"Black Powder Cavalry Question" Topic

Evening all

I fear I'm missing something in the rules regarding cavalry.

Having played a lot of games this weekend against non-napoleonic players I've noticed a few issues

1) Infantry just brazenly walking up to cavalry and firing volleys at them. Nothing seems to prevent this.

2) Countless times my cavalry caught infantry in line, yet Cavalry don't get ANY modifiers to reflect this in h-to-h. They then lose a h-to-h melee or in one case got bayonet charged by some highlanders!

Anyone got any suggestions how to avoid this in future?

F

Play Warhammer Historical Waterloo or Lassalle instead.

IMHO, BP is too unpredictable and games are often won through luck more than the player's tactical decisions.

Raglan

Hi Ferg,

Yes I think either you are missing something or your players arent playing to their Arm strengths, possibly because you haven't done your pre game admin?

1) All Napoleonic infantry should have the 'must form square' attribute

2) See 1)

Hope this helps. The 'must form square' attribute in in the 'a selection of helpful' rules section at the back (don't have access to my copy att)

The thing with Black Powder is, its not simply a 'fast play' set – it just moves all the hard work and research to before the game, rather than during it – you still need to set up and select the appropriate special rules and factors for Napoleonics. But once you've done that appropriately it will fly, but hopefully without these anomalies!

The Albion Triuphant – Waterloo book has some rules additions for different kinds of squares and how they form.

As far as 2) goes, if your cavalry is charging they usually get more dice than infantry, in the case of heavy cavalry possibly as much as 9 vs. 3. They will be charging so they will hit on 3+ vs. 4+. If the infantry charge them, you can counter charge and they automatically become disordered in which case they hit on 5+ and you hit on 3+.

"BP is too unpredictable and games are often won through luck more than the player's tactical decisions."

Yeah, that makes it too much like real war.

The rules state infantry can't declare charges against cavalry.

I've only been run down by cavalry twice. Usually, if charged from the front you should form square automatically, we play that if charged from the flank or rear they have to roll to see if they can.

If I remember a charging cavalry unit has a lot of dice. It's also better to charge disordered units or units that already have picked up two or three disruption points.

I don't think even Napoleonic horse tried headlong frontal charges against well formed fresh infantry.

ferg , you need to go back over the cavalry rules as well as "must for square". If I remember correctly,,,,infantry can not just march up to cavalry that way.

"The rules state infantry can't declare charges against cavalry."

I believe the rules state that you can declare a charge against cavalry but that if you do the cavalry can counter charge and automatically disorder you.

That´s it exactly Pictors, on page 57 for those scoring at home.

Really, if the game had been played as it should, then the above issues would not have happened. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and get it right next time, for a much more enjoyable game

and Ferg,,,,,,remember to ride those infantry into the ground.

and to ride them into the ground:

Soften them up first with fire power

Support your cavalry with some horse artillery

Back it up with infantry to take the ground

Have fun

I've also had some issues with the fact that cavalry doesn't seem terribly good against infantry. 34 out of 36 times the infantry will successfully form square, at which point the cavalry can't do anything at all (which is reasonable as far as that goes). Even if the infantry fails and is disordered (and ought to be just ridden down) the infantry actually still has a fairly good chance of winning the combat. The cavalry will be hitting on a 3+ and infantry on a 5+ so the cavalry should score twice as many hits (maybe a few more if they are heavy or lancers) but after the morale saves the margin of victory will probably only be a hit or two and if the infantry has more support (and it usually will) the cavalry could still end up losing or in a draw. This was brought home dramaticvally in a recent game where light cavalry charged infantry in skirmish order (we housed rule that skirmishers can't form square when charged) and the skirmishers still managed to win. Something just isn't right.

Not sure.
I generally don't charge at infantry head on. I have my light horse on the flanks. I don't have heavies yet.
Cavalry are very useful. Try engaging his infantry to the front, with your own columns, lines or skirmishers. Then soften them up a bit first.

It wasn't to common for cavalry to charge headlong into infantry alone. Remember time is abstracted in the game, really that three move charge you had was probably more than enough time for your cav to have been spotted and infantry to prepare.

Cav is extremely dangerous if used properly. My best "cavalry" battle involved my unit just sitting nestled behind some trees, facing my enemies flank. That's all it did, but it kept his infantry stuck in square and my infantry and artillery did the rest. I've never ploughed them headlong into a square, except only into flanks or rears of already engaged infantry. THAT always gets messy.

I've had a couple of opponents who I'd describe as "hard charging". They've never fared we'll and their cav is usually thrown away charging at infantry taking casualties and weakening them enough for my cav to countercharge.

Possibly it's not the rules just the tactics your using. If I'm wrong try tweaking the rules so it feels right.

Have the infantry take a morale test before they form square?
Have a saving throw penalty for troops in line?
Make a house rule saying disordered infantry can't form square?
Give the cav a hit bonus against infantry not in square.

Cavalry would not generally charge a formed line of infantry frontally anyway, since the volume of musketry would stall most assaults – flanking or overalapping generally was what did the damage.

There are several accounts during the Napoleonic Wars of infantry attacking cavalry – even bayonet charging them in one or two cases. Out of period, but look up the battle of Minden in 1759 to see what "solid" infantry can do to even elite cavalry when the latter have to attack frontally.

It just seems to me that if it was such an iron-clad standing belief among Napoleonic armies that squares must be formed when charged by cavalry-so much so that Black Powder includes a rule to reflect that-there must have been a good reason for it. The only reason that I can think of is that infantry in line would be at a big disadvantage against charging cavalry. But the combat rules don't really reflect that. I think the problem I have is that the rules just don't give the cavalry enough attack dice. If you bumped all the cavalry up by two dice they would still be equal against other cavalry (although the combat would be bloodier) but they would have a real edge against infantry they caught out of square.

I also don't think forming square should be automatically successful except on a roll of 2 or 12 (a 1-in-18 chance). There ought to be modifiers based on troop quality and battlefield circumstances. It should be a lot harder to form the square if the cavalry begins its charge from very close (just not enough time to do it). This would discourage the tactic in the game of pushing infantry up close enough to fire at standing cavalry, confident that they'll be able to form square if the cavalry charges.

Scott wrote: "The only reason that I can think of is that infantry in line would be at a big disadvantage against charging cavalry. But the combat rules don't really reflect that."

BP rules state infantry must form square vs cav charge. If they pass you can't engage but you have reduced the inf movement and firepower to 1 die per face. This is a tatical advantage to the army that still can maneuver.

If the inf fails on a 12 it is a disordered square without getting closing fire and cannot receive supports. Even if it wins, the cav is likely to only retire. The square needs to be charged again or hit by fire (arty is best).

If it fails on a 2 it is a disordered line with no closing fire. In AT2 a line forming square is harder and must roll its command to form square.

With cav possibly hiting on 3+ vs. 5+ for the inf, the cav has the advantage. it may take more than 1 charge.

When heavy cav is charging the extra morale bonus and D1-3 combat bonus is important.

Always view BP in the big picture. Don't over analyze the pawn on knight action when it the whole chess game to be considered.

@Ferg981

1) Infantry just brazenly walking up to cavalry and firing volleys at them. Nothing seems to prevent this."

Remeber, the next turn cav may get an atuomatic chance to charge if within 12" proximity distance and force the inf into squre reducing their fire to 1 die. As well as restricting their movement.

"2) Countless times my cavalry caught infantry in line, yet Cavalry don't get ANY modifiers to reflect this in h-to-h.'

Cav would get the +1 charge bonus at a "should be disordered" infantry unit, if you caught them in line. That is 3s vs 5s. What more could one want.

"They then lose a h-to-h melee"

Likely you retire unless your rolls were really bad.

"or in one case got bayonet charged by some highlanders!"

Not allowed as noted above.

Recommend a good read of the rules, make notes and play some more.

Don't the likes of heavy cavalry also get +3 the combat result? Isn't that like effectively scoring three extra hits?

I have only played ACW games so far with black powder and its been great. Just got my first few box's of French ordered from Victrix so shall soon join the Napoleonic campaigning!

Regarding the infantry marching up to cavalry and firing at them. The first Black Powder supplement "Last Argument of Kings" included the simple expedient of restricting firing to those units who have not moved more than 1 move in the turn. This simple change has improved my Napoleonic games. If the cavalry is within 18 inches of the infantry, they either need to be charging or retiring.

Regards

Garry
caseshotpublishing.com

Several BP house rules have moved the firing phase to before Command/Move phase which of course stops Inf moving up to Cav and shooting them in same turn.
It's how I play as bit jarring to watch defending units of any type sit and watch as attackers come into range and give them a volley (likely causing disorder) whilst defenders doing diddly squat.

Another version of house rule is to allow troops to fire when enemy comes in range as as sort of response/opportunity fire and really a simple reuse of Closing Fire rules

In the end I wish these rules had a good index so I am not always stuck saying "I remember it saying somewhere…."

Wargame rules never have indexes. Must be a requirement for publishers, not just Warlord.