"Please Read: Member Advisory" Topic

I hesitate to bring this up to the membership, but I think you should be aware of the situation.

Lord Raglan informs me that he is collecting information, including screenshots, which he intends to hand over to the authorities in the US and the Philippines. He tells me this includes "the comments made by some TMP members" because he believes some members of TMP pose a danger to our staff editors. He says this matter will have "implications for both you and other members of this forum."

Therefore, be advised that Lord Raglan is collecting this information.

In addition, in a related discussion, TMP member Marcus Maximus has threatened another forum member by falsely claiming that "your IP address has been logged" (which is not possible on TMP).

I believe that our staff editors, being mature adults, are in no danger from the members of TMP.

I am Locking the accounts of Lord Raglan and Marcus Maximus due to their threatening actions towards members of the TMP community.

In case anyone thinks I am misrepresenting what Lord Raglan has said, I will reproduce his messages to me in their entirety:

Bill,

I want to believe that you are a decent human being, however the evidence in front suggests differently. Just so you understand where I am coming from, I will explain in more detail. I have 23 years experience of working as forensic practitioner and I specialise in the assessment/management of sex offenders/paedophiles.

What I have witnessed over the last few months disturbs me. It is the stereotypical grooming behaviour of a middle aged man in a position power. For this reason, I had to make a stance and make others question the appropriateness of putting images of young looking females on this type of website.

At the very least, you have exposed these females to a group of anonymous males, who can now subsequently contact them directly.

I have taken screen shots of every image that you have posted, including the comments made by some TMP members. Unless you immediately remove these from the forum and make public apologise for your error of judgement, I will pass all this information over to my counterparts in States.

Don't let your pride turn you into a fool, you can come out of this with some dignity.

Bill,

Against my better judgement, I have been encouraged by supporting individual members and supporting companies to contact you again before reporting the matter to US and Filipino authorities. I request one again, that you remove all images of these women and make an apologise for your error of judgment?

This matter will have implications for both you and other members of this forum.

The only reason I have been convinced to contact you one more time, is in the interest of companies who do not want to be soiled with association.

I await your response?

While the ladies are quite a bit younger than most of us, they are adults and appear to be able to handle themselves. Based on some members' posts, I do have to wonder if some of our fellow TMPers have ever seen a vagina but I don't think the girls are in any danger. I think mostly it is the novelty of pretty young girls having anything to do in any capacity with wargaming and wargamers. I think if someone got out of line they would put them in their place.

Every woman on every site on the web experiences men who are idiots sometimes. This troll has obviously never been past this forum. If anything he has exhibited a male chauvinistic behavior by threatening the work of these women.

That said there are a lot of misguided do gooders on the web. Many of them are obsessed with pedophilia to the point where they threaten if they see a woman who looks young. Thats just the tip of the freakberg too.

Bill dont let a troll like this prohibit you from doing legal business. You have done nothing wrong.

Oh what a world we live in. You put a picture of a pretty girl on your site and you are accused of being some sex crazed pervert.

Get a life Raglan. This is a war gaming site, if members want sexy titillation they certainly wouldn't be looking here.

I quite like Raglan but his stance seems to rather insult the intelligence and motives of the collective membership.

What a bunch of maroons………

I think we might be in for a dust up tonight…(cracks knuckles). I'll be lookin to up my stifle count at the expense of some trolls…

In response to raglan , I will actually become a paying member of the site tomorrow. I'd do it now but I'm to lazy to walk downstairs for my card.

Bill,

HAVE you been approached by supporting members and advertisers privately in regards to the ongoing situation here on TMP?

If not, but several of them, especially paying advertisers, did contact you in the near future with their concerns…what would you do?

In all truth, this entire situation could have been handled better by all sides and I have read SEVERAL public postings here on TMP, asking you, in a supportive manner, to stop making the situation bigger than it already is.

You have a great site here, but once you have ADVERTISERS start drifting off…then who knows where that will lead to.

You want to hire young ladies from the Philipines…fine…but in hindsight, could it not have been done a bit better and with a bit more professionalism. Did fellow members even know you were advertising/looking for Editors?

All I see is that you have become increasingly defensive and lashing out supporting members, who pay to support TMP.

No one is saying you are a bad person or anything like that, but I'll repeat myself one more time:

Please, for all of our sakes. Ease off a bit, take a few days, blow off some steam and then, at the very least, look at things from another angle.

Open an HONEST dialogue with LR and MM, because shutting them out just confirms their beliefs, which may in turn galvanize them into action.

I did see the Julia picture, since it was sent to me and quite frankly, I was appalled by it…especially since the person is supposed to be a professional member of your staff.

If you can't or don't want to see what others are seeing, and hopefully telling you and continue to grow more defensive…then we will ALL suffer for it.

Please…for all our sakes. Take a breath, slow down and THINK about what has happened.

My membership expires in December, but I plan to immediately extend it for another 6 months. Also planning on doing a bit of stifling.

And by "appalled" by Julia's picture, I am referring to just seeing such an image here, no matter how tame.

Of course you can see anything on the web.

BUT what if the picture was the equivalent of a female VP of a F500 company taking her blouse off for the guys on the loading dock or a male VP of a company walking around the office pool in his briefs.

Even though TMP may not be a Fortune 500 company, the end result was the same.

Lets sum up what the US authorities will get… Screen shots of full clothed Asian women. A confirmation of them being employed by a US male. A detailed list of their duties as employees and a few snide comments by anonymous males on the internet. Maybe I missed something that was harsher then I realize but I only saw morons running their mouth and even that was mild by internet standards.

You can get worse stuff from youtube comments.

I would understand if Bill had posted their home phone numbers and addresses, nude pictures, or paraded them around as the "eye candy" of TMP. We will never see another picture of these girls unless they post it themselves. The same picture of Bill has been floating around for years.

Maybe I'm naive but last time I checked you could exploit a young girl from a pm on a site where she has the power to lock your account after the first contact.

I for one welcome out new Female Editor Overlords and welcome their editorial input. More importantly my news posts will get posted faster :)

Wow such a nice big post of professionally stated bovine excrement! Wow we best be scared since we all did nothing wrong. Bill the bulk of TMP is behind you dont let the turkeys get you down as the old 70s teeshirt said.

BTW not all us old men are paranoid prudes! Hey guys lift your head up from your gaming book and go for a walk, there is something in this world called young woman and they aren't against the law.

Maybe I'm naive but last time I checked you could exploit a young girl from a pm on a site where she has the power to lock your account after the first contact.

Glad I have been monitoring this, that is just bat #@&% crazy right there….Interestingly enough my wife and I hosted an event at our salon to bring community awareness of people who traffic young girls. I am certainly no expert on the problem but I didn't think any of this was "grooming" either.

In all truth, this entire situation could have been handled better by all sides and I have read SEVERAL public postings here on TMP, asking you, in a supportive manner, to stop making the situation bigger than it already is.

Yeah I have to agree it could have been. But, since we are humans it did not.

No one is saying you are a bad person or anything like that, but I'll repeat myself one more time

Raglan accused him of "grooming" these women for nefarious reasons.

You want to hire young ladies from the Philipines…fine…but in hindsight, could it not have been done a bit better and with a bit more professionalism. Did fellow members even know you were advertising/looking for Editors?

Not sure it is any of our business why Bill decides to hire people. Not surprised that he would hire Phillipinos since he is married to one they are a rather tight community.

I did see the Julia picture, since it was sent to me and quite frankly, I was appalled by it…especially since the person is supposed to be a professional member of your staff.

I have to agree that posting that was a poor decision and leaving it there as long as it was was a poor decision as well. If individual adult members and employees want to share things like that, there are private ways of doing so. Hopefully everyone simmers down and stops this foolishness.

If anyone can help at a moment like this, it's definitely Goose.

Personally, I'm shocked. Even after 25 years in the military I thought I had encountered all types of people. Then, a fellow like Raglan pops up and convinces me that I haven't.

I can not honestly understand how he can assses what has happened here and then, literally construct, with no evidence, his claim.

I feel sorry for and pity him.

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

HAVE you been approached by supporting members and advertisers privately in regards to the ongoing situation here on TMP?

I've received a number of supportive PMs from our membership, plus the PMs from Lord Raglan.

I don't recall receiving any critical PMs from Supporting Members (other than Lord Raglan).

No Supporting Members have told me privately that they were quitting the site, or not renewing their memberships.

I have heard from one advertiser who canceled his banners.

All I see is that you have become increasingly defensive and lashing out supporting members, who pay to support TMP.

It seems common sense to expel members who are making threats to other members of this site.

Open an HONEST dialogue with LR and MM, because shutting them out just confirms their beliefs, which may in turn galvanize them into action.

As I have said before, I contacted LR privately to discuss this matter, and he told me he would conduct his discussion in public.

Besides, what more information can I give LR than I have already given him?

In case anyone thinks I am misrepresenting what Lord Raglan has said, I will reproduce his messages to me in their entirety:

Bill,

These messages were either PMs or direct Emails? Mano a' mano or publically broadcast here on TMP?

If private, did you contact LR or MM first or vice versa?

Wow. What douchebags.

These messages were either PMs or direct Emails? Mano a' mano or publically broadcast here on TMP?

If private, did you contact LR or MM first or vice versa?

1. I contacted LR first by PM.
2. He declined my offer to communicate in private, with me or my editors.
3. I received the ultimatums from LR by PM.
4. I don't recall any PMs with MM.

Wow! talk about hypocrisy, complaining about the Editor posting a new thread informing the membership of threats against the membership made by another member. While you yourself have started two new threads today in a obvious attempt to keep string the pot.

I think you need to step away for a while, take a deep breath and chill. It's been obvious for some time that you have a personal grudge against Bill for some reason so maybe you should take a long break from TMP until you can resolve that issue.

1. I contacted LR first by PM.
2. He declined my offer to communicate in private, with me or my editors.
3. I received the ultimatums from LR by PM.
4. I don't recall any PMs with MM.

Fair enough, Bill. If you try to initiate a dialogue with LR first, then you certainly hold the high ground.

Thanks for doing that.

jdginaz…If you're referring to me, as I pointed out earlier, I was (and still am) attempting to settle things with humor, rather than with a cudgel; but I'm not blind or deaf either…I too shall ease off.

The Editor has seen my posts and has been fine with them, so all is well.

I would like to see how Raglan reacts when his "counterparts in States" tell him that he has no case whatsoever. I wonder if go he'll ballistic and accuse them of being part of the TMP conspiracy against these poor women?

It does occur to me that there might be some unintended blow back from this event. I know NOTHING about employing international people who don't live in the states. (there is a lot of paperwork and fees to keep them in the states if that is the case)

Not sure if you have checked into this or done research on the topic but I would poke around and make sure the employment paperwork is all in order. It would be a shame for this reported activity to blow back in your face when the authorities do some checking. A simple error could raise some flags and may cost you fines or our Assistant Editors their jobs.

Geez.
I predicted on a different thread earlier tonight that some TMPers might get "grumpy", but this takes the cake.

Dang. Things may have gotten off to an odd start, but I have yet to see anything that smacks of grooming or outright exploitation. Yeah, Julia's selfie pic did strike me as rather ill-advised, but that's about it. As I've said elsewhere, the only thing that stuck in my craw was all the fawning from some of the membership, and even that was because it didn't let up after a while.

I can understand LR's concern, but not his outrage (although, to be fair, there are some things about which, because of my experiences at work or life, I have NO sense of humor,) and this latest move seems waaay overboard.

Wow. Either this is all a hoax or the guy has really lost it. Like others have said, not sure how he can even threaten anything when he has no evidence of any wrongdoing! You have hired some women who have posted a picture. Fully clothed pictures. Because some Asian women are exploited does that mean the rest of them are not allowed to work properly.

Although it's not the correct phrase, this guy is barking.

It seems their are people around trying to make trouble in order to make a name for themselves. I do agree about making sure all the legalities are in order, dont let jerks win over a technicalities.

There are a lot of bigoted, nasty people around who take exception to almost anything. There could be some overtones of anti outsourcing here as well.

Bill, I see no reason why you have to answer this mans interrogation, its none of his damn business!

The picture Julia posted was in good taste and I saw nothing wrong with it. Aren't we grown men who can appreciate a pretty woman without losing our self-control.

Where is the "Lord" Rag . . . lan from? Maybe he wants all women in a burka!

Well he did say he works with sex offenders and pedophiles on a daily basis so he might just be a bit more sensitive to situations like this then the rest of us.

As an advertiser I stand behind you 100%!!!!

As for those two what a bunch of Twonks. We can live without there close mindedness.

Smug witchunters methinks, looking in all the wrong places.

Can we please not make this hobby any weirder? I'm not sure I'm with Lord Raglan on the need to report these matters to the authorities but I must say that I would prefer if this place stuck to the business of discussing miniatures. I don't want to see Tango, Bill, OFM or any other member, administator or contributing person disrobed, sexualised, in photoshopped vanity photos.

Save it for facebook or something.

These public postings and the earlier one, which was clearly meant to bait Raglan, are not examples of the editor "taking the high ground." I've said earlier, as have others, that the way this has been handled is unprofessional.

This is all so sad and has to hurt Bill and the young ladies needlessly. Rogzombie hit the nail on the head; "Smug witch-hunters…..looking in all the wrong places." My daughter came home from Kindergarten one day and told me she could not sit in my lap anymore because some woman had told all the kids it was bad. I called the school to inquire just who this person was and in the end it turned out she was a self-appointed moral vigilante with not one iota of professional standing. Such people do no end of harm.

Will this certainly tips me to finally becoming a supporter.

I can't believe your efforts to employ a few women, to help them, and their families, financially gets so mischaracterized, and blown out of proportion.

The following saying fits to a "T" though, e.g. "no good deed goes unpunished".

Sad, but I have found it to be true, in many circumstances.

It is still pretty much a full-moon period, so hopefully this issue will die down in a few days.

I didn't see the pic, but given the description, it sounds fairly innocent. I hope this whole episode hasn't traumatized Julia, and/or the other editors too much, or you either, Bill.

Good riddance.

In my experience, the "moral crusaders" are usually the ones with the bloodiest skeletons in their own closet.

As I said earlier maybe on another post, do-gooders do a lot of bad.

I have no issue with the new editors. I think that maybe their natural exuberance at having a new job may have been too much for some people to handle.

In my experience, the "moral crusaders" are usually the ones with the bloodiest skeletons in their own closet.

I've noticed the same thing. A healthy amount of caution/concern is one thing… but zealous crusades and histrionic displays of 'outrage' are red flags IME.

This is brilliant.

That Raglan guy is clearly nuts.

On another side, it should be pointed out that the editor could have avoided all this obvious reaction by simply hiring one part time, existing gamer who could easily have handled the duties, rather than having to train people ignorant of the hobby and who have an evident language barrier as well.

His rationale seems to have been to help out people from a poorer country and, oddly, justifying it alsi by saying they are cheaper to hire, cheaper by the dozen it appears.

I'm sure the hundreds of out of work US/UK based gamers with relevant knowledge and experience will be delighted with his rationale.

So Bill, you have brought this on yourself. It was a crazy move and it was only ever going to end up like this.

Well, I would say that the current hiring policy makes sense – I object to getting service calls from people I don't understand, that kind of outsourcing I object to, but that's not the case here. Here it is a simple case of 'I'm hiring people who cost less to hire, who are getting a good local rate of pay, who can do the job, and from a country that Bill is totally familiar with, so there won't be any cultural misunderstandings from his point of view.

Looks like a win win to me.

He should know then that there needs to be a complaint from a victim.

This type of bullying is despicable.

was the equivalent of a female VP of a F500 company

The 20 somethings I see employed in "social media" are different than the VP types…way more ink and piercings.

I get the that the new editors are from the Philippines. From a 24/7 web perspective I thought you might like them more globally distributed but maybe the area is the new Silicon Valley or something.

I wonder if companies that staff their overseas call centers with Indians get the same scrutiny.

I can only concur with Mako11 and the many others that have answered this thread.
I have never stifled anyone (as I consider all of us reasoning adults), but Lord Raglan came very close with his bigotry & verbal bullying.
Best of luck to all our editors, and hopefully we can all put this behind us and move on to better days.