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"3mm Terrain for Napoleonics" Topic


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eldorado06 Aug 2013 9:06 a.m. PST

My goal is to add a 3mm setup for my 8x6 wargame table (Napoleonics). All my terrain is currently 6mm. I can reuse my gaming mat and some of the smaller hills (Terrain Guy stuff) but I am now thinking about the villages/towns, roads, rivers/streams and vegetation and am looking for suggestions. I would rather purchase than take a "do it yourself" approach if there is good stuff to be had.
1) 3mm/2mm Villages/Towns – Looks like the choice here is between Brigade Models and S6 (PicoArmor), Irregular, PaperTerrain and Langton. Total Battle Miniatures (great stuff) has 3mm but for the wrong era. Langton is too expensive for the number I would need and Irregular strike me as a bit small. The PicoArmor stuff looks good. Any comments on the Brigade models or S6? These are just buildings and I would have to build the town or village around them but it looks like a possible starting point.
2) Roads – Only thing I can find is 3mm roads is from PaperTerrain. They look good but I wish they had rivers also to keep some continuity to the overall look. Any other suggestions?
3) Rivers/Streams – I can not find anything. Suggestions?
4) General vegetation – This I can mostly work out for myself using general scenics but would be glad to hear about anything that is tiny that would fit the bill.

If I do build my own towns and scenics I would want bases to set these on. Any ideas for a material than I can cut into irregular shapes, is very thin and relatively hard?

Thanks for any input.

boy wundyr x06 Aug 2013 9:43 a.m. PST

I have most of the stuff you've listed, except for Langton and PaperTerrain. If you're doing large battles in 3mm, the Irregular 2mm pieces will do as backdrop villages etc., where it isn't important that each building actually represent what it looks like; otherwise they're noticeably smaller than 3mm. Brigade is closer, but wouldn't work on the same table (or at least beside) as Simply 6 stuff.

Simply 6 is awesome, I've never had to do any prep work on them other than wash them – no pitting, broken bits, etc. Very nice to paint as well. The only catch is it's a dead line, so what you see is all you're going to get. Brigade at least is growing rapidly (super-rapidly!).

There's also Bay Area Yards, who do 1/600 ACW stuff; some of it might work for Napoleonics. It would work ok with S6. One final option, other than scratchbuilding, are the Monopoly buildings Picoarmor offers.

Gamecraft Miniatures does laser-cut felt roads and streams for 6mm, the pieces would work for 3mm too. If you want something fancier, it'll probably have to be scratchbuilt.

For general vegetation, Oddzial Osmy has several packs of trees; they're nice. For bigger perspective battles though, you could use green scrubbing pad on cork board, cut into forest-like shapes.

link

I've done a fair bit of scratchbuilding for 2mm and 3mm, some pics are on my blog, including my 2mm forests and 3mm bamboo jungles (the principle would work for European forests too).

link

twothreesixmm.blogspot.ca

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Aug 2013 11:05 a.m. PST

Do consider the peter Pig ACW farm. It is for 3mm games.

Range 7

all the best

martin

eldorado06 Aug 2013 4:03 p.m. PST

BWX… very interesting and useful comments. From what you say I think I would get the Simply 6 for sure if it was not for the "dead line" thing. Would it be possible for you to measure a few of the Brigade and Simply 6 items you have and let me know the height, width and length just so I can get a better idea of what they may look like on the table (and grouped together in towns).

I like some of the stuff at your blog and I will certainly give it a try and will also take a look at some of the other companies you mentioned. Thanks

Martin… I'll also go and take a look at the ACW form.

boy wundyr x06 Aug 2013 10:20 p.m. PST

Sure, I'm on stay-cation at the moment, but give me a couple of days and I'll dig up some comparable items (churches and individual houses) and get some measurements and photos. I don't have any of the Brigade stuff prepped, much less painted, but the photos will give some idea of how they look compared to S6. Just need to find where I put the Brigade stuff for safe-keeping.

I also forgot to mention that Irregular's bridges work ok in 3mm, other than I think one S6 piece, there isn't much of that around.

I also do scratchbuilding with wooden blocks from my local big box craft store, and other doodads. One thing I've been working on for my 3mm Vietnam project is a section of street in Hue, and that's been my approach.

eldorado07 Aug 2013 9:46 a.m. PST

Thanks very much. No hurry, whenever you get the time. I think that will really help with my decision process. I generally have a picture in my head how I want this to look but it is always hard judging things when you can't see them in person.

Thanks for the heads-up on bridges. I did find some 1/2" and 1" rivers yesterday at S&A Scenics which I think puts me one step closer.

John Siewenie Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Aug 2013 5:49 a.m. PST

Gentlemen,

Steel_on_Sand blog has comparisons to S6, Irregular, Langdon, and Monopoly houses….quite comprehensive.

link

We planning to us the Brigade Models in modular blocks. We hope to get some pictures up soon as well.

Thanks,
John
picoarmor.com

eldorado08 Aug 2013 8:21 a.m. PST

And what a wonderful blog post that is. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks John

"modular blocks"… that sounds interesting. I very much look forward to those pictures.

Also John I believe you are in the U.S. and I have noted that you carry many of the items I would require for 2 or 3 mm terrain. However I also just noticed some of the places I was considering for rivers and roads are from the U.K. and have some significant shipping charges. Anything you might be able to suggest for roads and rivers in that scale in North America? Thanks

John Siewenie Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Aug 2013 11:18 a.m. PST

Mr Eldorado,

I have two suggestions. This blog is from Bish, and has stunning terrain. The hex style is featured for much of it, but if you click on the slide show, you will see another type.

tinytanks3mm.blogspot.com.au

Further, there has been much discussion on the 3mm Yahoo Groups….

link

link

I hope these help…..

John
picoarmor.com

John Siewenie Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Aug 2013 12:44 p.m. PST

….and to answer your question more directly…..

I have been using yarn and some ribbon from my girls at Joann Fabrics for much of it.

I have a few pictures of that in this photo folder in the 3mm Yahoo Group-

link

Let me know if you can't see them…

John
picoarmor.com

Macunaima08 Aug 2013 4:08 p.m. PST

I just got a bunch of Monopoly City buildings in the mail, bought off of Boardgame Geek's market. I'd seen the wonderful city pieces produced by Fen Edge Wargaming for his dieselpunk air combat games and I wanted something similar for my 3mm sci-fi set up. Turns out that Warren Colegrave was selling his copy of the Monopoly City on the 'Geek for a very reasonable price. Mr. Colgrave lives in Canada, but he very politely agreed to sell me only the building pieces and to send them to me in a cushioned envelope in order to avoid customs.

Two weeks later they arrived in Brazil and I got started painting.

The pieces from Monopoly City are all different scales and sizes, but they work well together and with old-style Monopoly houses and hotels, as well as the Microform white metal buildings in 1/900 scale that Ana Paula gave me for Christmas 2010.

I've mounted them all on plasticard and the resulting blocks can be combined in any number of different ways to make cities, towns and even villages.

Here are some quick photos of everything I've built so far, all laid out along with some roads. The roads have not been pinned down to the table, as they should be, so they look a little sloppy. Also sloppy is the camera work, which is certainly not as crisp as it could be. I plan to take some more, better pictures, soon.

These buildings have been put together over the past 7 years, a bit at a time (excpet for the newly acquired Monopoly City pieces which were all done in a week). In spite of the varying scales and the fact that some of the buildings have windows painted on while others are more abstract, everything hangs together quite well, I think.

picture

The first shot shows Picoburg before I laid down the roads, suburbs and airport. In the upper left- and lower right-hand corners, you can see the industrial districts that are made completely of MC pieces, as are the downtown highrises and the apartment complexes on the edge of town.

To the left is Olde Towne, the historical city center, with cobbled streets, the cathedral and a medieval city block made out of PicoArmor's Monopoly buildings. The low-rise housing complexes are simple wooden blocks covered in cardboard and gussied up with balsa bits and plasticard. You can also see some Microform buildings in the block just south of the business district.

picture

Here's a shot of the city from the suburbs and surrounding farmland. The airport and roads have also gone int. Most of these village pieces are made out of a combination of Monopoly buildings: some PicoArmor and some wooden pieces picked up on Ebay. The airport is scratchbuilt.

Roads are painted and textured artist's canvas. They should be pinned down and look better when they are. Here, they're just thrown down and it shows.

picture

And finally here's an aerial shot of most of the city, some farms and a suburb.

I really must appologize for the crap quality of these photos!

The next project is Picoburg Federal Univerity (home of the "fighting Pixels").

On my "to buy" list now are Brigade Games wonderful 1/900 (2mm) pieces (which can be seen here at PicoArmor). I plan to put these down on their own blocks, so that they can be used seperately from the pieces shown here. I think they'll look just fine together, however.

I hope this shows you that a wide variety of materials can be used, almost indiscriminantly and without much care for "proper" scale. Here we have pieces that go from 1/700 to 1/1200, but the overall effect is quite acceptable. Of course, some care must be taken when composing blocks and even moreso when putting blocks together in cities, but still…

So the answer to the question of "What buildings should I buy?" is "All of them". You should strive to have a wide variety of pieces available which you can mix and match as the mood takes you (or as period demands).

The best, most beautiful pico terrain pieces out there are by Angel Barracks (3mm English early 20th century town) and Rod Langton (about 1.5mm for Napoleonics). AB's village will set you back 30 quid, however, while Langton's town hall alone costs five pounds!

The entire MC set cost me 25 CDN (and that includes shipping). It came with 6 skyscrapes, 8 office buildings, 8 high-rise apartment blocks, 16 houses, 3 prisons, 3 nuke reactors, 3 garbage dumps, 3 football stadiums, 16 small factories, 3 waste treatment plants and 3 windmills.

There's also Irregular Miniatures 2mm stuff (which is closer to 1/1200 scale, actually). I love IM and they will always have a fond spot in my heart for introducing picoscale gaming to me. I have to admit, however, that their terrain is simply not up to the current standard, however. Nor does it mix very well with the other lines noted above.

Finally, if you want to go with some 3mm American Civil War stuff, there's the old Simply 6 line, now defunct, but sold by Pico Armor and Peter Pig's 3mm Hammerin' Iron line, which I hear is quite good.

I hope this gives prospective 3mm players an idea of what's available and what can be done. Meanwhile, you can take a look at Steel On Sand's wonderful comparison shots of some popular 3mm terrain lines. When one uses all these pieces together, en mass, the difference between 1/1200 and 1/600 really doesn't show. If you're only going to be using a few buildings, however, it's probably better to make these all one line or a couple of easily matched lines.

("Lead Doesn't Bleed" blog has this report with all the appropriate hotlinks: link

forwardmarchstudios13 Aug 2013 11:19 a.m. PST

Hi there, I've got some thoughts.

Before you make any decisions what I would reccommend is to get out some paper and a pen and do some number crunching to determine your scale and how big the buildings should actually be footprint-wise. You may discover that your 6mm buildings are actually more correct for your scale than 3mm might be. 2mm might also work well, but be aware that 2mm buildings may look small next to the 3mm figs. Then again buildings are almost always too small for the figs they go with.

Roads are one of the trickiest things to do in 3mm. You don't want a lip or anything that distracts from the models. The only good way I've found is to put them directly onto the mat/board/litko bases.

I'll be back with some more but I have to get back to work, haha…

eldorado14 Aug 2013 9:36 a.m. PST

fmstudios, you make some good points regarding scale. I have approached the problem from a few angles to date and have still not hit the exact formula that I want. My goal, as basic and obvious as it seems, also seems to be a bit elusive. The goal is to be able to fight any large scale Napoleonic battle in which real maneuver can occur while attempting to keep a massed look on reasonably realistic representation of the environment (major towns, features, terrain, etc.). The terrain cannot be static given those requirements even though I absolutely love the look of some of the static or semi-modular set-ups I have seen. Keeping exact scale is not as important to me as the overall ability to maneuver and represent a generally accurate layout of Wagram, Eylau and dare I say Borodino or Leipzig. My initial efforts have been in 6mm and these started before my above stated goals had been firmly implanted in my head. I like the 6mm set-up I currently have and can have decent battles on it but it does not satisfy the above criteria scale wise. Using my current 6mm figures, buildings roads and rivers, etc. I can't get to where I want to be on a 8x6 table (at least my vision of them based on historical layouts). 3mm seems the way to go but making a good looking dynamic environment is proving a bit of a challenge compared to 6mm.

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