| Disco Joe | 16 Oct 2013 5:09 a.m. PST |
"If you were Stifled without your knowledge, would it bother you?"
Bill. if you are trying your best not to offend anyone it might. |
| LeadLair76 | 16 Oct 2013 5:12 a.m. PST |
@Lord Raglan On the face of it I don't think what Bill did is all that abnormal. Hired new people and introduced us to said people. Is it possible that he is some kind of raging pervert? Yes, it is of course but I don't think what he did is wrong on the face of it. I have been on plenty of wargaming related sites / blogs that have pictures of the people who run the show. They are all old white guys but I don't think putting a picture of an asian female is out of line in any way. Of course I don't know the editors motives but it certainly seems innocent enough on the face of it. Just my 2 cents. |
 StoneMtnMinis  | 16 Oct 2013 6:15 a.m. PST |
Actually, most of these complaints are of the "tempest in a teacup" variety. I really don't have any problems with TMP, other than the obviously low intelligence level of those members that stifle me. Dave |
 MrHarold  | 16 Oct 2013 6:34 a.m. PST |
How on earth is this normal behaviour?I am not aware of any other wargame related company that feels the need to publicize the fact it employs young Asian females and moreover, puts accompanying photos of them on its website. A couple of these photos make them look like pubescent teenagers – your actions disgust me. Raglan Would you feel the same way if it was a couple of guys? I agree with LeadLair76, almost all miniatures website have pictures of the folks who run it. Check out beasts of war for instance. While I thought some of the comments from the readership was a little odd, I don't think Bill said anything inappropriate. I would like to hear from the new editors when they get a chance and see how they feel about it. I think you're being a little harsh to be honest. |
| Dee Jay | 16 Oct 2013 6:59 a.m. PST |
Perhaps as a way of raising revenue, perhaps only supporting members should be allowed the privilege of being able to stifle? |
 Editor in Chief Bill   | 16 Oct 2013 7:05 a.m. PST |
A couple of these photos make them look like pubescent teenagers – your actions disgust me. While it would not be appropriate for me to announce the ages of everyone who works here, I can assure you that none of them are teenagers!  |
| MacSparty | 16 Oct 2013 7:06 a.m. PST |
I probably shouldn't, but I'll chime in… I think maybe the point trying to be made is that while there is nothing wrong in and of itself in introducing new employees to the members of the community (in fact, it helps personalize things, and they have brought a certain amount of levity to the conversations), perhaps a cue could be taken from the corporate world and professional headshots used? Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate a photo of a scantily clad beautiful young woman as much as the next guy, but it's a little difficult to explain to the wife that, no, really, I'm looking at a gaming site! |
| MrHarold | 16 Oct 2013 7:16 a.m. PST |
I agree, headshots would be "more professional"… but those also cost money. Here are some of the pictures:
Here are some pictures from other gaming sites:
It all seems pretty reasonable to me. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 7:38 a.m. PST |
…a photo of a scantily clad beautiful young woman… Scantily clad? Not on TMP! |
| Editor Julia | 16 Oct 2013 7:45 a.m. PST |
I am not aware of any other wargame related company that feels the need to publicize the fact it employs young Asian females and moreover, puts accompanying photos of them on its website. A couple of these photos make them look like pubescent teenagers – your actions disgust me. First, Bill puts the picture of newly hired people for introduction (except mine). Second, He is not parading, and we are not even thinking about it. It is just normal to introduce a new worker. Third, you may think we are young (or me), but you don't know me or us yet. Thank you! |
| MacSparty | 16 Oct 2013 7:53 a.m. PST |
Fair enough, Bill. :) But I admit I followed a link to the facebook page. Wow! Not the average TMPer! ;) Still, for the record, I'm interested in the unique perspective the new editors may be able to provide. Certainly they are coming at it differently from the traditional Euro/male point of view. |
| Editor Claire | 16 Oct 2013 7:55 a.m. PST |
I wish I was a teenager, it's such a very big complement for me knowing that you're thinking I am a teenager, thank you so much!!! have a nice day, everyone!!! |
| MacSparty | 16 Oct 2013 7:58 a.m. PST |
Oh, just one other thought: I also have long had an interest in the culture of the Philippines. It probably stems from when my mom's family hosted an exchange student from the Philippines back in the day, then his mom sent me some homemade clothes she sewed for me when I was a baby. I still have them, and was able to dress my daughters in them. I'd like to go there some day. |
| MrHarold | 16 Oct 2013 8:07 a.m. PST |
Oh, and speaking of the philippines, I hope the most recent earthquake over there didn't effect you guys and that your familes are safe! |
| klepley | 16 Oct 2013 8:33 a.m. PST |
So what some people are saying is that Bill should only hire middle to elderly white males as that is what is the basis of this hobby? Some very strange comments from people regarding what someone should look like and how they perceive things. If you are seeing problems with this, than maybe you should look at yourself and see what is wrong, as your perception may be the problem. Having a large majority of Filipino friends, I can say that the majority of them look young, in shape and are nice people to deal with. It is a shame they don't fit the concept of how an employee "should look" at least in your mind. |
| Lord Raglan | 16 Oct 2013 8:48 a.m. PST |
Gentlemen, Everybody is entitled to their point of view and therefore I believe the decision to display these young women on this type of website and in such a way, leaves me questioning the motives. I sincerely hope Bill is a genuine person and his intentions are purely in the interest of his employees. Maybe I would be more suitably reassured if Bill also employed a middle aged Asian man (after all, surely they have as much to offer this hobby as anyone else). Raglan |
| alexjones | 16 Oct 2013 9:10 a.m. PST |
Raglan, Do you also object to white men marrying younger Asian women? |
| klepley | 16 Oct 2013 9:12 a.m. PST |
Again, you hire the person who fits the job, not the person you feel will "fit" the job. Do you go to conventions? Are you upset when you see a female selling a product? Are you upset when people who own companies in the gaming industry hire young pretty females to help sell their product? Yes, everyone has an opinion, I agree. Anyone can bias or make innuendos in any situiation. The important thing is, will they get the job done. Many years ago, how would have felt had you seen a young white male being a designer for women's designer clothes? Should they only hire young white women?
Thanks,
Kevin |
| klepley | 16 Oct 2013 9:16 a.m. PST |
FirstBrigade, funny you should say that. My fiance is 37 and Asian, but looks like she could be 14 due to her size….so you can imagine the looks I get..lol… |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 9:23 a.m. PST |
Maybe I could be more suitably reassured if Bill also employed a middle aged Asian man (after all, surely they have as much to offer this hobby as anyone else). I don't discriminate on the basis of age or gender, I just hire the most qualified people. |
| alexjones | 16 Oct 2013 9:24 a.m. PST |
I think the decision to hire Filipinas has everything to do with the fact that the editor has a Filipino wife and nothing to do with any of the motives hinted at here. Believe it or not, the UK and Wales isn't the yardstick by which all other nations and cultures should gauage their business or morality. Just the opposite, in fact. There are few opportunities in the Philippines and the chance to work for an American company would be very sought after. Good luck to them. |
| Lord Raglan | 16 Oct 2013 9:36 a.m. PST |
I don't discriminate on the basis of age or gender, I just hire the most qualified people.
Of course you do Bill. Do you also object to white men marrying younger Asian women?
Not at all, when the couple marry for love – good luck to them. However, when a young Asian women feels absolutely driven to such an arrangement with some fat middle aged balding guy, on the grounds of establishing some financial security for herself and her family – yes I do have an issue with this type of exploitation. Raglan |
| MrHarold | 16 Oct 2013 9:48 a.m. PST |
Might I suggest we're going a bit off-topic here? The new editors seem perfectly capable of handling their job, and I think it's great to get new perspective. I understand where you're coming from, but it seems a bit disingenuous to associate the new editors of TMP with being driven to work at TMP via some nefarious means. In fact, it seems a bit insulting to me to be honest. |
| LeadLair76 | 16 Oct 2013 10:32 a.m. PST |
@Lord Raglan
Probably be my last post on the subject as it seems an odd thing to be agitated about to me but barring some evidence on your part that something nefarious is going on here I would suggest you are at the very least overreacting to a situation that on the surface does not seem to warrant your reaction. As some others have stated I think you should consider your personal feelings with regards to Bill. I don't know either one of you but it seems to me you are projecting some pretty negative feelings you have for Bill into this situation. Anyway hope you understand where I am coming from. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 10:47 a.m. PST |
I just hire the most qualified people.
Of course you do Bill. Look, if you want to insult me, fine. But when you insult the other editors, then you're over the line. If you think Julia isn't qualified, you don't know Julia. She is a human dynamo, extremely bright, and one of the nicest human beings you'll ever meet. Before she was hired, Claire showed her worth by writing articles for another project of mine. She's an extremely popular author, a hard worker, and a really nice person. Our latest editor has also proved herself, by doing such a good job elsewhere that I simply had to hire her for TMP. She outworked every other person we considered for the job. Now, she also happens to be a beauty queen, but that has absolutely nothing to do with why she was hired – and Julia did the initial interviewing, not me. These are all future champions, which is why I hired them. |
| Thomas Whitten | 16 Oct 2013 10:52 a.m. PST |
Being able to not see topics started by people whom I have stifled would get me to join back right away. As it is now, I will wait till I have something to sell in the market place before I join again. I have no interest in funding an 'upgrade' I may not find useful. |
| Silent Pool | 16 Oct 2013 10:55 a.m. PST |
These are all future champions, which is why I hired them. Lovely. What are their opinions on whether to do away with the Stifle Table? |
| Lord Raglan | 16 Oct 2013 11:16 a.m. PST |
Actually, I am not trying to insult Bill or his assistant editors with my protest. As a paying customer, I am simply making a point that I don't agree with Bill on this one and I find this business distasteful. Furthermore, I am not bothered if others agree or disagree with me, as long as I make my point and distance myself from what I believe to be questionable behaviour. Raglan |
| Dee Jay | 16 Oct 2013 12:06 p.m. PST |
I see I've picked up a few more "numpties", whilst I have no regard in the slightest for their opinion. I do find the public way stifles are reported distasteful. Accordingly, I for one will not renew my supporting membership whilst stifle information remains public. Oh and stifle away please, those who are so inclined  as "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
| MrHarold | 16 Oct 2013 12:06 p.m. PST |
Actually, I am not trying to insult Bill or his assistant editors with my protest. As a paying customer, I am simply making a point that I don't agree with Bill on this one and I find this business distasteful.Furthermore, I am not bothered if others agree or disagree with me, as long as I make my point and distance myself from what I believe to be questionable behaviour. Raglan First, I'm being sincere here (the reason I say that is because text lacks inflection), but I'm a little confused on what you actually find distasteful? Second, especially with the new info that these other editors came recommended by an already hired editor, does that make more sense now why he might've hired more women? Not that Bill is putting out ads specifying a woman to hire, but that the female editor happens to know good people who would work well in the TMP environment, and that they also happen to be female? I hate to seem like i'm belaboring this point (and I think i'm getting close) but I just don't have a good grasp on what you feel is questionable behavior. I will agree though that some of the comments from the readership have been a little… off, but that's bound to happen on a large discussion board like this one. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 12:36 p.m. PST |
What are their opinions on whether to do away with the Stifle Table? PM them and ask them. |
| Cincinnatus | 16 Oct 2013 1:04 p.m. PST |
I think this situation would make a lot more sense if the new employees had even a tiny bit of gaming related experience. Since they don't, it seems odd that they would be hired. Don't get me wrong, I've hired people who were not entirely qualified but who I liked their work ethic and felt they could get up to speed. But lucky for me they were not pretty young girls because a white male hiring pretty girls with seemingly few qualifications is always going to raise eyebrows. |
| MacSparty | 16 Oct 2013 1:11 p.m. PST |
I think this situation would make a lot more sense if the new employees had even a tiny bit of gaming related experience. Since they don't, it seems odd that they would be hired. As one in the writing business, I know good writers/editors are hard to find, pretty girls or otherwise. And people are often surprised to hear that writers often write about things they know nothing about. For example, today I was writing about reverse osmosis water purification systems used in power plants. What do I know about that? (A: More than I did this morning!) |
| MrHarold | 16 Oct 2013 1:16 p.m. PST |
They're showing an effort to learn though! TMP link |
| Cincinnatus | 16 Oct 2013 1:21 p.m. PST |
Mainstream printed periodicals and sites with real articles are a completely different animal. What exactly do we have on TMP today that requires good writers? 90% of the content is written by users with no editor involved. The remaining wouldn't be hurt by having a good writer/editor involved but give me an average writer who knows the domain any day when it comes to hobby articles. |
| chriskrum | 16 Oct 2013 2:04 p.m. PST |
These aren't editors in the sense of those who edit others writing or even oversee the publication of numerous articles or a book. I'm not really clear on what they're "editing." Is it spam patrolling on the boards? Rules violation and dawghousing? Frankly, that's the kind of thing that could be done with user/trusted moderation overseen with an appeals system. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 4:00 p.m. PST |
These aren't editors in the sense of those who edit others writing or even oversee the publication of numerous articles or a book. You should see the Hobby News articles before the editors get through with them. |
| chriskrum | 16 Oct 2013 4:07 p.m. PST |
|
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 4:14 p.m. PST |
Actually, they're all assistant webmasters. It's just that I'm "The Editor," so they are all "Editor (blank)" |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 4:16 p.m. PST |
What exactly do we have on TMP today that requires good writers? I'm not limiting my thinking to "today." |
| Smokey Roan | 16 Oct 2013 4:30 p.m. PST |
Wow, this is all sarcsm and kidding, right? This can't be serious. |
| Cincinnatus | 16 Oct 2013 5:01 p.m. PST |
Not sure what you have planned for tomorrow but the best "original" material I would expect from the new employees is the same type of thing Tango provides. Links to other people's stuff. It's your site and you can hire who you want. I'm just pointing out why there might be some people who don't understand what they are paying for when it comes to an upgrade. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 16 Oct 2013 5:13 p.m. PST |
I'm just pointing out why there might be some people who don't understand what they are paying for when it comes to an upgrade. That's simple – they're paying for people to do what I spend all day doing, so I can go and move us to TMP 4.0. |
| badwargamer | 17 Oct 2013 1:19 a.m. PST |
Andrew Preziosi…totally agree that 'ignore' would be better than 'stifle'. That is what it does. I sometimes think the name makes people feel like it does something to the person 'stifled'.
I also agree there is no need for the table. I don't even see a need for knowing how many stifles you have. But the majority (of people who voted at least) seem to like it, so hey ho, no problem to me.
It could definitely be seen to be a childish element to it, but this a site for grown men to talk about playing with toys, so it's not exactly out of place!! |
| badwargamer | 17 Oct 2013 1:29 a.m. PST |
As for the other topic in this thread. I initially thought it a bit odd that the boss was hiring people with no wargaming experience/knowledge. I also thought it wasn't a great idea to have people who, judging by their posts, didn't have a perfect grasp of English. However, I imagine that there is a cost implication in this, and I'm sure that the new editors will do a good job.
As for exploitation, that is rubbish. Giving people a legitimate job is a great thing. We are not talking 'Thai-Brides' here, just giving people in another country a job.
The problem lies with our perception. When we see the odd looking wargamer with a young Asian (or Eastern European) wife, we seem to think of love as the last reason she is with him. It's sad really that we think that.
Anyway, good look Assistant Editors! |
| Silent Pool | 17 Oct 2013 2:28 a.m. PST |
PM them and ask them Oh come on. They are following this thread. They just can't be ****d to state their opinion. Maybe there is a party line to follow. Whatever. And you can hire whoever you like to do the job and good luck to them, to you, and TMP. No issue. |
| 15th Hussar | 17 Oct 2013 4:22 a.m. PST |
It could definitely be seen to be a childish element to it, but this a site for grown men to talk about playing with toys, so it's not exactly out of place!! That ended that argument real fast, Badwargamer!  BTW, just so everyone is on the same page in re: Lord Raglan, I hardly know him, but I do know that he works with disadvantaged and oftimes, exploited youth and young adults. He's looking at this "We have a new editor…and another one…and a new one" situation from a different angle than most of us do. He very well could be absolutely wrong, but I thought it best to at least apprise youse guise of his point of view. Hopefully this slight revelation will cause some of you who have stifled him to reconsider your decisions. If you still feel the need to absolutely "Stifle" someone, feel free to transfer your dislike in my general direction! Thanks to Badwargamer's eye opening revelation, I need to catch up to the stifle counts OFM and Tango01 have generated and I have a long way to go! Pbbbt! |
| Silent Pool | 17 Oct 2013 4:33 a.m. PST |
…I need to catch up to the stifle counts OFM and Tango01 What, those two boys? Think BIG. If the dear Editor insists on including a Stifle Table then please do him the curtesy and crane your head further backwards to view those higher flying birds. (Ahem, no names, no numbers, no pack of lies…) |
| Editor Julia | 17 Oct 2013 5:05 a.m. PST |
I am not bothered about stifling, not because I cannot be stifled, but because I don't stifle anyone. I think stifle is good enough for those sensitive people who can easily be hurt by words and judgement of other. At least it abates pain not reading the worst opinion after the bad one. Spoken. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Oct 2013 5:24 a.m. PST |
I do know that he works with disadvantaged and oftimes, exploited youth and young adults.He's looking at this "We have a new editor…and another one…and a new one" situation from a different angle than most of us do. He very well could be absolutely wrong, but I thought it best to at least apprise youse guise of his point of view. If he's so concerned, why doesn't he talk directly to the editors? |
