"How were MGs and bazooka teams assigned in platoons?" Topic

This has always confused me no matter what I have read, so perhaps folks at TMP can help me out.

When a US platoon was assigned a .30cal machine gun team or a bazooka team, how were these teams assigned within the platoon? Were they assigned to one of the squads to operate with that squad, following that squad leader's orders?

Were they assigned to the platoon's commander, and then he ordered them about independently, deploying them into position depending on the situation, such as supporting an assault or giving a squad extra firepower?

What about for the Brits and Germans?

I'd really appreciate help understanding the C&C of these support weapon teams.

For the US, the 30cals and bazookas would be handled quite differently. The 30cals were part of the company weapons platoon. They were a distinct part of the table of organization. Each 30cal was considered a section and would have its own NCO and gunners, loaders, ammo carriers, etc. The 30cal would be assigned wherever it was needed and if attached to one of the rifle platoons it would operate under the orders of the platoon commander.

Bazookas were an entirely different animal. There were no 'bazooka teams' in the table of organization. There were 5 bazookas issued to each rifle company, but they were just pieces of equipment, no personnel came with them. It was up to the company commander to decide what to do with them. Men had to be found to use them and these had to come from the platoons or the company HQ. So you might find a bazooka with each platoon or you might not. It would vary from company to company.

Yea, for the USA, usually in a separate weapons section for it.

Germans had at least one MG, per squad, if not two, sometimes. They were classed as LMGs, and the squad personnel were mainly there to protect the MG gunner, and to carry ammo for him. The LMG was the squad's primary weapon, in terms of overal German doctrine.

Not sure about the British, but suspect they may be similar to the Americans.

As for bazookas, and other A/T weapons (panzerschrecks, and panzerfausts, etc.), they'd probably be handed out at/by the platoon commander, when they had them, as needed/desired.

According to Bayonetstrength officially each British infantry company had three PIATs held at the company HQ level. The arrangement seems to have been like the US- it was a piece of equipment without dedicated men. In practice, each platoon seems to have been assigned one and there was a dedicated PIAT man selected from the men in each platoon. I'm taking this from "Fear is the Foe" where the author was a PIAT operator.

Certainly in the US T/Os I've seen there's only one that refers to specific operators for Bazookas, and that's the May 1945 USMC Bn. All the others just show the weapons under Coy HQ or with the Wpns Pl to be dished out as required (with a minimum allowance of one per Rifle Pl).

For the British same thing with PIATs, weapons held by Coy HQ at a scale allowing one per Rifle Pl, but no distinct PIAT operator outside of two units; the Commando Tp of 1943 and the Inf Bn Type "B" of Apr 1945, which ironically enough was for RA Regts converted to the infantry garrison role…

German units almost always had specific personnel allocated for Panzerschrecks, but not Panzerfausts. There was a brief period where Panzerschrecks were shown as being issued as one per Squad in Pz Gren Coys, but from 1944 onwards you generally see a distinct subunit within a Bn or Coy handling the weapons.

Gary

Thanks for the info, guys. This is very interesting.

So adding a bazooka to a 12-man squad wouldn't really add any extra men, just a bazooka or two that those already in the squad would man? While in some lucky situations the company's weapons platoon might send a couple guys to fire and carry the bazooka ammo? Does this sound right?

BTW hats off to the PIAT operators. They had to have had balls of iron to fire those weapons so close to enemy armor!

Mister Tibbles- you're right about the PIAT operators. An awful lot of medals were won by those men. They also were only armed with a revolver and six rounds. In "Fear is the Foe", the author carried a liberated MP40 and that saved his life. The later pictures show most of the PIAT operators carrying a Sten or even a Thompson.

One advantage that the PIAT had was that it could be fired from within buildings which was useful in house to house fighting. I suspect that this is why the British didn't use a grenade launcher much.

It might add a couple of extra men or it might not. If a squad needed a bazooka, the platoon or company commander might assign a couple of men to take the bazooka and join the squad, or they might just send the bazooka and the rockets to the squad and let them provide the crew. Either situation is possible.

While in some lucky situations the company's weapons platoon might send a couple guys to fire and carry the bazooka ammo?

Sounds a bit unlikely to me. According to TOE, weapons platoon does not really have any spare manpower reserves that could be assigned as bazooka crews. Of course it would be possible to assign two ammo bearers from one of the MG/mortar teams as a bazooka crew, but this would have negative effect on the primary task of the weapons platoon (ie. to provide substantial anti-infantry firepower).

Of course the weapons platoon could have a bazooka or two assigned to it, but I would expect these to have been kept primarily in reserve, and only broken out when really needed.

wrt MGs, in both British and German sections, LMGs were integral section weapons although there are odd instances of commanders massing such weapons into 'LMG sections' this was unusual.

British tripod MGs wre allocated from brigade/div MG companies, usually as minimum of a secion of two guns and operated under the ordes of the unit/subunitcommander.

German tripod MGs were also in theory part of the battalion MG company although some organisations have asections of 2-3 guns assigned at company level. Again, weapons in a sustained fire role usually operate in groups so fire can actually be susained.

British infantry companies usually a few tripod mounts for Brens as well, for use for fring on fixed lines, or these could be field improvised using ropes and logs, as per the relevant section in the manual.

The company commanders were given total freedom in how they used/issued the bazookas in their companies. Some just issued the on down to the platoons or squads, others created bazooka units with dedicated & trained crews, most seem to have just kept them at HQ and issued them as needed. The same happened with the extra BARs & Thompsons that were issued to the CHQ.

I am going to share a hunch based on my experience, not however based on something from a book. Marine organization has been very much the same from Now all the way back to about 1944. Bazookas, .30 cal MG's ,Flamethrowers ,60mm mortars. Are all assigned to an Infantry company. The equipment for a platoon is based on 2 things. What the company has available (including what they can appropriate ) and what is the need for a specific mission. A Corporal would be assigned as the gunner for a particular MG. He would then be required to be "The expert " on the use,repair and set up of that weapon system. The Corporals A-gunner would be either his team mate (even another Corporal) but could be a L/CPL or private. And that person would be expected to unflinchingly step in and take over in the event the Corporal was killed. The Bazooka team is the absolute last ditch effort to stop deadly armor (or close support against bunkers) Available to the company commander. Therefore even though it is unspoken ,I suspect that Bazooka teams would be organized the same way as the MG teams. Funny thing about the Marines and the Army especially the Infantry. It doesn't matter if you want it but when the CO or the Company Gunny comes along and tells you you own it then you don't have a choice. One last thing. Everyone carries extra ammo for The weapons teams. Because if your a Grunt and you don't carry it with you when you need it you won't have it.

Sometimes I have seen suggestions that the "basics" in a US infantry company HQ would have been tasked with handling the bazookas. However, considering that these men were intended to act as a replacement pool to cover losses in rifle platoons, and were probably pretty green, they might not be the ideal choice for bazooka crews – when the panzers actually roll in, you probably want to have some cool-headed veterans handling those rocket launchers.

On the other hand, does anybody know when US army rifle company TOEs started to officially feature dedicated anti-tank crews? I am aware that the early 60's TOEs feature dedicated anti-tank team in platoon weapons squad, but were those encountered also earlier on?

The changes to the Airborne Bns of late 1945 do, but to handle the recoilless rifles being brought into service rather than the bazookas, which would be expected for proper crew-serviced weapons like the RRs. I've not got anything past 1945 to view against.

Gary

British platoons had 3 LMG's – one per section, but the platoon commander could and often did group these into Bren section to provide a base of fire in an assault. Point platoons were also commonly augmented by extra dismounted Bren teams from the battalion's Carrier Platoon.

British battalions were somewhat unique in not having an MMG company at battalion level, unlike the Germans, US or Russians; as Martin says, the Vickers MG's were attached from division HQ

The reality is different battalion's acquired as much stuff as possible, I remember reading that the DLI in one company had x3 Brens than they should have had, even today grab what you can.

In Delaforce's book on the 15th Scottish Division, he states that the 2nd Argylls were so short of men in October 1944, that each company formed a battlegroup of 43 men with 7 Brens, 2 PIATs, 2 mortars (2" I assume) and sprinkling of riflemen.

"Sometimes I have seen suggestions that the "basics" in a US infantry company HQ would have been tasked with handling the bazookas."

Post the Normandy landings those CHQ basics were used up and rarely able to be replaced.

43 men with 7 Brens, 2 PIATs, 2 mortars is roughly two platoons; they were obviously disbanding the 3rd platoon in each company – pretty much standard procedure. Late war, sections of five or six riflemen and a Bren were quite common.

Yes, 43rd Div did much the same thing in August 44. Companies with two 20 man platoons and all the Brens they could get their hands on including those from the AA and carrier platoons (which ended up at 6-7 guns per platoon).