"I miss GW Washes" Topic

OK, so I, like many of you, have been doing this whole painting thing a while. I'm a creature of habit. It annoys me that GW reinvented their whole paint line, but I'm dealing with it.

Recently I ran out of Black Wash. I wisely (?) thought this might happen a few years back, and so I had an unopened bottle of Badab Black to replace it. I figured black wash was black wash, never mind if GW wanted to play their silly name game.

Turns out Badab Black sucks out loud. It's not even remotely like the Black Wash of old. Neither are any of their "new" paints like their old ones. For example, Space Wolf Grey, which I base with, is a lot darker than "Fenrisian Grey". And that's what's supposed to replace it.

Since then, "Badab Black" has been replaced with "Nuln Oil". Is it any better? Probably not.

I'm running out of my washes (and my old paints). Does anyone know if there is a paint line whose washes behave like the late, great GW washes? I know someone told me P3 makes a decent armor wash…anyone have any other suggestions?

I have been using Coat D' Arms paints and washes. They are the same formulation (they used to be the manufacturer for GW paints back in the round and hex bottle days).

They have the full range of paints with different, but obviously similar, names.

If you're looking for the pre- badab wash, and pre nuln oil, they'd be the ones.

I particularly like armor wash, its nice and dark.

You could also try the washes from Secret Weapon. I have a few and I like them quite a bit but I'm not sure how they compare to GW.

PhilDe: Didn't we just trade recently? If so, you have a good trader endorsement coming, bro!

Armor wash is one I'm really worried about, considering I only use it on every miniature I paint that wears armor or carries anything metal. If Coat D'arms makes the same Armor Wash I'm used to, they have my business.

Yes we did! Thanks!

Yes, as far as I can tell, its the same formulation as the old GW armor wash and black wash. Most of my paints are the old GW style so I'm constantly buying CDA paints, and they last sooo much longer than the new GW formulations.

I've used Scale Creep to buy my CDA, but there might be others that carry it in the states as well.

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

You are missing the point.

What's a little, or a large inconvenience to you, and thousands of other customers, next to watering down the paints and washes, so the executives can earn those hefty bonuses from the cost savings gained for the corporation?

Clearly, you need to rethink your priorities a bit.

On the less sarcastic, and serious side, it's good to hear CDA haven't succumbed to the same corporate greed.

Try the Army Painter washes in bottle, the Strong Tone and Dark Tone. They're different from the canned ones, and act very similar to the old washes.

If you don't mind some DIY, you could try these

link

Honestly…. I do not miss them anymore. A year into using the new shades and glazes and I think my stuff is turning out better than it was… although, I am also using more lightly drybrushed on highlights than I used to. I don't really use the glazes much, but I go through a bottle of nuln oil and one of agrax earthshade almost ever 4-5 weeks now.

Oh. And Army painter strong tone ink is a perfect match to the old Devlan mud.

I use the current GW ones. They work fine.

Are you confusion the old GW inks with the washes? The washes are for me far better than the inks, but are designed to shade and are less pigment rich. The Nuln Oil is the same as Badarb black, so won't be a replacement for black ink.

Apart from the change in name, I find the GW line fine for painting and actually find the base, wash, layer etc process fine for those quick jobs.

On the less sarcastic, and serious side, it's good to hear CDA haven't succumbed to the same corporate greed.

Mike's corporate greed extends only to being able to afford a curry after we've done a show together. He has simple requirements. :-)

So, buy Coat d'arms paints: keep Mike in curries.

Ian

"Are you confusion the old GW inks with the washes? The washes are for me far better than the inks, but are designed to shade and are less pigment rich. The Nuln Oil is the same as Badarb black, so won't be a replacement for black ink."

Big Jim is 100% correct! The washes were never meant to be inks and are used in a different fashion. They are FAR superior to the old glossy GW inks, especially if you know what you are doing. I use primarily Vallejo paints now but I still buy GW washes regularly!

Dont you remember when Blood Angels were orange?

Big Jim, Nazrat: Not sure. The Black Wash on the left is what I used forever. The Badab Black is not nearly the same thing.

Warpspeed: Yes. I still have two of the first paints from the space marine paint set. The paints are still good, but the bottles are long gone. Terracotta and Blood Angel Orange. You can see the BA orange on the right.

Yes, Badab Black is completely different from Black Wash. IIRC the latter is an ink, the former is an ink mixed with acrylic medium, flow enhancer, and some matte finish. I find the former much superior and easier to use. But if you prefer the old stuff, I'd just get a bottle of India Ink, much superior IMHO to even the old GW Black Wash.

Damon.

I'd just get a bottle of India Ink, much superior IMHO to even the old GW Black Wash.

After my old 2.0 GW ink (the one you have) ran out, I switched to Dr. Martin's Bombay ink (a dozen-plus different tones, $5 USD at Hobby Lobby). I like it, and mix it with Future to make washes. Very economical.

If you do go the art-store ink route, Higgins dries really, really flat, which detracts form the depth. I hate it, but YMMV.

Dont you remember when Blood Angels were orange?

Terra cotta forever, man. :)

Nuln Oil is fine as a replacement Badab Black wash.

Nuln oil is fantastic, and so is reikland flesh wash!

I think these are the best washes, inks I have ever used.

If you want inks I still use windsor and newton

I use the both the old and new version of GW Washes, and I really like the results …

I switched from Babab Black to Nuln Oil, and didn't notice I difference. I love GW Washes.

Xin

I feel the need to clarify, since it seems my original point is lost, that my problem is not with Badab Black vs. Nuln Oil, which for all I know is the same thing with a new name. It's with "Black Wash" and "Badab Black", which is definitely not even close to the same thing.

If Black Wash was not a wash and was in reality an ink, than I guess that's the problem.

Looks like I'll be looking up Coat D'Arms paints.

The Black Wash is not an ink as they had a seperate ink range, one of which I still have.

Seriously Angry Piper try Coat D'Arms as I had a similar situation.

Why not just buy Artist's Inks, available in any art store?
They work just fine.

Just got my order from Scale Creep Miniatures, and I have to say these inks are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks to all (PhildDe and others) who pointed me in this direction. Coat D'Arms is exactly what I needed.

This is why I love this site.

One thing I notice not many mention – and it applies to ALL "out with the old in with new" washes no matter the brand:

Have you tried multiple layers of (insert replacement wash name here) to get the desired effect you had with the old?

I noticed right away that there were just plain different performance characteristics between Badabb & Nuln, like one needed to adjust our technique now because the new wash does not act the same or give the desired results under the same application method/circumstances.

I've adjusted – but still bought some CDA because I am a paint monkey who likes ALL OPTIONS available.

GW has called three different generations of something a "wash".

The very old Armor Wash and Flesh Wash were Cote D'Arms.

The "miracle in a bottle" line from several years (including Badab Black and Devlan Mud) ago were Vallejo. Their Game Color Washes have exactly the same behavior, though not quite the same color set. They do make a light grey, though, which is neat stuff.

The current set are made by someone else, though i don't recall who.

I have been migrating from GW paints to Wargamea Foundry for quite some time. Their washes are just like the old GW washes.

Say what you want about the new GW paints, but when I have to buy Bolt gun Metal (or whatever it's new name is) AND the silver in order to make something silver, then the manufacturer is missing the point. (Since the silver is a glaze, you can't just paint it right onto the model). If they're going to force me to buy multiple paints to get one color, I may as well go to one if the other lines that's designed for mixing it back to the old acrylics in a tube.

+1 for Foundry Paints

Are the Foundry paints dead flat or a bit satin finish like the Coat d'Arms/original Citadel paints?

I miss Devlan Mud.

But my Army Painter Strong Tone in the dropper bottle is a nice replacement.

Agrax Earthshade sucks mud.

I used to use a lot of the old, old, Chesnut ink, for horses, I cannot find anything in the current range to match it.
Does any other company do a nice, strong, chesnut wash?

John

Coat 'd Arms does a rich (on the thick side) Chestnut Wash.

Here in the US, Scale Creep Miniatures (our TMP's own "Extra Crispy" Mark Severin) carries it, recently bought three bottles. Not sure about in the UK.

link

Ok, I'm slightly confused.

What is the difference between an ink and a wash? I always thought og them as being the same.

Ok, I'm slightly confused.

What is the difference between an ink and a wash? I always thought og them as being the same.

An ink is a liquid that is saturated with pigment or dye.

A wash is a blend of mediums that carry a far less concentrated amount of pigment designed to leave colour only in recessed areas.

A glaze or filter is a blend of mediums containing a low concentration of transparent pigments designed to add a layer of translucent colour to the entire surface.

Inks are often used to create washes and glazes.

I used to use a lot of the old, old, Chesnut ink, for horses, I cannot find anything in the current range to match it.
Does any other company do a nice, strong, chesnut wash?

Have you ever tried Vallejo Smoke John?