"British artillery and engineers - some questions" Topic

Question 1:

Could anyone please tell me the organisation (number of guns, in so many troops/batteries) of a 5.5" Medium regiment in NW Europe?

Question 2:

Does anyone know the division of responsibility or specialisation of the integral engineer Field Park and Field Companies (Squadrons in an armoured division) in a British division? (Can we take it as read that we know what a bridging troop/platoon did?)

Any help welcome.

Q1 – My notes say that a Medium Regiment RA had two batteries each with two troops of two sections of two guns.

1. As John says; two batteries, each with eight guns, divided up into two troops apiece. Guns were mainly 5.5s, but a very few were 4.5s and some regiments had one battery of each. The reason for this was that 4.5s had the advantage of range over the 5.5s, though lacked the considerable hitting power of 5.5s.

2. The number of Field Companies/Squadrons in a division matched the number of brigades in the division. This allowed each Field Company/Squadron to be allocated to a brigade to provide a brigade with direct engineering support, as the situation demanded. Each Field Company/Squadron had three Platoons/Troops, but note that these were large – six Sections per Platoon/Troop.

Both types of organisation were motorised, though Field Troops (of Field Squadrons/Armoured Divisions) had a slightly heavier organisation, with 2 halftracks per Troop in lieu of the usual Section 15cwts, as well as a pair of armoured Light Recce Cars (such as Morris, Humber or Otter LRCs). Field Companies would usually have a maximum of one LRC per Platoon.

Field Park Companies were basically pools of heavy engineering vehicles and equipment that could be allocated to the Field Companies/Squadrons as required. This is where you'd find the dozers, graders, cranes, etc, as well as engineering stores such as building & fortification materials.

The Field Park of 1943-45 consisted of a HQ (38 men), Workshop Platoon/Troop (40 men) and a Stores Platoon/Troop (38 men). Mechanical equipment was a single Class II and two Class IV tractors when in a Div. The Field Park ran the Div lighting set as well.

The Field Coy/Sqn consisted of a HQ (49 men) and three Platoons/Troops (each 69 men). Each Pl/Tp had its own compressor and normally deployed four Working Sections of 12 men each, with an LMG per Section.

British and Canadian WEs don't list halftracks as part of their authorised transport at any rate, so I don't know how widespread their substitution was.

Gary

Medium Regiment, RA, June 1944 link

Thank you, John, RMD, Gary and Number 4. Great, that just about sorts me out. Now I know I have enough 5.5"s and Matadors already to do a Rapid Fire medium regiment. I managed to get some of the excellent AB heavy artillery crew just before they became (temporarily) unavailable.

I have enough figures to do the men of two engineer units for Guards Armoured. I had guessed it might be right to put one in a half-track and the other in a truck to support armour and infantry respectively, and you've confirmed that is reasonable. But I'd never have thought of getting an LRC to support them!

So basically, an engineer unit could do anything, and I can add heavy equipment from the Park as required. I already have an armoured dozer and a crane. I'll enjoy putting the correctly numbered tacsigns on them.

Footslogger,

FIELD COMPANY OR SQUADRON
War Establishment II/194/2

Note: there are only 3 minor amendments during the campaign.
- One lorry 3ton 4 X 4 GS (which was for use as an office) is replaced by 3ton 4 X 4 Office.
- 2 X 15cwt 4 X 2 GS are replaced by 15cwt 4 X 4 GS
- One cook ACC is promoted to corporal

Personnel
Major
Captain
5 X Subaltern

Squadron serjeant major
squadron quartermaster serjeant
transport serjeant
4 X serjeant

6 X lance serjeant sapper class
lance serjeant driver class
11 X corporal sapper class
3 X corporal driver class
15 X lance corporal sapper class
5 X lance corporal driver class
145 X sapper
47 X driver
Total 247

plus
officers mess cook ACC
corporal cook ACC
7 X cook ACC

Tradesmen
7 X blacksmith
13 X bricklayer
32 X carpenter and joiner
5 X clerk
4 X concretor
draughtsman architectural
draughtsman, mechanical
5 X driver mechanic, driver class
10 X driver operator
4 X electrician, maintenance
11X engine fitter, IC and pumps
6 X engine hand IC
6 X masons
3 X miners
7 X painter and decorator
58 X general dutyman
6 X motorcyclist
4 X plumbers and pipe fitters
surveyor, engineering
3 X sheet metal worker
2 X vehicle mechanic, driver class
3 X water dutyman
Total 194

Non tradesmen
2 X batman
5 X batman driver
26 X driver of vehicle
sanitary dutyman
4 X transport NCO
water dutyman
Total 39

Transport
16 X motorcycle
3 X jeep
2 X light recce car
7 X truck 15cwt GS
3 X 15cwt compressor
1 X 15cwt water
7 X 15cwt personnel 4 X 4
13 X 3ton 4 X 4 GS
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 winch
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 office

HEADQUARTERS
Major
Captain
2 X Subaltern

Squadron Serjeant Major
squadron quartermaster serjeant
transport serjeant
serjeant

lance serjeant driver class
2 X corporal sapper class
3 X lance corporal sapper class
2 X lance corporal driver class
13 X sapper
17 X driver
Total 46

plus
officers mess cook ACC
2 X Cook ACC

blacksmith
bricklayer
2 X carpenter and joiner
2 X clerk
concretor
draughtsman architectural
2 X driver mechanic, driver class
4 X driver operator
electrician, maintenance
2 X engine fitter, IC and pumps
painter and decorator
general dutyman
3 X motorcyclist
plumbers and pipe fitters
surveyor, engineering
2 X vehicle mechanic, driver class
Total 26

Drivers IC for duty as
2 X batman
2 X batman driver
5 X driver of vehicle
sanitary dutyman
transport NCO
water dutyman
Total 12

Transport
7 X motorcycle
2 X light recce car
1 X truck 15cwt GS
1 X 15cwt water
1 X 15cwt personnel 4 X 4
5 X 3ton 4 X 4 GS
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 winch

15cwt 4 X 4 will be fitted with a wireless set.
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 will be for use as an office.

4 X Bren gun
2 X PIAT
1 X 20mm AA

Each company carried the following
2,400 primers
672 slabs of TNT
1200 lb of plastic explosive 808
900lb of ammonal
72 X 10lb Beehive charges
3 X camouflet sets
detonators and fuses
6 X mine detector
72 X No 75 grenades (mines)

Each company also had one RASC 3ton lorry in the divisional troops company to carry an identical load

Platoon.
There were three platoons to a company.
A platoon consisted of a headquarters and four sections.

Personnel
Subaltern
serjeant

2 X lance serjeant sapper class
3 X corporal sapper class
4 X lance corporal sapper class
lance corporal driver class
44 X sapper
10 X driver
Total 67

plus
2 cooks ACC

Tradesmen included
2 X blacksmith
4 X bricklayer
10 X carpenter and joiner
clerk
concretor
driver mechanic, driver class
2 X driver operator, driver class
electrician, maintenance
3 X engine fitter, IC and pumps
2 X engine hand
2 X painter and decorator
19 X general dutyman
motorcyclist
plumber and pipe fitter
sheet metal worker
stoker
waterman
Total 26

Drivers IC for duty as
batman driver
transport NCO
7 X Driver of vehicle
Total 9

Organisation
All transport was at platoon headquarters
Motorcycle 1
serjeant
Motorcycle 2
transport corporal
Motorcycle 3
motorcyclist

Car 5cwt 4 X 4 (jeep)
Subaltern, batman driver

Truck 15cwt GS 1
driver IC
Truck 15cwt GS 2
driver IC

15cwt machinery compressor
driver IC
15cwt personnel 4 X 4 1
lance corporal driver operator, driver operator
Carries Wireless set No19
15cwt personnel 4 X 4 2
driver IC

3ton 4 X 4 GS 1
driver IC
3ton 4 X 4 GS 2
driver IC
3ton 4 X 4 GS 3
driver IC
3ton 4 X 4 winch
driver mechanic

The above transport also carried
1 X clerk
2 X cook
4 X other unidentified personnel

2 PIAT

800 primers
224 slabs of TNT in 4.5" slabs or gun cotton in 6" slabs.
400lb of explosive 808 (plastic explosive) in 1.37" X 3.5" rolls
300lb of ammonal in 25 lb blocks (9" cubes)
24 X 10lb Beehive cutting charges
1 X camouflet set for making holes for charges
Detonators and fuse.
4 X mine detector

There were four sections each of 12 men.
Each section had a corporal or lance serjeant as leader.
It is not recorded which craftsmen were in which section. This was probably arranged at company or platoon level.
Each section had
Bren gun
Sten gun
10 X rifle.

Troop
In an armoured division the platoon was called a troop. There were some differences in personnel and vehicles from the platoon in an infantry division.
There were three troops to a squadron.
A troop consisted of a headquarters and four sections.

Personnel
Subaltern
serjeant

2 X lance serjeant sapper class
3 X corporal sapper class
4 X lance corporal sapper class
lance corporal driver class
44 X sapper
13 X driver
Total 67

plus
2 cooks ACC

Tradesmen included
2 X blacksmith
4 X bricklayer
10 X carpenter and joiner
clerk
concretor
driver mechanic, driver class
2 X driver operator, driver class
electrician, maintenance
3 X engine fitter, IC and pumps
2 X engine hand
2 X painter and decorator
19 X general dutyman
motorcyclist
plumbers and pipe fitters
sheet metal worker
stoker
waterman
Total 26

Drivers IC for duty as
batman driver
transport NCO
10 X Driver of vehicle
Total 9

Organisation
All transport was at troop headquarters
Motorcycle 1
serjeant
Motorcycle 2
transport corporal
Motorcycle 3
motorcyclist

Car 5cwt 4 X 4 (jeep)
Subaltern, batman driver

Light Reconnaissance Car
driver IC
For the use of the Subaltern for reconnaissance and liaison

Truck 15cwt GS 1
driver IC
Truck 15cwt GS 2
driver IC
15cwt machinery compressor
driver IC
15cwt personnel 4 X 4 1
lance corporal driver operator, driver operator
Carries Wireless set No19
15cwt personnel 4 X 4 2
driver IC
15cwt personnel 4 X 4 3
driver IC
15cwt personnel 4 X 4 4
driver IC

3ton 4 X 4 GS 1
driver IC
3ton 4 X 4 GS 2
driver IC
3ton 4 X 4 GS 3
driver IC
3ton 4 X 4 winch
driver mechanic

The above transport also carried
1 X clerk
2 X cook
4 X other unidentified personnel

2 PIAT

800 primers
224 slabs of TNT in 4.5" slabs or gun cotton in 6" slabs.
400lb of explosive 808 (plastic explosive) in 1.37" X 3.5" rolls
300lb of ammonal in 25 lb blocks (9" cubes)
24 X 10lb Beehive cutting charges
1 X camouflet set for making holes for charges
Detonators and fuse.
4 X mine detector

There were four sections each of 12 men.
Each section had a corporal or lance serjeant as leader.
It is not recorded which craftsmen were in which section. This was probably arranged at company or platoon level.
Each section had
Bren gun
Sten gun
10 X rifle.

I've positively identified halftracks in 7th, 11th and Guards Armoured Divisions' REs through photographs and written accounts, the most detailed accounts being those first-hand accounts and after-action reports concerning 4 Fd Sqn's (7 AD) defence of Wetteren, where the .50s mounted on the two halftracks and the .30s mounted on the two LRCs in each troop were instrumental to the defence.

I think the WE must have increased between 1942 & 55: The same accounts re Wetteren also positively identify 18x Sections (6 per Tp), with Section positions identified (one of the 18 still being in France at the time).

18x Sections also seems to have been standard for Fd Coys, confirmed in a number of op orders from Normandy and the Netherlands (as well as Burma).

Thanks again. BF Andy – I hope, I really, really hope, you didn't have to type all that…..

, I meant '1942 & 44' above, not '1942 & 55'!

Yep, Andy's brilliant for primary source material, though I'm certain that the WE had been increased to 6 Sections per Tp by 1944, as mentioned above.

Re the LRCs: Yes, engineer recce was and is an essential task. For example, if you want to know if a road or bridge can take the weight of your tanks, you need to send a qualified engineer to go and have a look, so that's what the LRCs are for.

Here are some RE Morris LRCs in Normandy. Note the '51' AoS serial, which would be on a cobalt blue square. It's impossible to tell which divisions, but being Morris LRCs, they probably belong to British Infantry Divisions. The Armoured Divisions tended to use Humbers (though the Poles used Morris) and the Canadians tended to use Otters in the role:

Here's a restored one marked up for 43rd (Wessex) Div REs:

Here's a Morris LRC of 1st Polish Armoured Division Engineers, leading a column of halftracks and 15cwt trucks. It's clearer in a better version of the photo and another photo from the same sequence also clearly shows the markings:

Here's an RCE Otter belonging either to 2nd or 3rd Canadian Infantry Divisions in Caen:

Very interesting.

As for:
800 primers
224 slabs of TNT in 4.5" slabs or gun cotton in 6" slabs.
400lb of explosive 808 (plastic explosive) in 1.37" X 3.5" rolls
300lb of ammonal in 25 lb blocks (9" cubes)
… imagine being paid to play with that!

Cheers R Mark, possibly they swapped a 15-cwt personnel out for a halftrack in the same way the Recce Regts did, so it never showed up in the paperwork.

Six Sections could well be right, as the RE WEs don't have an organization table after 1940. The last one that did shows a Section (later Platoon or Troop) with its '48 working men' carried in four 30-cwt lorries, each with a Cpl/L-Sjt and 11 sappers, plus driver. That could easily have become six Sections of 8 men each later on. The number of NCOs hadn't changed though, and the issue of four LMGs does point to retaining four Sections; possibly the surfeit of personnel at Pl/Tp HQ could be formed up into additional Sections when required?

Gary

Ah yes, the old 'Truck 15cwt' in the WE meaning anything from a Dodge Weapons Carrier to a Halftrack! We've seen that before! :)

Just had a check back through the Cdn WEs, and they show seven 15-cwt trucks, armoured, in place of the seven 15-cwt trucks, personnel, on the British WEs. Haven't we been down the route of armoured trucks and halftracks before with the Canadians, eh?

Funnily enough, that does for once undoubtedly mean armoured trucks as opposed to halftracks or bloody White Scout Cars… :)

I do have a photo of a Royal Canadian Engineers C15TA armoured truck somewhere.

Interesting to see every vehicle in the Troop being armoured though. I've found nothing to indicate that any more than a handful of vehicles in RE Troops were armoured.

Was it the same for every vehicle in a Canadian Field Squadron? And what about Canadian Field Companies? Did they get C15TAs as well?

Still plenty of "B" vehicles in the Cdn Tp/Pl, Jeep, two 15-cwt GS, a 3-ton GS, then four 3-tonners with derrick, which is different from the Br WE. Cdns used the same modifications to the Field Coy to make it a Field Sqn for armd formations.

Gary

As a minor addition to the theme of "engineers in half tracks" I recall that there were some RE half tracks stuffed with explosives accompanying C Squadron of the Inns of Court, with the post D-Day mission of making a dash for and blowing up some bridges, an over-ambitious scheme soon abandoned, but not before one of those half tracks was blown up. Not the ideal vehicle for travelling in Normandy.

Airborne Divisions were similar except in the vehicles issued, most of the heavy equipment was trailer mounted.