"Shapeways 1/350 - Is it just me or...?" Topic

Finally took the plunge and ordered some 1/350 WW1 aircraft. Very pleased with the ones that did arrive. But somewhat surprised to get a succession of emails stating that about half the selected models could not be printed. I realise that the odd design might be borderline for printing, but for there to be a 50% failure rate? Also, not confined to a specific designer.

The ones rejected by Shapeways include:
Hanriot HD1 by colinwe
Halberstadt DII by kampfflieger
FE2b by colinwe

I have PM'ed both designers, but I wonder whether anyone else has successfully ordered these from Shapeways in the past? What is a bit of a bore is if Shapeways (not necessarily the designer) knows that they won't print out, why do they not flag them? It does make a planned build-up of a collection a bit hit and miss – one carefully opts for the relevant aircraft in a particular sector at a particular time, then find out afterwards that you will get X and Y, but not W and Z…

Why do they list them on their site, if they can't be printed?

Seems daft to me, but maybe I'm being too logical.

I had an issue like that with some 1/300 microarmor. I don't think its always the fault of the designer. Apparently the production people have the say on that. The designer told me that its like flipping a coin. The same model can be produced one day and then its decided it can't be the next. He was in the process of trying to fix the design, but couldn't guarantee that the fixes would be acceptable.

From what I've heard, in some cases it depends upon which way they line the print up, when they run it.

You'd think they'd try it the other way, if it doesn't work in one axis, and then keep a record of how best to print it, so it does work.

Again though, perhaps that is too much logic for some to handle.

I'm still trying to get a set of Cod Wars ships – Shapeways says they can't be printed, designer says they were redesigned and are up to specs. Tell me that makes any sense at all?

My understanding of how Shapeways operates is that they have some proprietary for printing out vast numbers of orders together en mass, using a relatively small number of 3D printers. Then they staff take out the individual items. From what I understand that means the white rose that measurs 10x10x5 cm my girlfriend ordered can end up next to your 1/350 Pfalz DIII which measures 2x2x1 cm. Allegedly this provides some sort of economy of scale that keeps prices cheaper because it uses up nearly all the otherwise dead space in the printing media. Everything is alleged to fit together like some sort of 3D Tetris puzzle with very little wastage.

Based on that understanding maybe there were no appropriate places in the print run for your models. Then again, maybe my understanding is off.

I have also heard that they farm the printing out to different printers. One might have no issue printing a model while the next guy thinks it can't be done so he doesn't even try.

I thought the printed in very small bits, in layers, so don't really see how there would be any deadspace.

Of course, if they do print stuff like a 3D puzzle, as mentioned, I can see where that would be an issue.

I suspect Dn Jackson is probably on to the real reason.

Mako is absolutely correct. This is an issue discussed in some detail on Starship Combat News' forums.

If an object prints best on axis X, and it goes into the 'puzzle' upon that axis, all is well. However, to squeeze it into the printing volume most economically, it may be rotated to the Y or Z axis, and the printing software will indicate a higher that acceptable risk of failure. If it does so, it is automatically rejected.

Re-submit the design for printing tomorrow, it may print with no issues, because there's room in the puzzle for it to be on the best orientation.

Early days, I know… but issues like these keep 3D printing on the fringes of the hobby for production work. (As opposed to prototyping.)

You'd think they'd have a system to note in which axis the model prints best, as well as in which it can't be printed, for future reference, so they can process accordingly.

Surely, in the age of computers, this is something easily done.

Hi DBS 303

All the models you mentioned exept the Halb. D.II has been successfully printed before with no problems at all.

Unfortunately Shapeways has changed the printing specs AFTER the models was designed. That

Here is the Hanriot:

And here is the DH-2 which is much more more fragile than the FE2b (did not have a pic of the FE2b but i have it as a very beautiful print).

Do remember to reinforce the weak spots on the model with cyanoacrylate glue by adding a small amount to the wheel axle joints, the undercarriage joints and where the struts join the wings.

I suggest that you contact Shapeways and tell them that these models has been printed before without vices and that you would like to have a print despite the models being designed to the old specs and that you are aware that they are fragile -perhaps include the pics.

As to the Halberstadt D.II do contact Kampfflieger and ask him to update it as it has never printed. He has on earlier occasions promised to fix the model, but has apparently forgotten it.

Also Decapod who roams these forums has made some perfect 1/350 models including the halb CL.II, RE8 and Breguet 14 as well as a Dr.I and a SE5a and they are all to the new specs. If you need a model that is in his 1/44 try contacting him and ask him if he can find the time to convert it to 1/350.

I will also contact Shapeways as i have ordered almost all the models to make sure they printed and i am very unhappy that they change the specs after this quality check. In relation to that: What other models apart from the FE2b, Hanriot and Halb. D.II did not print?

- Svend

Many thanks to all. Kampfflieger was kind enough to respond to my PM over the weekend, stating that he had just uploaded a revised design for the Halberstadt D.II. I have therefore reordered that from Shapeways. So far – fingers crossed – I have not had a reject email…

Svend, I will attempt to reorder, as you advise, the Hanriot and the FE2b. Having checked back, that completes the list of rejected models, though the BE2c (Colinwe's I think?), which I very much wanted, is listed as not available for sale, so presumably also has a problem. Which is a real pity, since the BE2 is arguably one of the most important aircraft of the war, whatever its failings.

Hi DBS303

I have just had some communication back and forth with Colin who makes the FE2b,BE2c as well as other important types such as the Nie 17 and Alb DVa and D.III.

He will hopefully update the design files on a series of important types. I ave sent him a wish list which he will hopefully find time to update during the coming weeks.

I will contact Kampfflieger to see if he can find the time to update other important types such as the Pup, Strutter, Bristol etc.

I will post the progress in the update here.

Just a question: I am really curious as to which models that printed without problems. If you could provide me with the names that would be helpful (i vant ze names, Gottverdammt!).. Thanks :-). Either here or at contact (dot) icog (at) gmail (dot) com..

Svend

Hi all

I got this "non-answer" from Shapeways .

"Unfortunately it can happen that a model got printed once or maybe twice, but not checked properly. This could mean that the model will get rejected the third time, this is of course something we would like to avoid and we are on top of the rejection process as we speak. We are trying to improve this process and your feedback is much appreciated.

Sometimes it also can be that a model is printed before, like the model link you mentioned in your email. We printed this model in March 2012 for the first time and since then a lot of the design rules changed. Therefore we unfortunately had to reject this model this time, because it doesn't meet our design rules.
It can be that we sometimes have to change something to the design rules to improve the print quality.

I understand that it took the designers a long time to design the models and that is frustrated to receive a rejection email after we printed the model. And even put some of the models in a blog post, you would imagine that we can print the model and won't reject it!

It is hard to ensure the quality of the updated model, we never can tell if we are going to change the design rules again. We of course try not to reject a model which got printed before, but there are exceptions.

My apologies that I can't help you much further, and if you have got any other questions you can always contact me about this."

I will try to "one-up" the issue once more with Shapeways and see what happens and at the same time work with the designers.

The ones that have definitely printed OK so far (ie I have received them safely in the post)are:

RE8 (Decapod)
Sopwith Pup (Kampfflieger)
Aviatik C.I (Colinwe)
Albatros D.II (Kampfflieger)
Fokker D.II (Kampfflieger)

All of these printed in the last ten days or so. The only ones to be less than wholly satisfatory were two out of the four Alb D.IIs, where struts had not printed fully and an undercarriage had sheared off. (So, first problem probably a printing weakness, second probably just packaging.)

I also have on order since Saturday, and have not yet had any reject notices, the following:

Halberstadt D.II (redesign by Kampfflieger as discussed above)
Albatros D.III (Colinwe)
Sopwith Strutter (Kampfflieger)
Nieuport 11 (Kampfflieger)

Fingers crossed on all of these!

Ok nice to hear you got many good models.

The Pups are especially beautiful small models

I Have had some weak undercarriages too. I repair them by changing the legs with styrene rods. I also strengthen the struts and landing gear with cyano glue as mentioned.

Also: Fokker D.VII in the new specs is now avaialble. link More to follow.

The Albatros C.III has been updated to the new specs. More will follow.

Kampfflieger has just updated the 1/350 and 1/285 scale Morane AI and Nieuport 11 models to the new specs.

- Svend

Albatros D.III and D.Va available from Decapod! Both has been revised and should now be printable and to the new specs:

link

link

And the Pup is just updated .. now as a six-pack: link