| Kaoschallenged | 20 Oct 2013 2:17 p.m. PST |
Just a quick question, Did the US Army ever use the Command version of the M3 Stuart? Robert |
| shaun from s and s models | 21 Oct 2013 1:08 a.m. PST |
there are pics of a turret less m8 hmc, (stuart with 75mm how)
in nwe, but not sure about stuart tanks though.
not like the british use of them. |
| Richard Baber | 21 Oct 2013 3:12 a.m. PST |
In Tunisia, M3A1s (with radios) were used by platoon/company commanders. The basic M3 (only used during Torch and into Tunisia) didn`t have a radio?? [very odd for the period] |
Mark 1  | 21 Oct 2013 12:10 p.m. PST |
All production Stuart tanks had radios. No version was built without. The US in general did not have separate "command tanks", but rather just had an extra radio in some tanks (for command, artillery observation and air liaison). The differences between the M3 and the M3A1 were:
1 ) a new turret: rounded form rather than the angular flat plate of the M3, no cupola, and a turret basket. (A few M3s were given the new turret but no basket.)
2 ) removal of the hull sponson MGs M3s saw service with the British (under British designation Stuart 1), with the US Army in the Philippines, and with US forces on Guadalcanal. I would be interested to see any credible sources indicating M3s in action with US forces in French North Africa. I don't think any M3s came ashore with American forces during Torch. By the time American forces reached Tunisia even M3A1s were in the minority, with most US light tank companies being equipped with M5 Stuarts (new sloped hull and twin Cadillac engines). British forces operated a fair number of turretless Stuarts in MTO and ETO. This was a simple modification to remove the turret and mount an MG, as it was observed that the Stuart was too lightly armed and armored to be of much use in combat, and was better served in the scouting role by a lower profile and better crew visibility. These were termed Stuart Recce tanks. Or so I understand. -Mark
(aka: Mk 1) |
| Kaoschallenged | 21 Oct 2013 4:40 p.m. PST |
This is the version I war referring to. So I take it as a no that the US didn't. Robert |
| Mark 1 | 21 Oct 2013 8:28 p.m. PST |
Kaos-
That's a very interesting photo! (But then you have a track record of digging up interesting primary source materials.) I have not seen any reference to purpose-built turretless command versions of the M3 in US Army service. The recall seeing command versions of the Combat Cars (pre-war cavalry tanks). But not in wartime service. Of course it is hard to prove a negative. So I can only say I haven't seen them. -Mark
(aka: Mk 1) |
| Kaoschallenged | 21 Oct 2013 9:06 p.m. PST |
Thanks Mark, It sorta reminds me of the Command version of the Semovente da 75/18. Robert
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| Trockledockle | 22 Oct 2013 10:50 a.m. PST |
According to Tanks in Detail Light Tank M5 and M5A1- Terry Gander, many US units unofficially removed the turrets of their Stuarts. During 1944, some were officially converted with a MG ring over the old turret ring and called a limited standard T8 Reconnaissance Vehicle. It seems that there was also an M5 Command vehicle. There are clear pictures of both of these in the book (pages 69-71) including one of the commander of the 6th Armored Division using one. The same picture is in British & American Tanks of WWII by Chamberlain and Ellis (page 94).So in reply, the US army did use turretless Stuarts but they were M5s and not M3s. |
| Kaoschallenged | 22 Oct 2013 1:27 p.m. PST |
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| Kaoschallenged | 22 Oct 2013 2:39 p.m. PST |
So far I can't only find a actual photos of it yet. Just British versions. Robert |
| number4 | 22 Oct 2013 2:47 p.m. PST |
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| Kaoschallenged | 22 Oct 2013 6:39 p.m. PST |
Thanks number4!!! I'm surprised that they didn't use the M8 turret. Robert |
| Trockledockle | 23 Oct 2013 12:22 p.m. PST |
Kaos- send me an email and I'll send you a scan. The picture from Number 4 is one of the ones in the Tanks in Detail book. |
| Trockledockle | 24 Oct 2013 1:10 p.m. PST |
Here's the picture and some others. link |
| Kaoschallenged | 24 Oct 2013 2:13 p.m. PST |
Thanks Trockledockle. Interesting that one was converted from an M8 75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage. And that its on a page on the Russian Tanks of World War II sight LOL. Robert |
| Hornswoggler | 27 Oct 2013 3:21 a.m. PST |
Zaloga's US Light Tanks at War 1941-45 (Concord) has that same photo of the decapitated M8 on p59. It is captioned as follows: Col.Groves, who commanded the ordnance battalion in the 6th Armored Division had his troops convert a number of M8 75mm HMC to armored command vehicles in the autumn of 1944. This is one of the vehicles in service with one of the division's brigadier generals. |
| Kaoschallenged | 27 Oct 2013 12:08 p.m. PST |
Yup. I forgot to add the caption. Robert |
| Hornswoggler | 27 Oct 2013 8:02 p.m. PST |
That caption is for the third picture from the top in the link Trockledockle posted… |
opens the box on the Armoured Panzergrenadier Company HQ (Late-War) for Flames of War.
