"Major Dundee--what happened to him afterwards?" Topic

So, like a number of you, I watched Major Dundee on TV last night. What do you think his fate was when he retuned to his post? If he returned with his command after he rescued the kids, I think the army would have overlooked his irregularities and put a gold star by his name. He could certainly have gotten a lot of positive media exposure and written a little booklet about his daring rescue of the white children. As is, I think he would be looking at a court of inquiry and a court martial. The army could not ignore his actions and the French certainly weren't going to forget it. I could see him dieing a drunken and bitter old man. What are your thoughts?

He got a Section 8 – which was the whole point of the film.

Aging, drunken officers is what the Regular Army was all about in those days. It was expected of them. There's a great book called "The Old Army" that is full of amusing anecdotes. Like the captain who got drunk, called out his men in the middle of the night and had them fire vollies into the barracks. He went on to command a brigade :)

Major Dundee's little adventure would fit right in.

Very good question 79th!

Really good! I had the same question about Fw Steiner and the end of a cross of iron.

It exist a movie database where you can buy sam peckinpah scripts which give also alternative end and unproduced ends. Maybe it was witten something. For cross of iron was a whole storyline for a alternative end at hand…

Greetings

Scott--I think invading another country on your own accord is a little more serious.

Success was rewarded. Drunkeness accepted. Failure pinned on the dead whenever possible.

No messy hearings that would be allowed to make living officers look bad.

Not sure the Union would have been too concerned at French reaction as clearly the US did not welcome French involvement in Mexico and said as much after the wa-wah.

So a(nother?) brevet at least.

I think the diplomatic flap that would've ensued with the French might've made the difference here, as opposed to some drunken officer having his men shoot up the barracks. The US government was no fan of the French being in Mexico and they were shortly to be gone in any case (1867), so I think maybe Dundee wouldn't have been cashiered, but Major would certainly have been his last promotion and he would no doubt have been sent to "punishment" assignments for the rest of his time in the Army.

I could see him dieing a drunken and bitter old man. What are your thoughts?

He goes to New York and stars in a new film?

The movie ends in April 1865 so Dundee returns right at th end of the Civil War. Given that a sizeable army under Sheridan was sent to Texas soon thereafter with an eye to ejecting the French from Mexico if they didn't go peacably, I don't think there would much fall out for his actions. I think there were actually some skirmishes with the French before they pulled back from the Rio Grande. Potentially, Dundee is put on Sheridan's staff as an adviser/scout, where he would likely tick someone off and end up posted to another dead-end job.

Or else, Custer, who was also in Texas with Sheridan, takes a liking to him and brings him into the 7th Cavalry and a few years later they go for a little trip up the Little Big Horn…

Since the news would be full of his glorious exploits to save the children, he would be a national hero. He also killed a marauding band of Indians which would also look good in the papers. I think he would finish the last months of the war as a jailer then be retired. As for the French/Mexican incident, it would have been reported as "a valiant defensive action against foreign invaders on our border with Mexico…" to go along with Dundee's other gallant exploits. I think the political spin would be to make France the aggressor to bolster public support against France. War-weary Americans would need something to want to enter into another fight. With Dundee's unit containing Confederates, it would be the poster child for co-operation between North and South against a foreign power.

I think the political spin would be to make France the aggressor…

Yes, because this is now April 1865. We are about to get serious with France. Monroe Doctrine blah blah blah
Had this occurred in 1862 when the last thing we needed was a tussle with France, that would be a different story.
Timing!

The Army and the State Dept. would have blamed it all on Richard Harris and the Confederates. Dead men tell no tales so the Rebs are convenient fall guys for this incident.

He migrated to Australia and opened a pub in Melbourne

Becomes a railroad building "boss" of former Union Army vets… Toughs out fights wif' injuns and disgruntled Chinese, Irish and Black slaves (er, "labor"), gets "hammered" by scamming railroad "brass" and lives out his days as a Brevet US Army Brigadier looking for a command on the eve of the Spanish American War…

(When asked to comment about "Dundee's" death in Patterson NJ, of Bright's Disease just *prior* to Santiago and "San Juan Hill"… "Fighting Joe" Wheeler is reported to have said… "WHO?")

S'truth and 'zounds!

Charlie

One of my favorite movies of the period … just saw it again a few days ago …

Great question! Had the same reaction when I watched They Came to Cordura' last night. What happened to Major Thorn-?

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

This is what I got in my reseach – "The screenplay, by Harry Julian Fink, Oscar Saul, and Peckinpah, was loosely based on historical precedents. However, contrary to claims by the production team at the time, it was not actually based on a true story. The film's novelization was written by Richard Wormser. During the Minnesota Dakota War of 1862, Union forces in that state were forced to recruit Confederate prisoners from Texas to make up for their meager numbers in fighting the Indians. Unlike the movie, where there is much animosity between the Union and Confederate troops in Dundee's command, the rebels, called "Galvanized Yankees", fought well and without much complaint. Both Union and Confederate forces also battled Apache, Navajo, and Comanche Indians throughout the war along the U.S.-Mexico border, making the scenario of the movie at least somewhat plausible."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Legion 4: interesting, thanks.

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

Plenty of game scenarios in the history that Legion 4 has related; thanks.

You are most welcome, Gents. Also most of the movie was filmed in Mexico. I was interested where they found all those little villages and such, and the ruins where the French Lancers were raided by Dundee for horses and supplies … I'm always interested in where many movies are filmed … Like another of my favorites, "Kelley's Heroes" was mostly filmed in (the former)Yugoslavia …

Legion 4, did they reuniform them? I imagine they would if for no other reason than the old ones would be badly worn, but perhaps not. Sounds like a scenario idea ofr an uncivil war.

As for doing it, I imagine it beat hell out of being bored out of your tree in a prison camp. Probably ate better to.

Owen

Don't know that for sure if they got new uniforms … but that makes sense. They still may have worn bits and pieces from their CSA uniforms. Many/most Rebels were proud of their linage. And in many cases some CSA troops wore bits and pieces of their civilain clothing as well, regardless … Not being as well supplied as the North in many cases. They may have appeared to have been a bit of a rag-tag bunch somewhat like was seen in the movie … I'd imagine sitting in prison or "shot'n Injuns" … it was an easy choice. The South was generally considered to be a bit racists during the ACW(and afterwards for some time) … So killing off "Injuns" would not have bothered them. Even though some Indians tribes actually fought for the CSA … they had a common enemy. The Union, The Blue Coats … But the killing of women and children which occurred during many Indian raids on white settlers, would have certianly appeared "unchivalrous" to the Southern mind set … Not to mention considered a heinous act to both the CSA and the North …

Not wanting to hijack, becuase this is one of my favorite movies only having seen it maybe 30 or more times. But, I have always wanted to do a diorama of the river crossing scene at the end of the movie. In plastic only. I think the Perry Cav would work well for USA and CSA. Is there anyone who makes what I could use for French Lancers?

Yes they did get new uniforms…or cast off old uniforms but they did not serve in their rebel uniforms. They also got hand me down muskets which were good enough for Indian fighting.

It is erroneous to equate the "civilized" tribes that fought for the south with the "wild" tribes of the west. Throughout the war Texas had to hold back troops to police their Indian frontier although these troops were eventually sent east leaving the frontier open and greatly depopulated by war's end.

The demobilization of the "Galvanized Yankees" would play a key part in the events leading up to the Fetterman Massacre of 1866 as the tribes generally considered the reduction of Union forces arrayed against them as a victory on their part which naturally fostered a boost in their feelings of military superiority rather than as a result of the war back east they knew or cared little about.

Good to know … Thanks for the intel M C … and that is true … The "civilized" tribes that fought with the CSA were not the same as the "wild" tribes further West. And in some cases some tribes hated each other as much as they did the "White Man" at times …

Come on, guys. Who's going to tell? The rebs? The Indians? The French? Non! Non! It could not possibly happen. American gangsters beat Napoleon's finest? (French haughty laugh track).

He finishes the Civil War in Headquarters in Washington where they bury him in some obscure department for all the fuss he made and pay him a big salary and a big pension to shut up.

He and the Senta Berger character get married, move to Minnesota, and raise 5.5 kids and have 2.5 buggys in the barn. They go on yearly trips to Europe. Here he becomes friends with a former foe who served in the French Regiment, fellow by the name of Esterhazy who sells him information the same way he's selling it to the Germans. He later goes back to Minnesota

Mrs. Dundee starts off selling butter and jam from her garden, then moves into real-estate, then catering, and a little clandestine sufferagetting through her fitness salons. Dundee becomes a consultant for various politicians. Their kids go to school and one becomes a rich man, another a poor man, another a beggar and another a chief the fifth becomes a doctor but the sixth, being only half a kid and therefore a half wit and being half A$$ed becomes a lawyer. They are sorry she can't have more because they always wanted an Indian chief in the family.

Dundee lives to ripe old age founding a small factory producing gee-gaws chatchka's and toys to sell at meetings of the Veterans organization, which later his rich man sun will turn into a mega-million company makeing clothing and supplies for re-enactors. His wife also opens a clothing factory making corsets and stays and things for female re-enactors including a very popular line of "Stars and Bars Lingeie" which are very popular in the south for when "Your John comes marching home again."

Child number 5, a daughter who becomes a doctor has a successfull medicine practice out in some Western hell-hole with another female doctor called "Quinn" or "Medicine Woman" till she gets tired of getting paid in chickens, wampum, crippled hogs, and empty promises from the hard-scrabble farmers and eventually bangs up shop and goes back home to take over her mothers business. She expands the line of lingerie and delicate unmentionables under a new retail company called "Tarts-R-Us" and has tremendous success because she's quite a hottie and models her own corsets and um--- playwear. She diversifies, spinning off the factory to a conglomerate that makes oven mitts and starts her own ice-cream shops, again working on her modelling form. The Ice-cream companies with franchise stands all over the place made famous by a large poster of her "en Deshaelle" in a form fitting bustier and the slogan. "If you liked my cups you'll love my banana split!"

She gives her poor man, and beggar man brothers a no-show high pay job, but the thief goes into politics and does quite well for himself. He however goes over to Europe to try and play the giggilo, catches the fancy of a rich Vieneese old maid but is run over by a horse-tram in the Bahnhoffstrasse.

1. He wiped out a group of Apaches that wiped out Company B of the 5rh Cavalry.
2. He retrieved all of the kids.
3. Got his licks in on the French, who shouldn't have been there anyway.

He becomes SENATOR DUNDEE!

The U.S. Army had more than enough officers in 1865 to take on all required tasks. Unless he had someone high ranking who was watching his back I don't see any effort being to keep on a previously disgraced officer who carried with him diplomatic baggage. Dundee is allowed to resign. When the French Minister comes calling Secretary of State Seward can honestly say that Dundee is no longer part of the army, the expedition was not authorized, the Secretary of the Army is looking into the incident and they will get back to him later, which they never do.

The war was over. He was mustered out.

Or…

He was brought to Washington and trained for a space mission where he and two other men landed on a planet ruled by apes.

Probably only semi-relevant, but Major Dundee is a shadow story of a real 1855 adventure into Mexico by 110 Texas Rangers under the command of Captain James H. Callahan. Under the weight of unceasing raids by Apaches and Comanches, Callahan gained permission from the governor to take his ranger battalion across the Rio Grande into Mexico, if necessary, to catch and punish Indian raiders who fled with the stolen horses and taken captives to safe sanctuary in Mexico. In the event, Callahan's rangers were confronted by a line of Mexican soldiers--including lancers--about 15 miles from the border. A hot battle followed, Mexican muskets and lances against Colt revolvers. The outnumbered Texans withdrew to and defended the town of Piedras Negras on the border of Texas where they had entered Mexico. The Rio Grande River was flooding preventing the TExans from swimming their horses back to their own sanctuary in Texas. To slow down the Mexican assault, Callahan ordered the town of Piedras Negras burned down--displacing 2000 Mexican residents. Callahan ferried his men and horses across in the bedlam of the burning town. Callahan was welcomed as hero by the white citizens of Texas,(a county was named after him) regardless of the international incident he'd caused and the $50,000 USD in reparations that the US government paid to Mexico. I've written an historical novel about the whole fascinating affair: A Different Country Entirely. It's on Amazon if you might be interested.

crossing the Atlantic to join the Prusso-German Armies with Sheridan to try to meet for the very first time before their disbandment the French Lancers he claimed to fight 5 years before in his dreams in order to not to lose all credibility and appear as the new Münchhausen and give a little opportunity to Hollywood 100 years later to do a serious movie and not a nonsense fiction one as most Hollywood "historical" movies

Texan Phil McBride, you just sold another copy of your book.