"SKELP - Forfar - 19th October" Topic

Anyone going to SKELP this weekend?

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The Falkirk Club are taking a Dinosaur Huntingg PP game – I won't be going myself as I did Culloden Saturday gone

We'll be there as usual, along with the Minibits stuff as well.

Leuchars will be there, with "Divine Wind".
Anybody going to be selling Warlord Bolt Action books?

Only 9 traders?

Small show, but perfectly formed!

Skelp used to be much bigger, what happened?

Like all shows north of the border and more northern than most we struggle to attract traders as the economics of travelling so far proves difficult to justify in straitened times. We were at a wargaming event at Culloden visitors centre last weekend and only two clubs made it and no traders, do the math!

The math suggests too many shows at the same time of the year north of the border, or at least North of Dundee.

Two shows in Angus only a couple of weeks apart? One in Inverness only a couple of weeks before that?

Not sensible, I fear.

Edinburgh, Dumfries, Falkirk all pretty well served by traders and clubs.

pointy

Its the same size as its always been but it now has a new team running it,making their own decisions so it will look different.

whenever running a show of skelps size space is always finite you can have lots small traders or less traders but bigger I suppose the variety of product available is the test.

The number of clubs attending is also down to space, you send out lots invites some clubs respond quickly with table sizes others seem to expect you to chase them down some replying on the evening of the show and being surprised that you have no space left.

As for the number of shows Culloden is a new event run by the NT and as far as I know not really the traditional show organiser so doubt they bothered to see if other shows were about the same date.

And skelp & targe being a few weeks apart is a historical leftover.

but both clubs are attending each others shows this year for the first time.

Duallers points are also valid.

Well, it may be little, but it was a well-attended show today, as far I could tell from our table.
We were kept busy with 5 games during the day, and many others watched in the passing.
I thought the traders there were well-stocked, and most of our gang managed to empty their wallets quite happily.
Thanks to the Angus club for a good day out.

"A historical leftover", is an interesting comment. So, I suppose, is the situation with Palestine and the former Yugoslavia. This one is a lot easier to solve. Move the shows further apart (temporally, at least), then traders on short commons in straitened times may not feel compelled to choose.

The criticism of clubs is unwarranted. But did it ever occur that it's the same issue as with Traders? As a member of a club who supports as many Scottish shows as it can, getting decent displays together, and then getting folk to give up their Saturdays to help out, is a real logistical issue. When shows are close together, people choose. Being human, this sometimes take time. If the Angus shows were at different times of the year, this would be easier.

I'm afraid I don't buy the space bit. There was room below Jumbos great display for at least two traders, and I suspect FIC didn't need all of that space on the stage. But it's easy to be smart after the event, I guess. There's no avoiding, however, what many attendees consider is the acid test of a "good show" – will Dave Thomas be there?.

And I'm not belittling the traders who did attend, with kudos particularly to Pendraken for making the journey.

It's good that both Angus clubs are now open for diplomatic relations. Perhaps you can get around the negotiating table and sort out the problem facing the shows. Why not have a joint show for both clubs, get bigger premises and get all of the traders, big and small?

Or is that the solution that dare not be named?

Then the hard pressed punters (who also have short commons in straitened times) may feel they don't have to choose.

It's in the hands of the clubs.

Skelp is a long established part of the Scottish Wargames circuit and has been in the same part of the calender from day one. Only the Targe organisers can explain why they chose a date within a month of Skelp! Notwithstanding, as a member of Angus Wargames Club, I feel it's great that the two clubs are working things out and it has taken a younger and possibly more mature committee to show the way. Long may things continue. The acid test of a show being the attendance of Dave Thomas must mean that both shows fail on that count as Dave feels that it's not worth his financial worthwhile attending either/both! Dave runs a business, not a charity and can only go on the bottom line. Van hire, petrol, hotel rooms, food and drink costs,etc means it is not worth his while attending both shows and so this year will attend neither. Disappointing, but absolutely understandable.

I don't agree that the attendance of Dave Thomas is an acid test, fine trader though he is.

The acid test to my mind is the financial viability of the event which will normally depend on enough traders and members of the public attending. The traders will only attend if they do enough trade and the public will only attend if the mix of traders and games is to their liking.

The timing of Skelp and Targe is strange but as long as both fulfil the above criteria there is no real neccessity for them to change.

Coming up from Falkirk I would probably only ever attend one (or neither), which happens to be Targe this year.

Dave T will be at Targe this year. Dave K, I don't think we disagree. If you can't get the traders, you won't get the public, if you don't get the public, you won't get the traders. It's a vicious spiral. Dave T is a huge draw. I do think your last paragraph contradicts your penultimate one, though!

I feel I should comment on here as one of the people who arranged SKELP this year.

SKELP 2013 attracted more people through the door than last year and made more money for the club overall, which I would take as a strong sign of it being a successful event.

As for traders, we asked a range of traders to visit and tried to cover as many gaming ‘bases' as possible, but if they choose not to attend, we are powerless to overcome this. The hall is a finite size and as Figures in Comfort, Pendraken and Minibits, and Highlander Games have all requested extra space over the past few years, it is inevitable that the number of traders has to be reduced slightly to accommodate this. The only space I would have been happy to see filled was on the stage next to Figures in Comfort. Other than that, there was no space in the hall. We feel it is necessary to leave empty tables near the stairs at the entrance as somewhere for people to sit and eat, as expecting people to stand all day is unrealistic.

As for the sign of a good show being the attendance of Dave Thomas, you are welcome to have that opinion. While he is a nice guy and produces very nice models, I quite frankly have never bought anything from him at any show, so that statement does not apply to everyone. And I am quite sure that other events who he doesn't attend do perfectly well without him.

As a member of the club who joined post the club's split, I have no historical issues with Kirriemuir and thought that inviting all of the local clubs would help to get us talking, improve relations between us, and maybe open up ways in which we can work together. Clubs were present from Dundee, Kirriemuir and Perth, and our club intends to host a game at Kirriemuir later this year.

The committee has heard lots of comments about moving SKELP in terms of date and location from one or two traders and clubs. This is all well and good when they are not organising the event or taking the financial risk to do so. For me, SKELP attracts a decent number of people and traders, allows our club's name to be spread and provides additional funds to buy new things for the club. I see no reason to jeopardise any of this to host a slightly bigger show or moving it to a date which may prove unwise. If the other shows you refer to wish to do this, I wish them luck.

The original post related to WHO was going to SKELP, not WHY or WHY NOT.

I go to as many shows as I can mainly to meet other wargamers whom I already know and to make friends with others that I don't know. I don't particularly choose this show over that show based on the traders present, I know many traders personally and it's always nice to speak to them even if I do not intend to buy anything from them.

I can get just about anything hobby related delivered to my door via the internet so I need not attend any show for that matter. In some cases it is nice to feel the 'heft' of a figure or view a casting before deciding to purchase.

As for SKELP and TARGE clashing datewise, it is unfortunate in some respects. I would attend both shows even if they were on the same day, I did so when that did happen a few years ago but I would also be happy to attend a single combined show if that was the way it was.

I usually attend about six shows a year, CLAYMORE, CARRONADE, SKELP, TARGE, BORDER REIVER, YORK and CRISIS. Occasionally I have to miss a show, CARRONADE clashes with prime vacation time in the US so I do often miss it and historically CRISIS and TARGE have clashed although not this year.

I could go further south and catch shows like PARTIZAN, SALUTE, DERBY WORLDS but probably wouldn't want to. These sort of shows are too big and too far away for a decent drive there and back same day sort of thing and big isn't necessarily better. CRISIS on the other hand is a big show but it is the only show I can reasonably attend and meet the Dutch and Belgian wargamers that I know as they find it difficult to fit in a Scottish or Northern England show.

So, at the end of the day shows are my way of meeting some of my many friends in the hobby. Seeing others games and trading 'gold' for 'lead' is a side issue. It would be nice if SKELP and TARGE were to merge but it would be one less opportunity for me to meet my friends and if a show the size of SALUTE were to appear within a half a days driving for me I would probably go to it.

Fursty Ferret, you are to be congratulated for taking the grownup attitude regarding local wargaming history, albeit because you didn't actually witness it.
That approach can only be of benefit to all of us in Scottish wargaming.
However, the faintly blinkered defence in your last paragraph somewhat spoils the impression of progress for Angus wargaming in general.
Please keep an open mind on the subject of size, as I imagine that not ALL the above people can be getting the wrong end of the stick, can they?
By the way, I agree with the view that another couple of games or traders could have fitted in at the entrance end.
There were loads of chairs elsewhere in case any lardy or elderly patrons needed a wee rest.
(I fit both categories, before you ask)

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General Jumbo, thank you for the comment regarding the new committees approach to inter-club relations.

Regarding my views on the state of SKELP and a possible change to its format. I don't speak for the other committee members when I say that, that is my personal opinion. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. SKELP currently meets the needs of our club and benefits us in several ways, but to move it could risk losing what we have and for no reason. We are a small club with limited members who can help out and very few people in the club would want to manage a show much larger than what we do already…getting them to volunteer to be on the committee is hard enough! :) You could say we should collaborate with another club to do this. That is an option, but then that opens up other issues regarding who leads the management of it, the funding and labour division.

Logistically, we are very far north and cannot hope to attract the same number of visitors and traders as the shows in the central belt can. As nice as it would be to host a large show, I feel our club has to be realistic with what it hopes to achieve from it. As mentioned, a lot of our members just like to wargame, a show is an aside to that.

Ok first post on TMP and I'm sorry to make it a negative one, first let me just say that I was a member of Kirrie before the great big split up that formed Angus. Later I was again a member of Kirrie, until the great dictator's (whom I'd rather not name) treatment of the club membership led to an online hissy fit (on the now conveniently deleted Kirrie Forum) which saw around 50% of Kirrie members throwing the memberships back at said dictator's face. Some went on to join the Angus club others just stay at home and game with their mates. Me, I went to Angus for a year or two, but to be honest nowadays I just stay at home and have an occasional game with a couple of pals.

Long story short, there isnt a problem with the 2 clubs, there is a problem with one club member.

These Scots are getting as bad as the Americans.

Gordon, I don't think such posts are helpful to inter-club relations. I understand that certain individuals have personal issues with others, but a line has to be drawn in the sand. As far as I am aware the committees of both clubs have done this, and that is good enough for me.

This is old history.

The angus club have a new committee who are doing a good job have new ideas and were elected to make decisions and lead the club while keeping the members informed and that's what they do and that's what democracy is about after all, and it's always been a democratic club.

As to furstys reply to gordon like everything in life those individuals who still have what he calls "personal issues" or what I would probably call "matters of principle" will continue to exercise their free will to attend shows, wargame at club level and associate with individuals or not as is the case just like in real life..

Anyway this is old old history and better left buried in the past.as it's only a hobby not life or death.

and wandered way of the title of this thread

Well, this all leaves plenty of scope for friendly rivalry on the tables at Kirrie next weekend, then, playmates!

jumbo
not me
but enjoy yourself