"Black Cat Bases - communication and order issues" Topic

Hi,
I've just had my first bad experience with a wargames retailer and it's Black Cat bases.
I placed two orders with them on the 14th and 18th of August and the value of each order was for about £26.00 GBP I have not received either order and despite frequently emailing them about the issue have had no reply. Calling their listed phone number only results in an answer phone message and they have not responded to any texts.
I have now read a thread on the consumer affairs board saying that others have also not received orders or been able to contact the company and the problem has been going on since at least September.
A message from Black Cat does say they have had problems in fulfilling orders due to problems with their internet and illness. However, there has been no further update on the situation in nearly a month.
Frankly I am very dissatisfied with them. Despite their issues they were happy to take my money from me without providing the goods. I don't know how to proceed and whether or not I can open a Paypal dispute. I'd still really rather have the figures I ordered than a refund as many of the items I wanted are unique. I hope that Black Cat can sort their issues and fulfill my orders but until then I would warn anyone not to order anything from them.
Yours,
George

Too bad about all the negative reports lately. Black Cat have some good products no one else carries, and they were reliable in the past.

Me too same position. Order early Sept , paid, no comms. I will try ringing again tomorrow, but if no joy , then it's PayPal dispute time.

i had a problem as you can see by the previous post. Had to Paypal resolve it. just been refunded. its a shame because they had some good figures and iv used them in the past and they were very good If it wasn't for the time deadline and lack of funds i would have continued waiting. I hope they are ok and get back on their feet again soon

I am wondering why it is so desperately hard for small companies in this situation to spend 60 seconds and simply post "shop closed due to illness, please check back with us in a bit".

It's not like this isn't a tale we've heard before -- real life intervenes & that's crap & generally people understand, but they'd understand a lot more if, when a company wasn't in a position to honour orders, they turn off the web ordering system!!!

I've not been able to make contact in months… I hope they're all right.

I am wondering why it is so desperately hard for small companies in this situation to spend 60 seconds and simply post "shop closed due to illness, please check back with us in a bit".

Perhaps, Katie, because in this instance of stated issues with their internet connection, which in this instance may be preventing further updates.

But what would I know about running a small business while coping with a severe illness in my immediate family…

xxx Ian

Hi,
If they are having problems with their internet connection, how is it that I can make an order and payment is deducted from my Paypal account straight away? Is it something automatic and not to do with Black Cat? Is their lack of a viable phone number or active response to email a breach of UK distance selling regulations?
All the best,
George,

If they are having problems with their internet connection, how is it that I can make an order and payment is deducted from my Paypal account straight away? Is it something automatic and not to do with Black Cat?

It's automatic, because the shop will be hosted remotely. They will need an internet connection to log in to their shop on the admin side to retrieve orders. At least that's how mine works.

Is their lack of a viable phone number or active response to email a breach of UK distance selling regulations?

Distance selling regulations in essence define the customer's rights about delivery and returns. Contact details are more a requirement of the European 2002 ecommerce directive. Even that apparently only requires you to have valid contact details; the short guide has nothing in it about how responsive a retailer has to be.

Oh, that is an interesting aspect that I had not thought about, Ian. Does that in fact mean that if a seller suffers from internet outage people will be able to order stuff and pay stuff but the seller won't even be able to see that orders are being made since they cannot receive email or access the (remotely hosted) web shop?

Internet connection issues preventing closing shop for 3 months? That's hardly likely.. I'd expect one in such a situation to log on from wherever possible just to post that one notification.

Does that in fact mean that if a seller suffers from internet outage people will be able to order stuff and pay stuff but the seller won't even be able to see that orders are being made since they cannot receive email or access the (remotely hosted) web shop?

Precisely. I get confirmation emails from my hosted shop that customers have placed orders, but I need to log in over the internet to print packing lists/invoices that contains useful details such as the customer's address.

Internet connection issues preventing closing shop for 3 months? That's hardly likely.. I'd expect one in such a situation to log on from wherever possible just to post that one notification.

I suspect the main issue is more Ben's illness. Some people are just better able when faced with such a crisis about getting important things done, like informing customers about the state of their orders.

I know I only coped when my wife was severely ill for two years because I streamlined the business, relying on the online shop to keep me on the tracks. When I accidentally and irretrievably shredded a pile of phone and mail orders during this time of high stress and anxiety, I at least had the wit to confess on my site and on TMP about it. Even then as a result I suspect a handful of customers think my customer service is absolutely the worst. :-)

Anyway, either customers trust Jo and Ben to eventually deliver the goods, with some sympathy regarding their situation, or customers can't wait and file PayPal disputes, which with no response will default in customers' favour.

Hi,
Thanks for the info Ian. If their shop is working automatically then I guess there could be a huge backlog of orders waiting for Black Cat to see and fill. I'll let my order run for a bit in the vain hope that it is fulfilled.
Thanks also for the information on the e-selling issues.
However, I also agree with Sappihappo that they should find some sort of way to access the web and post some information about their current situation even if it is just a post on TMP. The longer they are silent, the more likely customers or potential customers are likely to think there is something seriously wrong with the business and that could affect them badly.
All the best,
George.

"But what would I know about running a small business while coping with a severe illness in my immediate family…"

Yes, I'm not unfamiliar with the situation; I also know what it's like -- although in my case it was ME with the serious illness. And I also know there's a set of things that do actually have to get done unless you're definitely dead; the VAT and HMRC are front of the queue because they can send you to prison[1] for not doing their forms but telling the customers something is next otherwise you don't have any if you survive.

(Companies House can be left because they just send you a letter complaining bitterly about how you don't talk to them anymore. NI Contribs would take two years to notice a nuclear war…)

"Anyway, either customers trust Jo and Ben to eventually deliver the goods, with some sympathy regarding their situation, or customers can't wait and file PayPal disputes, which with no response will default in customers' favour."

Yes, but that's downgrading their ratings with PayPal -- who will eventually kill their account and may refuse to re-establish it later. This is why turning the webstore off would a sensible thing to do; surely borrowing a laptop and a connection for five minutes isn't that outrageous.

Maybe, at a more strategic level, businesses could pair up? One is the emergency contact for the other and could do some of the communications and at a pinch turn off a webstore? So there isn't this thing of companies just going dark.

(And for the record; I think your customer service was and is excellent.)

[1] They probably still will if you're dead but it's less of a worry then.

Hi,
I just tried to go to the Black Cat Bases web site and got web page not available. I suppose that could mean they have taken action to stop any more orders being placed or it could mean their problems are getting worse. I still haven't had any communication from them.
Frankly I've had enough and I'm going to open a PayPal dispute to try and get my money back.
All the best,
George.

No their website is still up and running. just been to it and able to log into my account with them. It says that the next show they do will be Crisis in Antwerp in November. Hope they are ok.

Zen turtle…

That says shows for 2012 … It is seriously out of date.

Pay pal dispute resolved and money returned. Some simple comms could have averted. So off to spend somewhere else.

Watchdog this week highlighted the poor service provide by Openreach, which provides and services the infrastructure that all non-mobile UK phone service providers use.

In the two examples cited, customers had been waiting two and four months for Openreach to fix the lines so the customers could have landline phones and internet access. Domestic customers cannot contact Openreach direct about a line problem and must go through their phone service provider, be it BT (which in essence is the same company as Openreach), Talk Talk, Orange or whatever. In one of the Watchdog examples, it took involvement of a local MP to get Openreach to shift off its butt and fix the lines.

If, in the UK, someone therefore reports they are having internet and phone issues, they may well be suffering because Openreach has quite simply done nothing to rectify a problem for months and months on end.

Fighting15

Interesting angle. And of course entirely plausible. And also work round able . Use someone else's connection , or use a 3G/4g mobile connection do to at least a single update.

Wish I had read this thread before ordering.

The website is still up. Still taking orders. No communication.

PayPal dispute time then. :-(