"French Revolutionary Wars" Topic

I am starting a new project in this period using 10mm scale figures and possibly LFS rules. Is this the right message board for this period and does anyone have any advice on helpful books on uniform and the composition of the French armies of 1794-6? Thank you in anticipation.

PS Just returned to wargaming after 20 years absence so any advice is much appreciated.

My understanding of this period is that tactics were still mostly linear in nature sharing more with the 7YW than later in the period. I would venture to say that the 18th century board might be a better place to start?

Classic book on this subject has to be Philip Haythornthwaite and Christopher Warner's 'Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars 1789 – 1802' – absolutely great information, well laid out with lavish illustrations, although the research underpinning it was done in the early 1980s.

Originally published by Blandford (might be some second hand copies out there), still available in a 1997 version from Arms and Armour Press, I think….

10mm wise, have you looked at Magister Militum for figures? – they have some great early French – I think the only fly in the ointment is finding Austrians in the right headgear………

Welcome St-Just – do yourself a favour and pick-up the 5 volume set of Phipps' "Armies of the French Revolutionary War and the Making of Napoleon's Marshalls" available in softcover from Pickle Press. (amazon or other providers)

An outstanding history of the Revolutionary wars with an entertaining thesis.

I collect 6mm figures (Adler) for this period and have a considerable number of conversions to cover the unique uniforms and headgear in some of these armies (not for everyone).

Investing in 7yr war Prussians and Austrian figures will be a great help. Prussian Musketeer figures will fill out the ranks of Piedmontese and Dutch armies (all blue coats) as well as post-1796 Russians (dark green coats)very nicely.

Good luck with your adventure!

Beeker

Pendraken has the proper Austrian and French infantry but no cavalry. I am using MM 1806 Saxons for my piedmount force.

Do it in 15mm. AB miniatures. They are just breathtaking

Also you can sell them for top dollar, Also contact Fernado painting service you can't beat the quality and price

"I am starting a new project in this period using 10mm scale figures"

"Do it in 15mm."

It's hard to beat that kind of advice.

The Pendraken are nice figures, but the problem is the range is limited.

MM fit in nicely with Pendraken.

"I am starting a new project in this period using 10mm scale figures"

"Do it in 15mm."

It's hard to beat that kind of advice.

Yep, I'm waiting for someone to suggest doing it in 28mm…..

John a Lynn – Bayonets of the republic (covers the armee du nord in some detail).

Napoleonic Wars Databook has tons of orders if battle and lists of skirmishes for this period aswell.

Good books for a start – as already pointed out :

Hyathornthwaite : Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars

also – one of the best Funcekn books

Funcken : Les Soldats de la Revolution Francaise
very very nicley illustrated

John Lynn : Bayonets of the Republic (a must read for tactics)

For Prussians – 7YW figures won't do at all, there they did wear a complete different headgear.

Tactics, the French were the only ones using aside from the line – columns on the battle – field.

The period is very fascinating, very nice uniforms, great generals, very interesting campaigns.

Look also at Nafziger books, he did a lot of translations of Chuquets books about the French Revolution.

Also check books.google.com

For wargaming armies – Battle Honnors are doing a nice range which can be complemented by the recently superbly sculpted and cast AB (Eureka) Austrian Army.

In 6 mm Adler is promising Austrian Infantry in Kasket.

In case of 28 mm – also Eureka which are expanding steadily their range.

"do yourself a favour and pick-up the 5 volume set of Phipps' "Armies of the French Revolutionary War and the Making of Napoleon's Marshalls" available in softcover from Pickle Press. (amazon or other providers)"

At £20.00 GBP a volume you'd have to be pretty keen !

well I've got a load of 28mm stuff and i'm seriously thinking of changing to 10mm so I 'm with you on the scale.

Now I was talking to Mr Pendraken a while back on the phone about this period -he told me they were planning to revamp the range in the style of their AWI range in other words amazing. Dare I also say he advised my not the buy any of the current range because he felt they weren't up to scratch.

Is there a particular campaign you are more interested in than others? I've managed to find several classics on the Italian campaigns and a very colorful biography of Suvarov on Archive.org.

Do it in 28mm. Just kidding!

I find the French revolutionary wars absolutely fascinating but there does seem to be a dearth of good books covering the subject. Everyone covers the Napoleonic Empire period instead. Very frustrating.
That said you can find information by hook or by crook just by carrying out specific internet searches. Its quite time consuming because all the information is spread out across cyber-space, but it is rewarding collating everything you need through your own efforts. And it will save you having to spend £100.00 GBP on the 5 volumes!

The book recomendations are good.

I would discuss your project with Magister Militum. I am doing the same project but in 15mm and coordinate my largish purchases with the re-releases and additions to his line. The coordination is great. I suspect MM would be amenable to discuss the Austrians if it was commercially viable. I also seem to recall he is working on the 10mm line.

If you are looking for Rules, as far as battles, you might look at the British Grenadier. I seem to recall the recent version or scenario book expanded the rules into French Revolution…I intend to look here once my collection reaches that size. I currently use Ganesha Games' Songs of Drums and Shakos for the skirmishes. I have yet to figure out rules for the larger skirmishes but am considering Too Fat Lardies' Sharpe Practice.

As for painters, Battle Dress Studios paint my French Revolution units that I do not paint myself. They are knowledgable, expert and professional. PM me with any other questions…

Golly! What a splendid set of responses! Thank you all so much for this advice which has given me some really useful lines of enquiry to pursue and many books to buy on line. Thanks, too, to those who gave advice re Pendraken and Magister Militum. I am grateful, too, for that reference to British Grenadier, a rule set I have played at my local club and enjoyed using. Lots to ponder and many very helpful routes to follow. Thank you all very much!!

Almost an essential read is "The Art of War of Revolutionary France 1789-1802" by Paddy Griffith published by Greenhill books, London & Stackpole Books, Pennsylvania.

Abebooks can be useful for picking up second hand & new books that are out of out of print.

The Lynn and Griffiths books are excellent--many thanks for the recommendations. I'm having trouble with uniform details, both Haythornthwaite and the Osprey saying next to nothing about bread and butter stuff such as plumes and epaulettes for grenadiers/carabiniers/voltigeurs. The Funcken book, which would be ideal, costs between £100.00 GBP and £200.00 GBP and my pension doesn't run to that! Are there any decent online rsources for uniform [French and Austrian]? I've tried Google but got nowhere.

Austria

Schema aller Uniform der Kaiserl. Königl. Kriegsvölkern. 1787: link

link Taken from a copy of Abbildung der Neuen Adjustirung der K.K. Armee by Tranquillo Mollo and Joseph George Mansfield. These illustrations cover the uniforms of the Imperial Austrian Army from around 1798. In the Colas this source is indicated as 1796-1798. The very high degree of detail of the different types of uniform, both in the front and the back opinion, makes these illustrations an invaluable source for researching the Austrian Army from the early years of the Napoleonic Wars until 1805.

link Vienna Freikorps 1797

link Geschichte und bildliche Darstellung der Regimenter des Erzhauses Oesterreich. Wien: Reilly,1796. From the Digitale Bibliothek deutscher Drucke des 18. Jahrhunderts – covers the Austrian army in 1796

France

link Uniforms of the French army from 1690 to 1900 by Dr. Lienhart & Humbert.

link Napoleon-Series: 100 uniform plates of Vernet – Lami: The French Army 1791 – 1815.

link 1st to 6th Hussars by René Louis covering Revolutionary to Napoleon & beyond.

link 7th to 14th Hussars by René Louis covering Revolutionary to Napoleon & beyond.

link Uniforms of engineering, artillery & train troops from the Revolution to 2nd Empire – notes and watercolours by Emile Fort.

link The soldiers of the French Republic & Empire by H Bellange.

link Illustrations from the great standard work on the foreign troops of France prepared in 1854 in 2 volumes of Eugène Fieffé published under the title "Histoire des Troupes étrangères au service de France depuis leur origine jusqu'à nos jours et de tous les leves dans les pays Regiment conquis sous la Première République et le'Empire".

link Uniform Plates by Felix Philippoteaux from the work of Adrien Pascal on the French Army Army 1786-1815.

France 1794-95

80 plates from the Album de Mellinet

link

link

link

link

link

link

General:
link or link The Vinkhuijzen Collection of military uniforms and Regimental Regalia held by the New York Public Library. The Collection contains nearly 20,000 prints, drawings, watercolors, and printed book and magazine illustrations of military costume as well as military medals, regalia, insignia, coats of arms, and regimental flags, from most times and places except the United States. Covers ancient to modern periods but use with a bit of caution assome items havebeen catalogued incorrectly. First link to uniforms by country whereas second to subject area.

link Uniform plates by Knotel – not all of the Knotel plates are available.

Thank you very much indeed for all of this information. Overwhelmed by the knowledge and generosity here. I'm sure this will supply all my needs re uniform etc. My thanks again for your full and speedy response.

Citoyen Saint Just

In case you have some questions about uniforms – just ask, don't wory too much about voltigeurs, they did not exist as such in the Republican Armies, so they had chasseurs and eclaireurs.

salut et fraternité

Thank you, v Winterfeldt. My main question relates to flank companies: I know that line regiments had fusiliers and a grenadier company [but, unlike the army of Napoleon, no voltigeur company]. I gather that light infantry had chasseurs and a carabinier company but am unsure whether they had any other flank company. I'm concentrating on the period 1793-6 and am aware of the structural changes involved but have been unable to find out this detail regarding light infantry regiments[ or demi-brigades, rather.] The links I've been given above have been v helpful regarding uniforms but I'd welcome any information on the plumes sported by light infantry: were they green?

Many thanks,

SJ

Chasseurs – had only the company pompom – the elite company, the carabiniers a pied – did wear usually a red plume – or red horsehair "tail" – one had the 9 company per battalion structure, 8 center – in this case Chasseur and one carabinier company.

Very often those elite comanies were taken from the parent units to form ad hoc elite battalions.

Mny thanks, indeed. That gives me what I needed to know.

As for figures, in the smaller scales Pendraken (in 10mm) and Adler (in large 6mm) are in a s…l…o…w race to see who actually gets a relatively complete 1790's range out first. Right now, Adler has an absolutely beautiful early French range, and has had early Austrian infantry in casquet *almost* in production for at least a year or so; however, while there are decent bicorne French in 10mm from other companies (like Redline), Pendraken has been threatening to have Clibinarium do a French Rev range for something bordering on a decade! Leon at Adler is focused on his 10mm ancients right now, but Clibinarium is busy with other companies and still hasn't finished his other signature ranges for Pendraken, so I would still put my money on Adler winning the race. I don't think Baccus (in 6mm) or Magister Militum (in 10mm) ever had any plans for expanding their ranges into the early period – but I would be happy to be wrong if others know otherwise!

Cheers,

Christopher

Not sure its exactly a race lol The problem is early stuff deosnt sell well, doing the early period as a gamer is a tougher job as most rules are rubbish for the period and there is just less 'Waterloo' appeal. Ive done a good chunk of the early Austrians but until the whole kit and kaboodle
is ready they wont go into production.
As a small outfit design time is always short.
L

Hi Leon,

I'm sure we all appreciate that, and I don't have any illusions about my pet little project. I would love to know how well the ambitious Eureka 28mm range is selling though. At any rate, I'm actually thinking of "giving up" for a while and doing Waterloo while I wait! ;)

Cheers

it is an interesting question as to whether it is the lack of a complete (enough) range which holds back a period, or the lack of demand for a period which holds back completing (enough) of the range.

in the end, I think for non-28mm scales, its the rules which will swing a period – once a really good set of rules appears, it will drive purchases which hopefully (and quickly enough) drive the completion of the breadth of range folk want to make that period fully operational.

the 28mm guys do seem to be much happier to impulse purchase any period that looks good and then leave it sitting in a box after they have painted it.

It certainly cannot be source material, as there are many excellent books on the revolutionary campaigns, especially those involving the Corsican.

Keraunos,
Yes its an interesting question, wish I knew the answer! All I know is that we have had the early Russians and Prussians and the early French around for years and we sell more 1812 dress French in one month than the combined sales of those ranges in a year. It really is that much of a difference, which I find very sad as the early period is far and away the more interesting and fun to play and model.
In our case we have to mix 'good earners' in with the non profitable ranges to try and make ends meet. The early Austrians are going to cost £300.00 GBP-400 just in mould costs let alone design time.
Id love to be able to sit here designing all the time but the production side of things and mail order/trade shows just eats time. Some weeks I'm lucky to get a day on the design bench.
I just need to win the lottery so I can retire from everything other than designing lol
L

Hi Keraunos,

I suspect that you are correct. This seems to be the case for many periods and is an excellent marketing approach.

Then there are those who are figure driven ( I must include myself as I am an a-vowed collector of Adlers for 7yrs war through to the 1st Empire). As many commentators on TMP will attest … well painted .. and even some not so well painted Adler and Pendraken figs in 6 and 10mm can give 15mm and 28mm collections a definite run for the money. This is why we pine so! LOL!

However – no pining for this cowboy! Common Chris! Turn that frown up-side down… set aside your plans for Waterloo and start converting your own batch of musketeers into Austrian fusiliers in kaskett!

Happy Revolutionary gaming, collecting.. or whatever one does if not the former/latter.. to ALL!

Cheers!
Beeker

I regret not dropping in on your stand to say hi at derby now, just to say thanks

I did auerstadt in Adler for 06, which was a great project.

Any one considering an historical battle, remember that the small scaled figures are the best to give table space which matches the maps.
there is a lot of empty space on a real battlefield.

Hi Beeker,

Ok, ok, you're right. Except I'm thinking that I might do something different like the 1799 Austro-Russian campaign or the 1806/07 campaign, just to get some of those early figures off Leon's shelves. ;)

Cheers,

Christopher

Word of warning there Chris – you'll still need some of the Kaiser's boys in Kaskett to pull-off 1799-1800 campaigns.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Cheers!
Beeker

some good battle reports – including excellents OdB, thanks to Steven Smith, the googler

link

It's time for a good, solid and complete range of 1792-1797 British range.
In 28mm that is.

LeonAdler

I'll be keeping my eye out for the new Revolutionary miniatures. I hope to be buying quite a few, even though I still have a considerable amount of rev period mins unpainted, as yet. And I'm reading up some material on the Revolutionary period at the moment.