in the figure third from the top picture. Thanks

Are the optional heads already attached or can you change them around? Or are there just a variety of hats in each package thanks

These look great mate! I cant wait to get my hands on these!

Thanks Askanidog and Bobgnar here is what happens:

1- I provide a baggie with 4 extra heads both for the 2 figures without heads the other 2 in case people wish to convert these into Dutch Troops in Asia (KNIL) so there will be two Dutch slouch hats,a bare head or side cap (random),one with a helmet.

2-the next pack will have more figures prepared for head swapping,due to the "stand collar" on these it is sometimes best to make most with attached heads.

When did the dutch use the trumpet in the field?
Also, the armament of the 3rd from the right man on the third photo; never knew the dutch had this.
see eg for armament
link

I have researched before producing these and have pictures of the war with all the equipment you see.
I am now producing an Lmg Madsen.

Alway eager to learn, so please show these in use or in the organisation of the Dutch 1940 army. It could be possible that some were used by the KNIL.

brunet, do you mean the submachine gun third from LEFT in third picture? I looked at every picture of KNIL on the web and never saw a tommy gun. Would love to have included one. I am sure that somebody picked one up from a private source or was gifted from a Dutch uncle in the US. I did just find this, following the link above to the English version

"Additionally it was the navy first being interested in procuring sub-machineguns for its Marines. They bought 150 off Schmeisser MP-28 Type II. The Dutch NEI army had already about 2,000 Thompson sub-machineguns in use. Unfortunately the sub-machineguns were all procured for use in the tropics."

waroverholland.nl

A Madsen is a must. I saw many in KNIL pictures. Did a conversion to include one in my contingent.

Bicycle troops are needed too. Even a band, or a bugle on bike
link

A bugler is a good figure, also standard bearer. he should have a slung rifle, however.

Thanks guys I have a small surprise,There is a rather famous picture of a Dutch soldier holding the Thompson machine gun.I will show it soon.

If you look closely my Standard bearer has his left hand opened slightly ,I have sculpted his hand in a way so as to receive a flag pole made of of a normal medium sized paper clip,then you can use the Dutch flag I provide in the box art illustration like this :

If it is this picture you're talking about, then the chap pictured belongs to the KNIL. Note the collar style and patches; the helmet's lack of a neck flap suggests that the photo was taken in the West Indies.

My copy of Holland Paraat! also makes no mention whatsoever of a submachine gun being in use, though I seem to recall reading about Prince Bernhard toting one during the German invasion.

Also, the book explicitly states that the sole light machine gun issued to metropolitan units was the Lewis, so I don't think you should make a Madsen gunner unless he's wearing a KNIL uniform, which had a different collar to the European army's version. Something very noticeable in 28mm I think.

Other than that I think your figures look fine. I hope they will sell well enough for you to consider doing other nationalities.

Exactly!! Its a fantastic picture.Thank you very much Mad Monarchist!
Yes,this Thompson machine gun was one of the best in those days, it was found in small numbers in certain armies and some (of course) found their way into battle as the invasions began,this needs no further evidence.
gothiclineminiatures.com

It seems you've ignored the gist of my post…

Ideal, if you only have time for a short battle…

I understood it well Mad Monarchist,my answer is for the folks here who might not,so just wanted to make sure people understand the Thompson has its place there!
Remember many of us are form countries where English might not be the 1st language,do my best.
There will be more figures : Shwazlose HMG team,AT rifle team,81 Mortar,more command etc etc…working as fast as I possibly can!!!

I'm sorry for having been both irritable and unclear. What I was trying to say is that more evidence is needed.

Why? For the following reasons.
1. The photograph shows a member of the colonial army, as can be seen from the uniform he is wearing.
2. In none of my admittedly limited sources is there any mention of the home army being equipped with any submachine gun.

So unless you can show otherwise, the figure, nice as it may be, is inaccurate.

We at Gothic Line Miniatures do extensive historical research before sculpting our figures.
The Netherlands were invaded by a large military power with modern weapons and special troops like paratroopers for instance…in these events nations reach out for any and ALL WEAPONS left in the depot be it Thompsons,Madsens machine guns in all the Netherlands territory to fight the invasion…

Honestly I would have trouble differentiating the collar of a uniform at 28mm!

Also as my main aim with all miniatures is to get them on a tabletop to fight a skirmish, so the collars would be a non factor at 3 feet away. The main differentiating feature would be the colour of the uniforms (Grey Europe, green KNIL, and dark blue/black marines)

I have already placed an order for these guys as I think they look fantastic, and was searching for miniatures to use in Bolt Action. For me the SMG guys are going to be used to fill in the roles of the HQ (which by the rules can take an SMG).

Also the fact that some KNIL heads are being included would be justification enough for the inclusion of the SMG, if one was needed (which I don't think it is, more options available means that more game systems, and therefore more gamers/collectors will find the pack useful and enticing!)

As I said earlier I can't wait to get my hands on these and paint some up!

There is an unconfirmed report that the Vrijwillige Burgerwacht Amsterdam had the Erma, which is probably where Prince Bernhard got the one he had.

I dont think any Thompsons were delivered in 1940.

2000 were ordered for the KNIL, with some delivered in February 1942 (though not the full shipment as 1000 were diverted to Australia along with an additional shipment on the KPM Bantam and the Japanese reported capturing 723 on Java along with 31 Reisings).

figs seem very accurate to me and with the mass of weapons
available im sure there was more then one combination thatwere available.hats off to you at Gothic for attempting and
really doinf well bringing out such different figures

Let me first state that I think it great that someone brings out at last Dutch troops of the 1940's.
But that the army did use in these 5 days every weapon that was in the depots is imho simply wrong.
There was no time for that.
10th of may was the invasion; every soldiers was at his post and there was no time to plunder depots and using the weapons there (even if they were available)for eg second line reserves; it was over in 5 days.
It must be easy for you to give the source (other than the KNIL picture)for the 1940 Dutch European army.
And of course for the use of a trumpeter in the field (and flagbearer in 1940??)

I love the ideia of having a brand here in Portugal of 28mm.
And I did bought a few from GHOTIC LINE.

Were there Madsens and Thomspons in the depots?

Askanidog, the KNIL uniform's distinctiveness wasn't just limited to its collar. Colonial troops wore their rank and arms-of-service insignia on their collars, and had different water bottles and helmets with neck flaps. Moreover, their webbing suspenders were worn under rather than over the shoulder straps, and while rarely seen in battlefield pictures the KNIL sported chest (gas mask) pouches and klewangs. Personally I would not use 1940 Germans for Normandy games (or even 1940 French for Belgians, even if they do look similar at three feet away), but I would never ever criticise anyone else for that. Your game, your rules.

Now there is no doubt that Gothic Line has done all 28mm gamers a great service with the release of these excellent-looking figures, but what really bugs me is his unwillingness to back up his statements despite insisting on having done the proper historical research.

We are working on the next batch of Dutch troops!
Also we are sending many figures around the world as you can imagine.
Our costumers know these figures are intended for 1940 Europe but as some well intended TMP members like Askanidog and others are talking about is converting some of these figures into KNIL troops…with some green stuff it is beyond easy to place a neck flap on any figure.
To cater to our costumers we have placed extra heads with KNIL slouch hats so people can convert as they like.
We can present adequate proof here is a film for you, if you notice carefully the soldiers marching with helmets contradict what you say…right at the start of the film.
Also in the minute 31 you will see a Dutch trooper firing marching etc.with the leather webbing and pouches are the same as their European counterparts,contrary to what you say…just take a look at this film:
YouTube link

As to the collar again I think you can look at it then go take a look at the figures.

Mad Monarchist, thank you for the information on the differences. I have had quite a hard time doing much research on it, as I come at these things not from a historical point but rather from a gaming point, so often my searches are perhaps a little vague to find what I want. I also would wouldn't have picked the West Indies picture as being KNIL due to the lack of neck flap, and would have made the same assumption.

From that point of view, the exact wearing of webbing and straps doesn't bother me, and the distinctive neck flaps are easy enough to model on, the same with the klewangs. But I also appreciate your point of view and preferences and am always interested and impressed by the effort and results people put out coming from that stand point.

Perhaps Gothic Line made an honest mistake, or something has simply got lost in translation, or better yet he is sculpting more miniatures for us and doesn't have the time to reply!! (Or he could post at the same time as me and make me look foolish :-P) But I think we are all agreed that the miniatures look great and are a good start to the filling of a range that doesn't have anything yet.

Thank you very much Askanidog,but as you can see on the film webbing,straps and leather pouches were also worn by KNIL troops as were by troops in the Netherlands!
I am now working on the 81 Mortar!

Even better then Gothic Line! Don't take too long on the mortar!!

Here you can see Brown Leather straps and ammo pouches:

How did that video (fantastic!) contradict what I said? At no point did I state that the colonial troops had different webbing; I only mentioned that it was worn slightly differently. I have to admit though that the fellow guarding the wharfs in one of the pictures below has his worn in the European fashion, something you don't see in most other pictures.

As for the picture of the officer, it was taken sometime far ahead of the war, as he is wearing the older version of the colonial uniform that was introduced in the early 1910s. The main clue is the collar (which, IMHO, still looks nothing like the European uniform's) and rank patches – in the mid 1930s a new uniform was introduced with a lower and looser-fitting collar. This latter brought about the adoption of less elaborate, more rectangular patches.

link

Askanidog, I can easily accept honest mistakes, and have no issue with the damn figure being made available for purchase. Just as I have no issue with all Polish Black Brigade figures being clad in black leather coats, even if the photographic evidence suggests otherwise. That being said, I do lament the fact that Battlefront has taken the easy road in marketing their Italians as substitutes for Greeks.

I am by no means an expert on the subject, and will unashamedly concede to any point backed up by (preferably multiple) pieces of evidence or an expert's assertion. In fact, I myself am preparing to undertake a review of my existing knowledge when the next KNIL-focused volume of the utterly indispensable Holland Paraat! is published. Who knows, several of my current assumptions may be proven false.

Gothic Line, I did not mean to insult your efforts, so please don't feel embarrassed about being wrong. We all make mistakes. And like you've already stated, apart from the Thompson your figures are perfect for use against the Germans, and I can only applaud your consideration for those of gamers who have no problem working with greenstuff. Moreover, the tangential discussion on the East Indies should not be viewed as an attempt to belittle your new releases, nay, if anything, it was to show you why you need to do a separate range.

So we area greed then Mad Monarchist? Gothic Line just needs to put out more miniatures! More Dutch, both european and colonies! :D

The Thompson was made from 1921.

But lets not be rude… Dont see any need for that as all people have done is offer comments to help make accurate figures.

…by the way are you chums with Gothic? Your posts have a very similar style.

Should we put out a sock puppet alert?

While I can understand Gothic Line being protective of his hard work, this sort of "I am never wrong!" mentality, and the reaction to what I would (obviously) call constructive criticism – which you prefer to call – is astoundingly puerile.

And I'm afraid it's I who have been civil, the earlier snide remark notwithstanding. I mean, calling me a glorified couch potato?

Oh dear…

"not admiting to be wrong confronted with evidence"

Hey, look who's talking. So instead of refuting my observations (which you've paid scant attention to, as that inane non-argument on the webbing clearly shows – at no point did I state that the two armies used different webbing equipment) you prefer to insult me.

I seem to recall the Perry brothers resculpting a couple of packs from one of their ranges once a few uniform inaccuracies were pointed out? That is not to say that I expect Gothic Line to do the same, because as I've already stated the new Dutch figures are entirely suitable for games set in their homeland. Hell, I don't even think that smg-armed figure should be withdrawn. My views on the Thompson's non-existence in the Dutch metropolitan arsenal still stands, however, as none of my sources, both online and in book form, says otherwise.

Moreover, the tangential discussion on the intricacies of the Dutch colonial uniform was in no way an attempt to belittle the range; if anything, it was to illustrate why KNIL gamers should get the figures that they deserve, in the same vein that Afrika Korps players shouldn't have to paint their Blitzkrieg Germans sand. Yes, I'm opposed to the idea of you giving your current Dutch range a Madsen (here's another analogy: giving BEF figures Piats and Stens doesn't make them suitable for Market Garden), but how that can be construed as a personal attack is beyond me.

I ran into this same problem long ago with Gothic Line-- he is rather sensitive about his models and he tends to get really upset when he is criticized in any way. I didn't like his Japanese because they are very stiff sculpts and he attacked me then-- regardless of that these new Dutch are indeed excellent models. It's a shame he had to get so darn upset and get his account(s) locked…

Whether it was used in the 40 invasion or not, the Tommy Chopper is my favorite weapon. Shot it for the first time in Nam and a few times since.

Well I wish Gothic would stop sending me PMs… its all my fault!

This was after he PM me for advice on what MG to do for his Dutch… which I advised him of.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Now, does anyone do a Dutch armoured car to go with these figs?

Thank you spontoon!Here are some pictures of some Dutch troops in action,some vehicles would be great!
gothiclineminiatures.com

Really beautiful figs- quite lively.

-TPC

lovely paint jobs on superb figures!!!!!!!!!!
go Gothic Go!!
really looking forward to more New Releases!!

Thanks guys!!! Painting is time consuming but really worth it,in this case I got to mix some shades of Grey Green and even Field Blue/Grey for their smart/dashing looking antiquated WW1 style uniforms.

They are really different from all the other armies in WW2!

Although i think it is great that 1940 figures for the dutch army are available i just don't like the poses. Standardbearer and trumpeter are imho just daft, the smg not correct for western europe.