| BigNickR | 17 Oct 2013 6:19 a.m. PST |
I'm a little late to this post, and not the "hardcore user" that some of the other posters are, but I wanted to chime in when i read the title, and even MORE SO after reading the comments here. Addressing the point of what I would like to see funded with a paid membership: 1)An updated format. The page is rugged and minimalistic. It looks like the relic from the 90's that it is, and the layout (while efficient) is so no-frills that it causes most people I show the page to doubt it's quality because they expect a modern relevant page to LOOK modern and relevant. 2)The search function is like the punchline to a bad joke. It takes WAY too long to return results, and lacks a lot of filtering options. An improved search capability with the ability to search by things like author, subject, and whether the topic has pictures would be great. Also the ability to EXCLUDE search terms, authors, or the like. 3) A "see posts by" link on profile would be useful/ As for Stifles, I find them useful. Someone who has more than a few of them either got them for strong opinions (which can be good OR bad), or for trolling. Lets me see at a glance and make some educated guesses on a poster I'm unsure of. Lastly on the subject of the new editors. I don't care. They are staff. They seem like nice people but truth be told there hasn't been anything DONE that I can see to judge them by. I will reserve judgement on their performance based on what I see of the site going forward. This is the only way to judge them. Anything else is pandering, mysogony, or some other attitude that has no place in this hobby. I am appalled that their race, sex, or age is even a topic here. Would you say the same thing if THE EDITOR was hiring Black Men? Hispanic Albinos? Norwegians? The French? Didn't think so. Attitudes like that are why our hobby is often perceived by outsiders as a bunch of smelly old reprobates in cigar-smoke-filled rooms telling sexist and racist jokes and worrying about "the youths" and "the ethnics". New editors, I will extend to you the same social contract that I extend to any other webmasters. Keep the site functional and well ordered and I will keep visiting. Don't and I won't. That is all. |
| Altius | 17 Oct 2013 8:15 a.m. PST |
I think some of the negative comments about the hiring of the editors are completely out of line. The photos of the new editors are not prurient in the least. I haven't seen anything unprofessional in the way the hiring has been done, and to suggest there is something "creepy" about it is a huge leap. Are you suggesting that Bill not hire certain ethnicities, ages or genders as a rule? I think you should rethink your position if you have a problem with such things. I think employees should be evaluated on their performance, rather than who they happen to be or what they look like. They are new. Give them a chance to settle into the job a bit before throwing stones. I'm sure it's a big adjustment for them. |
| Silent Pool | 17 Oct 2013 8:29 a.m. PST |
Spoken You haven't. Not really. That wasn't the question (even I say keep the stifle option). The question was concerning having a Stifle Table and whether…oh, forget it. If you haven't been paying attention  |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 9:00 a.m. PST |
Bill As mentioned by one of our fellow TMPers, I do work in an agency that acts to protect potentially vulnerable individuals from all manner of exploitation. Regardless of your motives for employing these young women, it is a known fact that young Asian females are prime targets for exploitation, which is usually perpetrated by middle aged men. Given this widely known fact, I was surprised to observe the editor of a wargaming forum whose members are mainly "anonymous" middle aged men, had decided to parade his young Asian female employees like a trophy. Bill, if you can't see what you have done is distasteful, then you seriously lack insight. This discussion would have never taken place if you had simply employed these women and shut-up about it. But no, you decided to make a spectacle of them. Why would you do that, are you trying to impress these girls or maybe your friends? In my opinion, you have shown a side of your character which raises a concern. Raglan |
| BigNickR | 17 Oct 2013 9:18 a.m. PST |
Lord Raglan: "Welcome to the Team" posts are common in the industry, and a GOOD way to introduce "who is this person that suddenly shows up with "editor" in their name". As Freud himself said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. "white knighting" is just as dangerous as what you are trying to prevent. As is this ongoing discussion. You notice who it ISN'T an issue for? (or hasn't been YET?) |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 9:45 a.m. PST |
BigNickR Freud also set out to uncover an individual's sexual repression. He argued that unacceptable behaviour could be blamed on subconscious rather than conscious thought, leading to the further conclusion that individuals cannot be held fully responsible for their actions and character flaws. As a result, some people now believe that they are merely victims of the subconscious mind, which is shaped by past events and relationships over which they have no control – maybe that is what is going on here? Raglan |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 9:54 a.m. PST |
or maybe its just creepy adolescent behaviour? Raglan |
| alexjones | 17 Oct 2013 10:01 a.m. PST |
Raglan, Get off your high horse, it is really boring. You are a middle aged man, is that the problem? |
| Editor Claire | 17 Oct 2013 10:07 a.m. PST |
For your information, Bill is a good person. I don't think and believe he's exploiting us, and in fact he tries to help us. He is such a blessing to us that God has sent from above, so stop thinking all the negative thoughts about him. Thank you! |
| Altius | 17 Oct 2013 10:10 a.m. PST |
Completely off the mark, in my opinion. |
| alexjones | 17 Oct 2013 10:10 a.m. PST |
In the twisted mind of many middle aged do gooders, giving someone a job is exploitation! They know best of course, I doubt whether they have stepped foot in Asia. |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 10:11 a.m. PST |
FirstBrigade As I said several posts ago, everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you don't wanted to be judged, don't go public. Raglan |
| jdginaz | 17 Oct 2013 10:11 a.m. PST |
I've seen this many times before, some people who work in areas that they are passionate about have the tendency to view everything through those experiences even when there is no cause for it. @Lord Raglan, could you point out the picture of the "scantily clad" editor? It look to me like you have a personal dislike to Bill and are ascribing motives and actions to him for which you have no evidence in order to discredit him. That disgusts me and tells me more about you that him. If Bill and this site disturbs you so much why are you here? |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 10:18 a.m. PST |
jdginaz I am here for wargaming related reasons and not to view images of young Asian women. Actually, this is one of the only non-wargaming posts I have ever commented on. I happen to have 23 years experience in my profession and this situation makes me smell a rat. Raglan |
| alexjones | 17 Oct 2013 10:28 a.m. PST |
I don't have too much faith in that profession after they turned a blind eye to the abuse which went on for many years in Blackburn and Rochdale. |
| klepley | 17 Oct 2013 10:31 a.m. PST |
Or you are projecting something that isn't there, which makes you feel superior? |
 Editor in Chief Bill   | 17 Oct 2013 10:31 a.m. PST |
…not to view images of young Asian women. How do you define "young"? What ages? Obviously, I cannot reveal the ages of my workers, as this is private information. Do you require them to give their ages out? |
| Altius | 17 Oct 2013 10:48 a.m. PST |
I don't understand. So the correct solution is to limit hiring to only certain ethnicities, ages or genders? I don't see where any wrong has been committed here. |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 10:53 a.m. PST |
Bill Clearly we have distinctly different views about this matter and to prolong the discussion we only result in us going around in circles. I believe your behaviour is distasteful and you don't – I am not sure what else could be said. Raglan |
| alexjones | 17 Oct 2013 11:01 a.m. PST |
Fortunately this site is run from the US and not the UK otherwise I expect an Orwellian investigation would follow by the people that know best. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Oct 2013 11:02 a.m. PST |
I am not sure what else could be said. For one thing, you could answer the question I just asked you. This is important, since you previously used the term "pubescent" to describe our editors (meaning "age of puberty"). I've since assured you that none of our editors are even teenagers, but you continue to use the word "young" what do you mean? Under 21? Under 25? Under 30? I should also point out that I have encouraged you to speak directly to the editors, and you have requested to keep this discussion public instead. |
| MacSparty | 17 Oct 2013 11:07 a.m. PST |
@Lord Raglan, could you point out the picture of the "scantily clad" editor? That was the term I used, actually, not Raglan. And to clarify, Bill did NOT post any such pictures here. There was, however, at one time a link to a Facebook page that had some personal photos that have nothing to do with TMP. Apologies for any confusion. |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 11:33 a.m. PST |
Bill, I actually said, "some of these photos make them look like pubescent teenagers". It makes no difference what age they are, in my opinion photos of these women do not belong on this forum. Cast your mind back to your introduction of Editor Julia, within a few days some TMPers were making lewd comments. Interestingly, you did not send any of the perpetrators to the dog-house. Raglan |
| 15th Hussar | 17 Oct 2013 12:49 p.m. PST |
"Welcome to the Team" posts are common in the industry, and a GOOD way to introduce "who is this person that suddenly shows up with "editor" in their name". Quite true, but the way and number of fellow members who rushed in to make it a point to introduce themselves to the new editors was rather humorous. You are a middle aged man, is that the problem? Lord Raglan is actually a rather young man, just so we're all on the same page. |
| Lord Raglan | 17 Oct 2013 1:43 p.m. PST |
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| Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Oct 2013 1:59 p.m. PST |
I actually said, "some of these photos make them look like pubescent teenagers".It makes no difference what age they are… They supplied the photos, so they must be happy with them. If age makes no difference, why do you keep using the term "young women"? …photos of these women do not belong on this forum. Is it just "these" women, or do you object to all photos of women? Is there something particular about this website that makes women forbidden here? Cast your mind back to your introduction of Editor Julia, within a few days some TMPers were making lewd comments. Interestingly, you did not send any of the perpetrators to the dog-house. I would remind you that Julia is in charge of the dawghouse these days, not me. |
| jgibbons | 17 Oct 2013 4:30 p.m. PST |
Absent evidence to the contrary (more than the pictures posted would be required)… I choose to assume that the people hired were the ones best qualified. |
| whill4 | 17 Oct 2013 4:49 p.m. PST |
I really don't understand how these women could be exploited by Bill. I believe Bill lives in New York and the women live in the Philippines. They could walk away at any time. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Oct 2013 5:40 p.m. PST |
I really don't understand how these women could be exploited by Bill. I believe Bill lives in New York and the women live in the Philippines. They could walk away at any time. To be fair to Lord Raglan, that sort of thing is possible. It's just not happening in this case. |
| BrotherSevej | 17 Oct 2013 6:26 p.m. PST |
This could be just cultural differences. I personally happen to know several Philippines women--they're my "office buddies from other country" whom I work and communicate with daily--who looks very young--we just met two weeks ago in company team building--especially when compared to caucasians of the same age. I also know people working for $200 USD-$300 or less monthly salary, so I sort of understand what it's all about. |
| Just Jack | 17 Oct 2013 7:39 p.m. PST |
Raglan, Here's one of your pearls that I just couldn't let go: "Bill, if you can't see what you have done is distasteful, then you seriously lack insight. This discussion would have never taken place if you had simply employed these women and shut-up about it. But no, you decided to make a spectacle of them. Why would you do that, are you trying to impress these girls or maybe your friends? In my opinion, you have shown a side of your character which raises a concern." That's some of the dumbest  I've ever read, and I'm on the internet a lot. Parading? Spectacle? Impressing his friends? What planet are you on? You say you come here to talk about wargaming, then shut up about this and talk about wargaming. If other guys are anything like me, they didn't care a whit about any new editors, so long as the site was still running; and they didn't know there were any pictures of the new editors until someone posted them in this very thread, so if you're goal was to play the hero for these ladies, you just drew a whole lot more attention to them. Nice work. If you had just said this crap once I would have figured that you simply had an outsized impression of your own moral superiority, but with the continued , that simply can't be the case. If this whole charade of an "issue" can provide you a look into the darkest recesses of the Editor's soul, you're either a whackjob conspiracy theorist of the worst sort, or your own background could probably stand a good scrubbin' regarding the exploitation of underage foreign nationals. I can't believe I'm allowing myself to be drawn into this, but you're clearly starved for attention, so here you go, you can argue with me if you like and let the editors get back to work. It was dumb enough that we were arguing about stifles and stifle tables, but now this? Give it a break. **EDIT**
Dear Editor, I feel compelled to offer some explanation for this rant. I'm not trying to fight your battles; I'm sure you and your colleagues can handle yourselves. The issue is that far too many times in the past I've seen ongoing, ignorant blather such as this on TMP. Too many times than I can count I've found myself drawn to post a rant such as this, then I go outside, have a smoke, and come back in and delete it. This time I resolved to let it stand as this has really gone too far. If I've gone too far I'd hope you'd e-mail me offline and I'll cease and desist, but otherwise I'm happy to see what majestic brilliance is sprung next on this thread. Maybe my soul has been bared as well, and I can't wait for my diagnosis from the seer of all things evil… Jack |
| RazorMind | 17 Oct 2013 9:34 p.m. PST |
Right on Just Jack, well said and so true. this bit cracked me up: "That's some of the dumbest Bleeped text I've ever read, and I'm on the internet a lot. Parading? Spectacle? Impressing his friends? What planet are you on?"
Exactly how I felt and you transcribed it perfectly :-) |
| mrplant | 18 Oct 2013 12:53 a.m. PST |
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| Militia Pete | 18 Oct 2013 3:04 a.m. PST |
Sheesh, the gamers blog Drunken Dwarves would have a nude Gaming chick of the month. So, this is very minor. You see more skin in the tabloids in England. |
 Murphy  | 18 Oct 2013 6:08 a.m. PST |
Not at all, when the couple marry for love good luck to them. However, when a young Asian women feels absolutely driven to such an arrangement with some fat middle aged balding guy, on the grounds of establishing some financial security for herself and her family yes I do have an issue with this type of exploitation. Don't ever go to Las Vegas then dude…. |
| Mehoy Nehoy | 18 Oct 2013 7:14 a.m. PST |
So what ruleset would you use to game this conflict? |
| Lord Raglan | 18 Oct 2013 7:20 a.m. PST |
Bill, As a paying customer of this group discussion forum, I have a right to voice my opinion about content I find distasteful. I appreciate that other people's views may differ, however that is not going to stop me from putting forward my view of this situation. Your sycophants can stifle away or have a dig at me as much as they want, I don't care. The fact that I have highlighted this issue and got others to reflect upon it, is by far the most important thing to me. Raglan |
Joes Shop  | 18 Oct 2013 8:26 a.m. PST |
What issue? No disrespect intended but what you have 'highlighted' is your opinion of what you think Bill has done. You have no proof; nothing concrete to base anything on. Yes, you have brought up an issue that exists worldwide but to assume that this is what is happening here is simply a leap of conjecture. I won't stifle you because frankly, I'm amazed that your feelings about the subject in general seemingly give you the right to make specific accusations re Bill's hiring practices. Again, based on what? The only reflection this has generated on my part is concern for you. Regards, J. P. Kelly |
| Just Jack | 18 Oct 2013 10:03 a.m. PST |
Raglan, No one said you can't voice your opinion, as evidenced by the fact the Editor has allowed to continue your self-righteous crusade; and again, and again, and again. If you want to bring light to an issue, then bring light to an issue, but don't accuse someone of some ridiculous crap because it fits your agenda. If this is a case of being a victim of your experience, or of the prism through which you view the world, I've got news for you: your prism is broken. There are no sycophants here, only people tired of your baseless accusations. You occur to me as exactly the type to mutter "You all are heathens because you're not doing more to help these savages. Oh, did I say savages?" I won't stifle you; I fondly look forward to a point in time in which we can stop with this nonsense and get back to talking about playing with our toys. Jack |
| Marcus Maximus | 18 Oct 2013 10:54 a.m. PST |
@FirstBrigade Firstly, I know Lord Raglan personally and that is not his profession. You are way off base. And just for the record, being a Social worker is one of the most demanding and least rewarding (and in terms of money against responsibility = least paid) jobs one could ever do and is not for the faint hearted and they should be given a fairer press than they get in the UK (They have done a lot of good but you never hear about those good stories). Secondly the abuse you have cited, of which I have had personal insight into is a failure from a number of points: 1) Public at large turning blind eye through such things as "hey they aren't doing anything to them…" to can't / wont say anything its racist, 2). Police failed fundamentally, 3) the actual parents of both the abusers (some cases the abusers were as young as 14) and the victims 3) social services failed 4) Other services such NHS GP, Hospitals and lastly 5) the actual judicial system and law in the UK both fundamentally flawed and incompetent on all accounts. Next time talk about wargaming and not on something you have little or no knowledge of. |
| alexjones | 18 Oct 2013 12:32 p.m. PST |
Marcus Maximus That is all common knowledge and you so what exactly is your personal insight. If you are going to talk youself up, at least have something of interest to say. Or better still, mind your own business! |
| Lord Raglan | 18 Oct 2013 12:37 p.m. PST |
So you think this latest image is acceptable: TMP link She looks about 10 years of age. Absolutely priceless and confirms my suspicions!! Raglan |
| Sparker | 18 Oct 2013 12:50 p.m. PST |
@ Lord Raglan, M'Lud, I greatly value your contributions to TMP and to Napoleonic wargaming in general, and I suspect, if we could overcome the tyranny of distance, it would be an enjoyable priviledge to face you accross the wargames table. So please take this in the way that it is meant… Yes I do think that image is acceptable and perfectly innocent. And as an introduction to a new member of the TMP team, perfectly in context. Good on you for raising this issue and speaking your mind, but, on the whole, in my humble opinion, there is nothing wierd going on here. As the Officer of the Watch on a warship says when given a voice report about something that seems completely irrelevant but he wants to cover all the bases and seem omniscient: 'Roger – Watch!' In other words, OK, not sure what the problem is, so just keep monitoring and let us know if anything concrete comes to light… Shall we leave it at that? |
| alexjones | 18 Oct 2013 12:58 p.m. PST |
She looks young compared to a white woman of a similiar age but I wouldn't be surprised if she has kids and a family. |
| Mooseworks8 | 18 Oct 2013 1:38 p.m. PST |
Can we just simply remove the "From the Editor" content from our own individual TMP homepages? Then there would be no pictures to be concerned about. |
| Just Jack | 18 Oct 2013 2:56 p.m. PST |
Raglan – "She looks about 10 years of age. Absolutely priceless and confirms my suspicions!!" You have totally divorced yourself from reality. I gather now that you are just pulling our collective chain. Ditto – "Why is it not? I assume that is a picture of her. Should she be wearing a birka? Is the female form so horrifying? Or just Asians?" Amen! For someone who purports to help vulnerable women, it sounds like our good Mr. Raglan has never actually seen one in person. I sincerely hope someone with your outlook, attitude, and maturity is not allowed to participate in any IGO/NGO/charity attempting to help people. Then again, I stick to my point above: this has turned out not to be a serious issue but a childish prank ("hey fellas, look how long I've got these guys to bite on this, and look how riled up they're getting, he-he-he)… Congratulations Raglan (*slow clap*). V/R,
Jack |
| Silent Pool | 18 Oct 2013 4:38 p.m. PST |
Can we just simply remove the "From the Editor" content from our own individual TMP homepages? NO. Don't do that. It's tantamount to stifling the Editor and that leads to a Locked Account, which is as lonely and unpleasant as a wet field outside Worksop. 
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| Editor in Chief Bill | 18 Oct 2013 4:57 p.m. PST |
NO. Don't do that. It's tantamount to stifling the Editor and that leads to a Locked Account… Actually, you can't do that period. We want you to see the "new advertiser" announcements.  |
| Stosstruppen | 18 Oct 2013 5:04 p.m. PST |
This thread is my reminder why I have TMP talk unchecked. What started out as suggestions (probably not a strong enough word) for improvements has turned into some sort of Bill is a perv rant. Wow, really? Personally I am sure these young ladies are happy to have a legitimate economic opportunity such as this. It is nice to see faces, and really if you see this as some sort of sexual thing then you got some issues to investigate of your own. Back to gaming boards for me….. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 18 Oct 2013 5:12 p.m. PST |
She looks about 10 years of age.Absolutely priceless and confirms my suspicions!! I'm sure Alexa will be along to give you a piece of her mind, but in the meantime, I can tell you that the AVERAGE age of our new editors is 25.67 years. |
