| Edwulf | 04 Nov 2013 4:40 a.m. PST |
The whole of TMP? Can't say I do.. But I think his edited post may have been edited before I read it. But nothing he said struck me as a swipe at the entire membership. |
| Peeler | 04 Nov 2013 5:37 a.m. PST |
"Square head" was commonly used by Brits in the Commando cartoon books. I thought it was to do with German helmets. |
| Whirlwind | 04 Nov 2013 11:31 a.m. PST |
@TW, I wonder if the Editor meant this one: I must apologise for using the term Neanderthals when referring to some of the site's members. Not apologise to the members but to the Neanderthals who were obviously far more intelligent. And they didn't need stifles either! Although not strictly 'everyone' (everyone would include you and Kevin right?), this one was pretty wide-ranging I guess. |
| Flecktarn | 04 Nov 2013 11:35 a.m. PST |
Peeler, I have heard that version too; however, the term has been in use in Germany long before that helmet came into use. Jurgen |
| Peeler | 04 Nov 2013 12:08 p.m. PST |
Righto, maybe the British book writer heard it & just thought "oh yes, that'll do nicely" :) |
| Chouan | 04 Nov 2013 2:00 p.m. PST |
Neither my father, nor my grandfather ever used the expression, neither did any of my uncles. They all served in one or other of the world wars, so I would imagine that it was a relatively modern, ie post-war expression. |
| Flecktarn | 04 Nov 2013 2:14 p.m. PST |
From what I was told a long, long time ago when I was a very little Jurgen, the expression came about because of a view that people from the more northern parts of Germany have heads that are somewhat more square than is common among Europeans. Have a look at this for an example of the type: link Jurgen |
| M C MonkeyDew | 04 Nov 2013 2:37 p.m. PST |
A good friend of mine was Norwegian born. He used to call other Norwegians "square heads". He was a WWII vet and from what I gathered he learned the term when he was a child. Bob |
| Peeler | 04 Nov 2013 3:27 p.m. PST |
Yes, I'd say post war, as you say, none of my older relatives used the term either.
Hindenburg – I see the squareness there :) |
| Chouan | 05 Nov 2013 2:43 a.m. PST |
The bloke in question used to repeat, with monotonous regularity a joke about it.
One Frieslander asks another, "Why do you have a square head?" he responds by slapping himself on the forehead and replies "Ach, I don't know"…..
He thought it amusing….. |
| TelesticWarrior | 05 Nov 2013 3:19 a.m. PST |
Whirlwind, Gazz made it quite clear that he was only referring to some people in this discussion when he wrote "when referring to SOME of the site's members".
So SOME members. Not all, by any stretch, and anyway he was only talking about some of the people on the Napoleonic boards, not TMP in general. This much is obvious.
So the stated reason for his expulsion does not necessarily make sense. |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 3:47 a.m. PST |
Chouan, German humour:(. Jurgen |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 3:51 a.m. PST |
TelesticWarrior, It really is not worthy you getting so worked up about Gazzola's banishment; all that you are doing is reinforcing a view that many already have of you as an intemperate individual. Mr Armintrout has banished Gazzola; it is his site, it is not a democracy and he does not need to provide an explanation for that banishment that satisfies you. Gazzola was an obnoxious person and we are better off without him; get over his banishment and move on. Jurgen |
| Edwulf | 05 Nov 2013 5:21 a.m. PST |
"Gazzola was an obnoxious person and we are better off without him; get over his banishment and move on" Yes quite.
An age of good manners and civility is upon us. The Napoleonic Boards might even lose the "frothing lunatic" reputation now. |
| ColonelToffeeApple | 05 Nov 2013 5:39 a.m. PST |
Gazzola is no longer on the boards to defend himself and personally I regard any continued slights as bad form and not in the least indicative of good manners or civility. |
| TelesticWarrior | 05 Nov 2013 5:48 a.m. PST |
Well said ColonelToffeeApple. You seem to be one of the few people with any honour or basic good manners left around here. |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 5:48 a.m. PST |
Edwulf, I suspect that there will still be frothing and lunatics, although possibly not in the same person. Jurgen |
| TelesticWarrior | 05 Nov 2013 6:00 a.m. PST |
Flecktarn, Yes, this is not a democracy. How very insightful of you to notice. I would suggest that I am not getting "worked up", I am just responding to points as they are directed to me. It is called a discussion. Feel free to end your nonsense at any point, then I will be free to stop replying.
As for defending Gazzola, I already told you that I would raise an objection about anyone (yourself or Edwulf included) who got banished, if the reasons for that banishment were not clear or did not make sense. As for intemperance, your rude and obnoxious behaviour is clear for everyone to see, as is your obvious deliberate baiting of others, as well as your constant inability to address the key points every time they are raised. You will slink away and make your excuses, as is your custom, then raise the exact same easily refuted nonsense on another thread in a slightly different way. You are here primarily to bait people and cause a stink, and then run away when someone exposes you for it. That much is clear to me now. Many of us have a big number of stifles to our name, but to get 263 in the space of a few months is beyond the pale, and unrivalled in TMP history. You should take a long look at the fragility of the windows in the your own glass house rather than constantly throwing stones at others. |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 6:27 a.m. PST |
TelesticWarrior, It appears that you are attempting to take over from the late Gazzola; have fun with that:). Jurgen |
| TelesticWarrior | 05 Nov 2013 7:03 a.m. PST |
Thanks for proving me correct; you can't address the key points.
You just cause trouble and slink away again, until the coast is clear to continue the exact same process on another thread at a later date. Have fun with that. |
| Peeler | 05 Nov 2013 7:14 a.m. PST |
Now come on people, enough of the mutual face slapping! :) |
| TelesticWarrior | 05 Nov 2013 8:45 a.m. PST |
This is the Halloween thread, no matter how many times you kill it, it just gets up and keeps coming at you. |
| Chouan | 05 Nov 2013 9:01 a.m. PST |
Jurgen, I sailed with a Third Mate for about 4 months who, every morning when I came up to the Bridge (I was Second Mate) would say "You for coffee?" but pronounced as "You fuc-off-ee?" and then grin and snigger like an idiot. Every bloody day for 4 months…… It was only mildly amusing the first time.
British humour, for God's sake….. |
| TelesticWarrior | 05 Nov 2013 9:07 a.m. PST |
Flecktarn,
You for coffee? |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 9:45 a.m. PST |
Chouan, I can imagine that being at sea would have an effect like that on some people. It appears that being on TMP has that effect on some as well. Perhaps TMP cannot survive without a Gazzola-like figure; once one is banished another arises to take over the role. Jurgen |
| Brechtel198 | 05 Nov 2013 9:48 a.m. PST |
Col Toffee Apple and Telestic Warrior, I agree completely with both of you here. And to continue to denigrate someone who is not here is cowardly to my mind, but that's only an opinion of course. It is amazing that this thread keeps going for no apparent reason but to insult people. Of course, that is the way of both Flecktarn and Chouan, so I guess it is just to be expected. B |
| GeneralRetreat | 05 Nov 2013 10:11 a.m. PST |
hehehe – "you for coffee" – nice one chouan |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 10:28 a.m. PST |
Sadly, that just would not work in German:(. Jurgen |
| Chouan | 05 Nov 2013 10:29 a.m. PST |
"It is amazing that this thread keeps going for no apparent reason but to insult people. Of course, that is the way of both Flecktarn and Chouan, so I guess it is just to be expected." What? Where did that come from? Who have I insulted? |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 10:34 a.m. PST |
Chouan, You have to understand that Brechtel is free to make allegations that have no basis in fact. Of course, that this makes him exactly what he accuses other people of only provides amusement. Jurgen |
| M C MonkeyDew | 05 Nov 2013 11:12 a.m. PST |
Not speaking of G. again suits me fine. However if some folks want to bring up reasons why they want him back surely others are free to disagree and will then bring up reasons why they do not want him back. Don't ask, don't tell. …and what of this actual topic? Anyone found more sources that shed light on the conduct of the Haitian campaign? I did find an un-sourced claim on some dodgy marxist website that the idea of gas chamber ships was first tried out in metropolitan France during the Terror. Seemed like  but have repeated it here for completeness. Bob |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 11:34 a.m. PST |
Bob, I have not found any further sources and am increasingly inclined to regard the allegation of gas chamber ships as unproven. It seems to be a very complex way of killing people when it was probably quicker and simpler to do it in more usual ways. Jurgen |
| M C MonkeyDew | 05 Nov 2013 11:45 a.m. PST |
It does seem like it would take more effort than other methods and endanger the executioners as well. Also seems to involve too much effort. Why seal up a ship and transport sulfur from volcanoes when an inexhaustible supply of water (which also causes breathing problems) was nearby. It's all a bit too Bond villain. Still was surprised to see any period reference to the process at all. Thought sure that one was a modern construct for marketing purposes. |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 12:23 p.m. PST |
Bob, Contemporary authors, even those who are present at events, are not always accurate so perhaps there was a misinterpretation of what was actually happening. However, I am also aware that the same arguments that we have made against these ships are also made by some against the existence of gas chambers in Nazi occupied Poland. Jurgen |
| Chouan | 05 Nov 2013 1:41 p.m. PST |
I suppose that the Noyades at Nantes were Revolutionary attempts at industrialising death, but also seemed to be unnecessarily complicated. |
| Flecktarn | 05 Nov 2013 1:55 p.m. PST |
Chouan, I suspect that throwing people into a river is somewhat simpler than creating floating gas chambers. The drownings do seem to have been some sort of attempt at industrialising death, albeit not a very effective one. Jurgen |
| M C MonkeyDew | 05 Nov 2013 3:14 p.m. PST |
Jurgen, Quite correct to remind me. I had forgotten that logic is not always a good tool when investigating extremes of human behavior. Someone should write a book claiming that H. found Descourtilz' work in a library while researching a biology paper in primary school. Through this first exposure H. developed the belief that N. was telling him to do evil things through coded messages rather like Manson and the Beatles or Son of Sam and his dog. I can see that revelatory scene playing out in the film version with dramatic musical cues and all as the small child is first gripped by madness. That's my rather dark humor at work I am afraid. Still I bet someone would buy it and worse yet believe it. : ) |
| Sparker | 05 Nov 2013 6:44 p.m. PST |
Re squareheads – when I were a lad growing up in a succession of BAOR garrison towns in NW Germany 'squarehead' or more commonly 'boxheads' was the affectionate term for locals. The on-base Ukrainian displaced persons, who to my youthful and simplistic mind, had far squarer heads, were however referred to as 'Mojos'. When I asked my father about this apparent anomaly I was the one administered a slap to the forehead… Interestingly, when I had the great fortune to by a house in West Dorset, God's Own Country, the locals there, and by some honorific also thence myself, were referred to by naval colleagues as 'pointy heads'. I suspect it was not meant as a compliment…. And just to show that theres no pleasing some people, 'round head' a term used to describe Parliamentarians during the English Civil War, was also meant to be derogatory, although in this case a reference to their tonsorial arrangements, which were, to put it politely, a triumph of the practical over the decorational. Re witticisms uttered when coming onto the bridge, one of my more eccentric COs used to utter this ditty on most occasions that his head emerged from the entry hatch early in the Morning watch: 'Morning Men
Starboard 10
Round the buoy
And back again' Fortunately the Bosun's Mate was appraised of this habit and therefore abstained from automatically executing the implied wheel order. Re our former colleague Gazzola, may I simply record the fact that I am entirely consolable about his loss, and it seems to me he was the possesor of all the unpleasant attributes that TW ascribes to Flecktarn. Flecktarn remains, to my mind, one of the most useful and courteous characters on TMP these days… |
| TelesticWarrior | 06 Nov 2013 3:23 a.m. PST |
For all the people out there who seem to magically develop cataracts every time they go on the Napoleonic boards…..read the thread again very carefully before making so many blind biased mistakes. Start with the 1st page; everyone was getting on very well indeed (and miraculously agreeing with each other for once) right up until the point Mal Sabreuer started getting angry and making sweeping statements that nobody seemed to agree with at the time. Then the personal attacks on Kevin started without any provocation whatsoever by Spreewaldgurken (21 Oct 2013 6:37 p.m.), swiftly followed by Flecktarn (21 Oct 2013 11:06 p.m). Brechtel then naturally reacted, as anybody would in the circumstances when they are personally attacked without provocation.
Brechtel & Chouan then continued their usual war of words, with Flecktarn popping in to stir the pot, as his is custom. Gazzola did not get involved until page 3, then for some bizarre reason known only to Flecktarn, Flectarn decided to personally attack Gazzola (24 Oct 2013 7:05 a.m) without any provocation, as Gazz had not even spoken to Flecktarn at all at that point. The thread was doomed to disaster after Flecktarns "blow-up doll" unprovoked personal attack, which followed his same M.O on other recent threads, which is why I keep saying Flecktarn is deliberately trying to provoke a reaction amongst certain people. I am not re-starting a war here, I am just stating blatant facts that any fool can just go back and read if they take the trouble. |
| Flecktarn | 06 Nov 2013 4:10 a.m. PST |
It does seem that some people just see things through a very distorted set of lenses. Wars tend to require a minimum of two sides. Jurgen |
| TelesticWarrior | 06 Nov 2013 4:15 a.m. PST |
Yes, wars require two sides. But who starts the war, and for what motive, is of paramount importance. |
| Edwulf | 06 Nov 2013 4:20 a.m. PST |
Geh.
Perhaps your right Colonel. Perhaps your right. |
| Brechtel198 | 06 Nov 2013 4:40 a.m. PST |
TW, The old axiom of leading horses to water but cannot force them to drink is a truism. Well done on your thread research. It's accurate, succinct, and will undoubtedly draw the ire of the 'usual suspects' who are guilty of what they accuse others of. Some people cannot stand to be disagreed with and they project their anger by accusing others of their own shortcomings. It's too bad really, but that is how it is here. B |
| Flecktarn | 06 Nov 2013 4:45 a.m. PST |
I really dislike stifling people but have now done so:(. Jurgen |
| WeeWars | 06 Nov 2013 5:02 a.m. PST |
I really dislike stifling people which is why I don't stifle people. My opinion doesn't get any better by ignoring other people. |
| M C MonkeyDew | 06 Nov 2013 5:27 a.m. PST |
I've only stifled maybe two folks at a time and always for a limited duration. For example if they are interrupting a discussion just to spew vitriol at those who are discussing the topic. After a few hours or days I get tired of the grey space and un-stifle them. Can't see the need for a long term stifle The editor tends to get rid of the folks who warrant such eventually. Bob |
| ColonelToffeeApple | 06 Nov 2013 5:49 a.m. PST |
As regards my view on stiflers, I return to a take on Catullus that I gave previously: My indifference to their welfare is matched only by my ignorance of who they are. TMP is hardly a rude forum, and the arguments are all handbags at ten paces from the safety of a keyboard across cyberspace, so hardly dramatic stuff. As regards Gazzola, I have no particular axe to grind but regard it as a matter of regret that his account has been locked. As I have said before, I think people have different sensibilities, I for one wasn't particularly injured at being called a caveman by innuendo. Gazzola was frequently goaded. Indeed some people who claimed to have stifled him clearly hadn't and on reading the boards even a casual eye could see where the pot was being stirred. That said I think he was often his own worse enemy in rising to the bait. I will miss him a bit, but I have no doubt that the semblance of good manners and civility will continue as before. |
| TelesticWarrior | 06 Nov 2013 5:50 a.m. PST |
Thanks Brechtel.
But I don't think there will be any more vitriol from these people for a little while. They know when they have been exposed. None of them can address my last substantive post, and they damn well know it. Case closed I would say.
Colonel,
Right on the money.
|
| M C MonkeyDew | 06 Nov 2013 6:54 a.m. PST |
As Gazzilas first post on the topic effectively called anyone interested in the topic he was posting to ""silly Nap haters ", he certainly cast the first stone here. And as always he came across as sanctimonious and condescending. I always let it ride presuming he was either posturing, or genuinely ill. Can't say I will miss his comments, nor see him as martyred. I didn't see mention of his rudeness in your last substantive post so maybe you missed it. It is however, one of those "blatant facts that any fool can just go back and read if they take the trouble." Bob |
| TelesticWarrior | 06 Nov 2013 7:37 a.m. PST |
he certainly cast the first stone here What tosh. I gave the dates and times, they clearly predate Gazz's. And I didn't miss it. This is what he said; Wow! I did not realise that this silly thread would continue, considering the pathetic source. The Daily Mail really got the silly Nap haters going, didn't they! Perhaps they believe in the idea of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story? Seeing as we were all agreed, except the most rabid nap haters, that it was indeed a silly article, I would say his post was spot on. And Flecktarn knew that at the time too, so the fact that he chose to make a very personal attack on Gazzola when we all in agreement (in TMP terms at least, as close to a consensus as we are ever likely to get), even though Gazz had not said anything to Fleck, proves my point. Flecktarn did the exact same thing to Brechtel on page one too. Go look. Very clear who was casting the first stones. No-one is martyring anyone, but a bit of honesty and common sense wouldn't go amiss at the moment. |
paints a Napoleonic caricature.
