"Fate of a Nation review" Topic

Check out my review of battlefronts new supplement Fate of Nation. This is some awesome stuff. Closer and closer to modern day fighting. kylesminispage.blogspot.com

Well when you do get it I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

First of all I have to say that I am delighted that FOW have taken this step and I think they have done a pretty decent job.

At the moment I don't think there is enough here that will satisfy the purists as it is a limited range of models and basic force lists. They do lack things like rockets and ATGW like the French S11 and 12 .

However I think its a step in the right direction because it gives us more models for this conflict and the force lists do look workable.

If it is a success I dare say FOW will invest more into the period and bring out proper books and more detailed lists and more models of which I am sure would be welcomed .

It's good, it's very good. Unlike the Vietnam mini-supplement that came out a couple of years ago in WI, this one didn't have any new rules except for national specific ones…and even they are mostly based on the ones you already know from the original game only this time the Israelis get the German special rules, the Egyptians the Soviet ones and the Jordanians are a little bit of this and that.

Sure, there's stuff they left out like the Israeli paratroops and the Jordanian infantry but this was only designed to cover the 6 day war (the rockets and AT missiles were more a feature of the Yom-Kippur war) and only the armour battles so if the feedback is good and sales of the new models are good then I expect to see a bigger hardback book out in 12-18 months. The question is, then, will they do separate ones for each war?

One surprising omission was the AMX-13.

The AMX-13 is there

As an avid student of the period, I am very happy about Battlefronts commitment to this period. The issue I have is not on Battlefront, but on the historical facts that show this war was sooooooo one sided, that there is very little the rules can do to make it balanced. Based on troop quality and sheer motivation alone, the sides are a million miles apart. Add absolute air supermacy and IDF tanks with modified 105 cannons, there is very little the Arabs can historically do in 1967.

Not to mention the total absence of leadership on the Arab side.

I agree with that i think that this will be awesome for recreating those epic tank battles that happened and i hope they keep going and do the yon kippur war were the odds were a bit better for the arabs.

The issue I have is not on Battlefront, but on the historical facts that show this war was sooooooo one sided, that there is very little the rules can do to make it balanced. Based on troop quality and sheer motivation alone, the sides are a million miles apart. Add absolute air supermacy and IDF tanks with modified 105 cannons, there is very little the Arabs can historically do in 1967.

I don't know, the Jordanians seem to have fared pretty well. M48s and Centurions versus Shermans and AMX13s is pretty harsh.

Seriously, a single Sho't is 205 points and a single T54 or T55 is 55 points. Can you say "outnumbered"?

Adam's right, 1967 is a walkover. A strange choice. It's like building a WWII pacific carrier war system around Pearl Harbor instead of Midway.

Then again I guess it made sense from a business perspective because it already fit in with their Vietnam vehicles, and the rules didn't require the missiles that made 1973 so different -- ATGMs and SAMs.

Yeah, just got my 2nd hand copy of FOW, looking at playing this using 6mm

I'm really looking forward to how this will work out im building up my UAR and IDF forces now and cant wait to get some battles in. I ended up going with the old glory tanks but they have some good quality stuff for a great price. you can check out my review for them here. kylesminispage.blogspot.com

It's a bit too fantasy for me. The Israelis were so superior when they attacked their neighbours that everyone's strategic assessment was that they would defeat all of them within days. This "backs to the wall" nonsense is pure fiction. Of course, we know the reason BF chose '67, but '73 makes for a better wargame, and 2006 even better with Israel's defeat at the hands of the Hezbollah.

While I totally agree that '73 will be a far better game (and '82 for that matter, I'm DYING for BF to make a Merkava), I'd like to think of the Arab/Israeli wars in similar terms of how BF divided WWII. '67 is early war, '73 is mid war, '82 is late war. Uniforms and small arms didn't change terribly much so as they expand into Yom Kippur I can use my armored infantry for that system. I'll just have to set aside the M3A1 Halftracks for M113 Zeldas and replace M48 variants with M60 variants. What they're doing seems logical from my point of view and gives me hope that they'll keep going down the route of more modern stuff. Sure the Israelis were historically dominant in '67 but weren't the Germans in '39? I say give it a chance and see where it takes us. Can't wait for some Israeli infantry lists because the Golan Heights are going to be brutal.

I agree with you and I think that battlefront is moving in the right direction with there recent modern combat endeavors. I hope they keep with it and make its own range cause they can do so many things from here.

Additionally, the only thing at this point that is missing from BF is aircraft, T-62s, and M-60s. Everything else is there to do Yom Kippur right now and for the rest just get models off ebay or your favorite manufacturer. A quick ebay search turned up a company called Miniwing that makes these fantastic (although a bit pricey) 1/144 aircraft. They don't make an Ouragan but they do make the Mirage IIIc, Super Mystere, and Nesher. The first two were in the 6 days war and all 3 were used in Yom Kippur.

I have been working on building forces for both 1967 & 1973. I plan on running a Golan Heights Game at Little Wars in April. For the Syrians I have a tank battalion of 41 T55s, 5 SU-100s, 10 BTR-50pks & for infantry I went with Khurasan Infantry, the remainder are all BF models.

For the saggers I posted a suggestion to BF on how I would use them and the response was favorable. Man-Paked Gun teams, ROF:1, Range:40", AT: 15 (no drop off in AT value over 16"), FP 4. Cannot move and shoot in the same turn, and they cannot shoot at targets under 16".

I agree with the favorable response. I have been eyeballing Khurasan's modern US infantry because it looks so so good but I heard they are way too tall. I made a forum post on BF's modeling website about magnetizing the barrels on Magachs for flexibility in army choice during the Six Day War but after realizing that all Israeli tanks were upgraded to the 105mm by Yom Kippur, I think I'll just go that route.

Btw, anyone interested in the Miniwing kits can find them here miniwing.cz/models_1_144

I came across this review and your responce to it. General feeling i read here is you guys think it kinda odd they took the six day war and not yom kippur. Mostly because its such a walkover for the israeli side.

I disagree. At first glance you would say so. After all, in just 6 days israel smashed 3 arab armies against huge numerical odds. That has to be because the ground forces where so out of balance it's not even funny right? (Hence boring to play).

Not so. Arab forces did stand and fight. Where they did, israeli forces took big losses.
Main reasons israel smashed the arab in 1967 has much more to do with other factors than on the tactical level. More so than in 1973 for example and so much more fun to play in fow.
israel won so fast because:
- they launched a true surprise attack. Arab forces where in part still scrambling to gather and get in place.
- fase 1, and a total requirement before moving one foot on the ground was getting total air superiority. brilliantly done it realy was a major factor for the upper hand they had on the ground.
- israeli intell was superb and unprecedented. In the sinai they knew the land better than the arabs. With vastly better maps and adapted vehicles they went through area's the arabs thought impassible.surprise within the surprise. The arab 4th armoured drove straight into an ambush this way and fortifications where bypassed.
- the arabs had no true unified command. Syria hardly lifted a finger while egypt got clobbered in the sinai. Israel could take each front one at a time.

Arab forces where thus routinely bypassed and cut off from supplies. Many never even got off a shot. Being hounded through the desert fleeing back to the channel.

Arab forces sometimes had 2nd generation tanks while the israelis worked with souped up old tanks. When going toe to toe they drew blood and fought well.

In short; if you look better the 6 day war might even be more intetesting with its huge variety in equipment and more one on one equality.

for me: this supplement rules