"Colour of "Apostles" -- What's Right ???" Topic

I found an old (2008) thread on this but wonder if newer information has come to light.

That thread suggested that any "wood" colour or blue for the New Model Army and occasionally red were all correct.

Well I'm building an early Royalist force (so I don't care what the NMA used). What colour of "apostle" would be most common for them?

-- Jeff

Anything from a natural wood colour to dark chocolate brown.

Some were wood some were even covered in leather. Real early stuff was very haphazard even powder bags being used.

As I think you might be aware The one term 'Apostle' is a modern anachronism. Bandolier or collar was usually used with the actual containers called bottles or chargers.

But if he called them bottles or chargers, many of us who could answer his question wouldn't know what he was talking about. Sometimes common usage comes in handy.

morrigan is correct. I did know that "Apostles" wasn't a contemporary term, but what else would have worked as a designation understood by all?

I am thankful, by the way, for all of your responses.

-- Jeff

So when did they become known as 'Apostles' if it wasn't a contemporary term used by the musketeers themselves?

If the term is an anachronism it is an elegant one. It isn't mentioned in the OED. I gather they were called apostles because there were around 12 carried.

A quick search shows the term used by a museum website (on the wreck at Alderney), but someone challenged this and said they knew of no example before 1960!

Can anyone provide an earlier attestation?

I usually try to paint mine a shade or two lighter than the leather of the leather bandolier, just so they can stand out and be discerned as a separate entity.

Sir Calidore is right, there is no evidence of the them being called "Apostles" before 1960s.

The various drill manuals of the day refer to them as charges as in "handle your charge".

There is in Farndon Parish Church Cheshire a contemporary stained glass window, showing a musketeer his charges being Yellow.

There is a problem with it, there is sum evidence that in time red in stained glass window will fade to yellow.

The one thing the wooden ones would have been treated(not left natural wood) painted or oiled to protect them against the weather.

I have a vague memory of them being painted blue in the New Model

Timbo – yup, there is a surviving order specifying that the bottles being purchased were to be blue. I seem to recall that the unit they were ordered for were the dragoons.

Some surviving examples have lead/pewter tops. You might try looking at reproductions from Paul Meekins. He has a UK website called bandolier's for Musketeers or something very similar.

As for the actual colouring – for practical purposes all evidence suggests that they were always painted (bare wood would very quickly rot from getting wet and dry regularly. Contemporary and near contemporary documents refer to the actual bottles being painted red, black or blue – noteably these are all the cheapest of contemporary paints. The New Model contracts are, of course, well known and specify that ALL bottles should be painted blue with blue and white cords, the Fairfax livery colours. This latter being so it would suggest a change to black with black and white cords when Cromwell became Lord General.

I don't know if anyone has examined the surviving items for traces of colour but after 300 years it is unlikely that much evidence would survive. Does anyone know if any of those in the numerous museums HAS been examined ?

On a practical note, my reproduction set were painted black when I got them in the late 80's. since then most of the colour has worn off. They are now a dark black brown. I didn't reprint them I have just oiled them with a little linseed oil at the end of each season. They show a small amount of shrinkage but not much. So I would suggest that for early war a dark brown would be fine