"New Wave Games" Topic

This is the email I sent to New Wave this morning:

Dear Newwave:

I'm trying a new strategy in my ongoing attempt to resolve my backorder of $54.55 USD (order #xxxxx, last name Gaddis) that your company has owed me since June 4, 2002. From now on, every communication I make with your company will be shared on the community forums of [TMP] The Miniatures Page (http://theminiaturespage.com/).

For well over a year I have been more patient and understanding of your company's business practices than you could hope any customer could be. I have had many clear, concise, polite emails ignored outright. Each time I do manage to make contact, I am told that everything looks good and I will hear back "tomorrow." I have never heard back "tomorrow."

I will continue to email you as often as I can until my backorder is settled. I will post every communication to the Miniatures Page in order to shine a light on your business practices and engage the community. I believe that you are aware of the discussion of your company at TMP. You should also be aware that by failing to fill my backorder for well over two years, you have created a new champion for that discussion in me. My aim is to educate potential customers and join with existing customers who share my situation. Though there are plenty of people unhappy with your company, I'm noticing that the TMP forums have been quiet since July of this year. Until my order is settled, I assure you the thread I start at TMP will be active. I will investigate every option at my disposal and I have no hesitation to invest more in it than the value of what is owed me.

In our latest exchange, on July 22 of this year, I got the following letter from Rick.

Ryder,

I currently have the following held for you:

PIP31013 Cygnar Warcaster, Allister Caine $8.99 USD $7.19 USD
DAG1009 Forsaken Sister of Compassion (1) $5.99 USD $4.79

We should not have any problem getting the rest. The only items that I am unsure about are:

IK31907 Oil Drums & Jerry Cans (4) $11.95 USD $8.37 USD
IK31903 Sandbags & Ammo Dumps $11.95 USD $8.37

Please feel free to email me at TMP link if you have any questions or comments.

Thank You

Rick

New Wave

I replied the same day:

Rick,

Great, thanks for the help with this. I went to the site to find some possible alternates for the VOID terrain and saw that you have the new Cobalt-2 figs, which I've been waiting for anyway. How about we exchange the Void for these:

COBC6 Cobalt-2 Desiderius (1) (New) $3.15 USD
COBC8 Cobalt-2 Deiphonius & Cherobs (3) (New) $8.10 USD
PIP31002 Cygnar Mechanik & Goblin Bodger $6.99 USD $5.59

This would make the new total $54.38 USD still just under $54.55 USD How does this sound?

--Ryder

I need to point out the reason I chose the Cobalt figs was that the New Wave website had just announced that these Cobalt figs had arrived THE DAY BEFORE (JULY 21), and so there was no excuse for ANY figure on my list. EVERY figure was either being

a) held for me

b) approved by Rick "We should not have any problem getting the rest"

c) announced as having arrived the day before

Though it seemed at the time my order would finally be filled, all communication with Rick stopped at that time. My followup emails, on 7/31 and 8/15 were both ignored. On September 1 I got a response saying,

Dear Sir,

I am sorry to say Rick has been out for 2 weeks. He had to leave the state with a family emergency and is still not back. I will speak to shipping tomorrow and look in the products that Rick had held out at his desk. Please email me a phone number so I may speak to you if need be. I will be in at 10am tomorrow.

Thanks,

Lisa

I emailed a phone number to Lisa but never heard back. I've gotten no response to my follow-up emails on 9/19 or 10/21. I should point out here that though Rick had been gone for two weeks, there was nearly a month between July 22 and August 18 (when he was called away) during which he could have filled my order or at least returned my emails.

To fill my order, here is my list of figures:

Dark Age

DAG1009 Forsaken Sister of Compassion (1) $5.99 USD $4.79

Warmachine

PIP31013 Cygnar Warcaster, Allister Caine $8.99 USD $7.19 USD
PIP32006 Protectorate Choir Acolytes (2 pack) $7.99 USD $6.39 USD
PIP34003 Cryx Scrap Thrall (3 pack) $7.99 USD $6.39 USD
PIP34009 Cryx Mechanithrall Leader & Trooper $7.99 USD $6.39 USD
PIP34021 Cryx Warcaster, Warwitch Deneghra (New) $7.99 USD $6.39 USD
PIP31002 Cygnar Mechanik & Goblin Bodger $6.99 USD $5.59

Cobalt2

COBC6 Cobalt-2 Desiderius (1) (New) $3.15 USD
COBC8 Cobalt-2 Deiphonius & Cherobs (3) (New) $8.10

total:54.38

If any of the above figures cannot be obtained, I would like a refund for that portion of the order. I have no alternates. I can be reached by phone at xxx-xxx-xxxx, or during the day Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays at xxx-xxx-xxxx. I remain understanding but I am no longer patient. My order has been neglected for well over two years, which, in addition to being rude beyond anything I have experienced with any other mail order company, is, cut and dry, illegal.

In closing, I want to point out that although I still feel that your company's present treatment of me is intolerable, I've actually noticed some improvement from how it was when I first placed the order. The tone and promises of action in your last few emails (as hollow as those promises have proven to be so far), actually leave room for optimism that we can still work this out peaceably. I want to thank you for that small bit of change in the right direction. This is your chance to show our community a new face to New Wave games. Respond to this email and settle this.

perhaps "New Wave" deserves its own message board versus being within Consumer Affairs?

Ryder, go straigth to you credit card company instead to get your money back. Like everybody else I've had my share of trouble with e-bay, and this is the way to deal with them.

Wow a "New Wave" and a "No Pictures on Website" thread. Just like old times.

What's that saying about floggings and dead horses?

New Wave thrives on folks who are willing to take any chance to save 10% or more on the retail price of what they want. Many gamble and roll the dice and wind up losing some or all of their money instead of getting the great deal they thought they were getting.

Save yourself all that heartache and order from someone reputable. There are plenty of good ecommerce sites out there and even if you have to pay a few pennies more in the end you wind up way ahead with the toys you want delivered in a timely manner.

Dave

CROOKS through and through! They deserve to burn in a very SPECIAL Hot Place.

If this order was charged back in 2002 there's probably no way to follow up on it through the credit-card company.

I don’t think threatening them with exposure on TMP will get you anywhere – why would they care what we think? They have been doing this for a long time and the business bureau in their state has reports on them, the credit card companies must be aware of them and if a few locals took them to small claims court then the legal system would also have records of their abuses. Threatening them with exposure here will not help the cause but good luck to you.

PJ

Publicly available information:

NEW WAVE GAMES
stacyb911@aol.com
efreet@MINDSPRING.COM
chris@brucehenry.com
770-753-0382

They are located up Highway 9 in a small business complex on the left. First Row last unit on the right if I recall.
You might be able to file a complaint with the city.

Alpharetta City Hall-Main
Phone: (678) 297-6000
D. C. Aiken
City Council, Post 6
Phone: (770) 667-6219
E-mail: DCAiken@alpharetta.ga.us

File a complaint with the BBB too:
link

Make sure you contact the US Postal Service and file your mail fraud complaint too.

Send me your address. I'll have some of those Warmachine
figs out to you with tomorrow's mail - on me. If New Wave is going to continue to drop the ball, I have no qualms stepping in to show how it should be done.

If you ever get a refund, all I ask is that you consider
spending a bit of it in my direction :)

--

Gregg - Strange Cargo Games

strangecargogames.com

Strange Cargo- You ROCK!

Great looking age-of-sail ships by the way. ^_-

Cheers!

Indeed... 3 cheers for Strange Cargo!

Hip hip Hurrah!

Hip hip Hurrah!

Hip hip Hurrah!

There is an advantage to raising the New Wave specter regularly - there are always new members joining TMP, and if they see a thread like this one before getting burned...

Told ya there were plenty of good Ecommerce sites out there ;-) Cheers to Strange Cargo!!!

Dave

I have a strange New Wave tale: I ordered some figures from NWMO in their guise as CMON. They all shipped in one blister. This is strange since the seal looked factory and they were mostly -- but not all -- Corvus Belli. The not-so-strange part (for New Wave) was that one mini wasn't in the blister. Here's the really strange part of my tale: I emailed them about it and they returned my email. They then sent the missing mini like they said they would -- within days. Amazing!

You might also wish to contact the State Attorney General'S office in Georgia.

Ken

Although they are affiliated, I think that CMON and NW are separate entities.

In any case, for those thinking of EVER doing business with these people be sure to read the Better Business Bureau reports:

BBB Reliability Report

New Wave Enterprise
4920 Highway 9 PMB #223
Alpharetta, GA 30004

General Information

Principal : Ms. Stacy Bearden
Phone Number: (770) 753-0606
Fax Number: (770) 753-0059
Membership Status: No
Type-of-Business Classification: Product Sales - General

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

Nature of Business

This company offers mail order sales of products.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaint(s).
Complaints filed with the BBB have primarily alleged non-delivery of products ordered from the company's web site and inability to obtain refunds and/or credit. The company has responded to some, but not all, customer complaints forwarded by BBB to the firm's attention. In cases where the firm has responded to the BBB regarding customer matters, they have indicated that adjustments have been offered to the complainants. In other instances, BBB complaint correspondence directed to the subject firm's attention has not received the courtesy of responses and are classified as unanswered in Bureau file records.

When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 36 Months: 162
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 42

Complaints Concerned
Sales Issues: 6
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 6

Delivery Issues: 124
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 24; Company did not respond: 100

Refund or Exchange Issues: 20
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 4; Company did not respond: 16

Contract Issues: 2
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 2

Customer Service Issues: 7
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 3; Company did not respond: 4

Credit or Billing Issues: 3
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 2; Company did not respond: 1

Additional Information

Additional Doing-Business-As Names: New Wave Conventions
New Wave Entertainment
Additional Phone Numbers: 770-753-0059 Fax

Report as of 10/28/2004
Copyright 2004 Better Business Bureau

As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not endorse any product, service or company. BBB reports generally cover a three-year reporting period, and are provided solely to assist you in exercising your own best judgment. Information contained herein is believed reliable but not guaranteed as to accuracy. Reports are subject to change at any time.

The Better Business Bureau reports on members and non-members. Membership in the BBB is voluntary, and members must meet and maintain BBB standards. If a company is a member of this BBB, it is stated in this report.

Though problems with New Wave have been legion I've never had a problem with CMON. They are affiliated but they are not the same.

Ditto. I have ordered from CMON and never had any problems. I don't know what affiliation they might have, but they handle the transactions differently (for one thing they do not charge you for backorders until the fig has finally arrived and they ship it).

I think New Wave was first and that was run by Dave. Then CMON the miniature painting website was created by him and ChernAnn who did most of the programming. By and by, as that site became increasingly popular, painting contests started coming into vogue and Chern - seperate from New Wave offered his own retail environment for exclusives that would be offered to painters then displayed on CMON. Same two guys but the retail ends are totally seperate. CMON the retailer offers, last time I checked, less than 20 different items but has evolved somewhat from it's origins and also offers the CMON annuals which are great btw.

heh... Ironically New Wave seems to have only 20 different items on hand at any given time too given their lousy fulfilment rates!

I haven't heard anything new about them in a long time though. Is it because no one orders anymore or have they cleaned up their act? I noticed the complaint hails back to 2002.

No, they are still a problem. I read about people getting suckered on a weekly or monthly basis by them on this and many other forums (the minipainter Yahoo!Group, for one).

Later,
Markus

Here's a hint: STOP ORDERING FROM NEW WAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, this is a much bigger response than I imagined. Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

The BBB was the first place I went, still in the summer of 2002. Having been ignored two months and having gotten nothing in the mail, I remember thinking, "this is America. This kind of thing doesn't go on in America!" I've gotten a lot smarter in the intervening two years.

If I don't get a response to my letter I will write the State Attorney General'S office and City Hall. Thanks Ken and Cloudcaptain.

Thanks Cloudcaptain for those other emails to try too. If I don't hear back from this letter, my immediate next step will be to send emails to those addresses, posting a copy to this thread.

PJ, I'm not threatening anyone. I'm doing this, not threatening it, and I'm not attempting to strongarm New Wave. I'm not ranting or cursing, I'm making my experience public and keeping this discussion alive. I continue to appeal to New Wave's better nature.

Greg, I echo Black Lightning and Cloudcaptain -- that's awesome. I'm a little shocked, even. I'll take you up on the offer, but I'll make a small order along with it and pay for shipping. Wow, thank you!

Oh, and sorry about the bad formatting on the letter. It took out a lot of the hard returns, and I'm not sure how to indent quotes. So the lists and quoted emails are a little of a mess.

Thanks again everyone, I'll follow up soon.

The story with the 'family emergency' is an old one, they told me on three separate occasions spread over almost a year that the same person had just died.

They may belong to an ethnic background that honors their dead for a very long time, we may have some sort of reanimation going on here, or the same person may be having a whole series of near-death experiences, but frankly, I think it's just a lie.

Almost four years after the still unresolved order, they only owe me about twenty-some-odd dollars in miniatures, I was able to sort of recoup/substitute the rest via a long series of persistent emails and phone calls, but I agree, this needs to be brought up every now and again, just to warn new members that if they are ordering from NEW Wave, they are doing so at VERY MUCH THEIR OWN RISK!

Use the snazzy site as a reference, and to look at pretty pictures, then go elsewhere to buy.

Cloudcaptain - I removed the address from your post, as I'm informed it now belongs to a private individual not associated with New Wave.

"The story with the 'family emergency' is an old one, they told me on three separate occasions spread over almost a year that the same person had just died."

They seem to have an exceptionally large number of packages that are shipped but "get lost in the mail." They need to put a trace on them to determine what happened. That was the excuse I got on my order, and I've read a number of posters here that got the same story.

I would also encourage you to file a mail fraud complaint with the U.S. Postal Service if New Wave has been using them as their shipper. You might also consider filing a complaint with the FBI Internet Fraud Complaint Center:

www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

To be honest, the feds would really prefer to spend time going after bigger fish than New Wave. However, if they receive enough complaints about a particular person or company and an obvious pattern is being established, they may take action. Given this, I would encourage anyone that has been ripped off to file complaints with the USPS and the FBI IFCC.

The state and local authorities are your best bet in actually getting law enforcement action against New Wave. Again, the more people that report being ripped off, the better chance there is of action being taken if a 'pattern' of illegal activity can be established.

Georgia State Attorney General:

state.ga.us/ago

Alpharetta Police Dept.:

link

The only way to get New Wave either shut down or made to do business in a legal manner is to put the pressure on them through enforcement agencies. They are well aware that the 'nickel and dime' manner that they use to rip people off isn't likely to get them hauled into their local small claims court and is just small-time enough to let them slide under the radar on a transaction-by-transaction basis when it comes to getting the attention of law enforcement.

Given this, I stress the importance of reporting this type of illegal activity by anyone that has been victimize by New Wave. $20 USD-$50 worth of undelivered merchandise might not get the authority's attention in a single incident. If 100+ people report the same problem with one person or company, it will get their attention.

Hello everybody!

I'm new here and would like to thank everybody for this thread. I was looking to buy some Void miniatures and was thinking to order them to New Wave Games. Now I know I won't buy anything from them. Thanks for saving my money.

By the way do you know of any good online store that sells Void miniatures? Thewarstore.com no longer has Void miniatures and from another thread I think I won't order from Battleline Hobby either. Any idea?

Thanks everybody again.

Why not just put a sign up on TMP with a basic report of each person's problems with the company? Something like: TMP Consumer Warning: New Wave, etc.

I realize that TMP would rather not take sides in the issue, but if everyone provides affadavits of their experiences in a factual manner, it might alleviate people having to continually remake their posts?

Thanks to everyone who's taking an interest in this. I will post another letter here soon. Thanks also to the editor for cleaning up my original post.

recrispi01:
I can recommend Dark Basement Miniatures for VOID.
basementminis.com
I'm not sure but I believe he's a one-man operation, and he's all about customer care. Also, he charges actual shipping, and what's more if you want him to he will even take the minis out of the blisters and ship them in a padded envelope to keep shipping to a bare minimum.

I second dark basement. One time, i bought some minis and they were out of stock. So, instead of waiting for a re-stock, he sent me the models out of his collection. Very great business.

This morning I sent this letter to the three email addresses that cloudcaptain provided above. Thanks again, cloudcaptain.
stacyb911@aol.com
efreet@MINDSPRING.COM
chris@brucehenry.com

Dear Sir or Madam:

I'm writing this letter to draw your attention to a problem I'm having with your company, New Wave games. I am owed $54.55. The order number is xxxxx, last name Gaddis. The order was placed June 2, 2002.

For over two years I have been politely insisting that my order be filled, and have provided numerous lists of alternate merchandise. Every time I manage to make contact with New Wave staff and everything seems like it will be resolved, communication dries up and my follow up emails are ignored. In July of this year I was told that everything was in order, that part of my order was literally in a box and being readied. Soon after that, true to the larger trend, all of my follow-up emails were ignored. The treatment I have received is not only rude, it's illegal.

I'm calling on you to step in and resolve the problem. I have maintained throughout this that I'm patient and understanding, but after two years of waiting with absolutely no action, explanation or apology on the part of your company, my patience is exhausted.

New Wave Games owes me $54.55. I will accept payment in product from the list provided earlier. If you need this list again, I will be happy to provide it. For any part of the list that cannot be filled I want a refund. This needs to happen immediately.

All of my correspondence with New Waves Games is posted to The Miniatures Page consumer affairs message boards, and can be viewed here:
TMP link
Because I have been ignored, I am sharing the facts of my experience with your company with the games community. I'm not interested in tossing around verbal abuse. I remain polite and will try to be understanding. I'm interested in working this out in a mutually agreeable way. This is an opportunity for you to show a new face to the community. I expect to hear from you and resolve this. Again, I'm calling on you to step in and make it happen.

I'd also like to tell as many people as possible how impressed I am with Strange Cargo Games. I took Gregg up on his offer and put in a small order of my own with it. The stuff arrived Monday morning.

Let me just say this: Strang Cargo sent me a sizable percentage of my New Wave order absolutely free. This is an unabashed commercial endorsement I'm making here, but since I started this thread in part to shed some light on how one company does business, it's appropriate to show how another company does it.

I think Gregg at Strange Cargo has raised the bar in caring about his customer base, and I hope his point is well taken.

Here's the site:
strangecargogames.com
You should go look.

Glad that it arrived and thanks for the plug : )
--
Gregg – Strange Cargo Games – strangecargogames.com

Even though I've heard lots of bad things about New Wave I personally have nothing but good things to say about them. I've ordered several times (mainly iKore stuff) and it's always gotten to me within a week. One time I was only ordering 1 blister and almost finished submitting my order but didn't because when it was time to confirm my order I realized that the shipping cost was more than the blister itself. A few hours later I got a call from them asking if I had a problem with the ordering process, since I guess they saw my incomplete order. I explained my dilemma and they offered to add 40 cents to the cost of the blister for shipping and process the order! Sure enough, a few days later the single blister showed up. Seeing all these complaints always makes me think twice about ordering from them, but many times I do it anyway and am very happy with the result. I agree though, if you guys are getting screwed like this then that's pretty bleep'd up.

Here is some followup from the letter I sent out on Nov. 4.
That same day, I received the following from the address stacyb911@aol.com. The sender did not identify himself/herself.

quote:

You would need to email newwave for this. The email address is info@newwavegames.com. This is a
private email please forward your concerns to them.

/end quote

Again that same day I responded with this letter:
begin quote:
My polite requests to have this matter resolved have been repeatedly ignored at both
info@newwavegames.com and rick@newwavegames.com. That's what I'm telling you: no one answers at
those addresses. I have been waiting for my order for over two years. I'm asking you to step in
and make something happen. Perhaps you could contact whoever should be doing this sort of thing
and make sure they respond to and take care of my order. Thanks in advance for anticipated help,
it's greatly appreciated.

end quote

I have not heard back from stacyb911@aol.com. I have still not received any response to any of my other letters.

Although it may be a few days between posts, I have no intention of letting up in my persuit of the $54.55 USD worth of merchandise which New Wave owes me.

To livewirerc and others who have dealings with New Wave or are considering dealing with them, I will simply suggest that use the message board search here on TMP for "New Wave" and learn what you can.

You might look into contacting David Doust through his eBay account. I don't have it off the top of my head, but it is somewhere here in the Consumer Affairs forum.

Good luck. You are going to need it to get money from New Wave.

man, i wish i had read this before placing my order on 10/17.
ordered that transport case for my minis.
been "ready to ship" since then. Sent 4 emails, and called twice(voicemail full of course)

going to call my Cc company today to try and cancel that

heh, got a call from newwave today (i didnt take it, they left amesage with my sister)
tehy say its ready to ship, and if i want a credi instead to email them (yeah right)
how odd that they call me, rather then send an email response back. seeing as how i requested an email response rather then a call

On Saturday, November 13 I sent the following letter to stacyb911@aol.com:

I am still waiting for a response to my previous letter. I learned from members of The Miniatures
Page that you are the principal of New Wave games, and that this email address is registered as a
New Wave email address and thus is publically traded information. I am putting the responsibility
with you to ensure that your company complies with the law and either fills my order or provides a
prompt and full refund. I require that you get back to me. As I have told you, the email address
you provided me, info@newwavegames.com, does not return my emails, and thus that has proved
unhelpful. I require assistance. I require that I am given what I am owed. If this means that
you need to take your time to make it happen, that is what's required of you. Again, the order
number is 33996. Thank you in advance for antipacipated help in resolving this.

On Monday, November 15, I received the following reply:

As I have told you this is a private email. I have turned this into AOL. They have put your
address on a block. Please do not continue to email this address.

Also on November 13, I sent this letter to New Wave (info@newwavegames.com and rick@newwwavegames.com):

I am writing once again to restate my intention to collect on the $54.55 USD worth of merchandise that
your company has owed me since June of 2002. I have been waiting for over two years. I have been
repeatedly shown disrespect in the way my polite, patient emails are ignored. I have never
received an apology for why it has taken two years for your company to resolve my order.

Last week I received an email from stacyb911@aol.com. I am assuming that this is Stacy Bearden,
New Waves principal. She told me I should forward my concerns to you. I repeatedly send my
concerns to this address: that my order from two years ago has yet to be filled.

When you return this email, I will work with you on this, and I will remain polite, but I will not
accept being continually ignored. Return this email pledging your intention to fill this order or
provide a full refund, and then make it happen.

I have still gotten no response from either of those addresses, even though I was specifically directed to info@newwavegames.com by Stacy Bearden. See the text of her message above in my post on November 13.

Here is an email i recived on 11/16 ( got it after i got home from work, was after the phonecall i missed )

New Wave Games to me

I am sorry I missed you by phone. Please let me know if you would like me
to send the bag or if you would like a refund. saboldesigns.net
this is a link to the manufacture which you can see has been out for many
weeks. We are getting them from a distributor that has to mail them across
country so it is taking a little longer to get them. I am sorry for the
delay.We do have it in stock now so please let me know if you want the bag
or not.

Thanks,
Lisa

my reply: i wanted the refund of course. that responce was sent on 11/16, no furhter response since that time, no refund.
semiofftopic: anyone recommend a place to pick up a miniature transport bag that i actually have a chance of reciving?

pablofiasco:

Is there any further developement? Have you got a refund?

As for my own case, I'm gearing up for the next steps. I've just written a letter to New Wave which I plan to send snail mail. I'll be posting the body of that letter here when I have confirmed delivery.

Update:
On Nov 30 i recived an automated email from Ups with a tracking number, scheduled delivery date 12/2
12/2 the pacakge arrived, and it actaully did contain the item i had ordered (item Ata1001, army transport case)
I have recived no futher emails from newwave at all excpet for the one on 11/16. No refund was ever sent. However since i did recive my order i guess thats ok.
I do not plan on doing future busniess with newwave and have warned sevral people in my area about them as well.

I ordered some Junkers minis from NW about a month ago, but I've only gotten one blister. What the *@#?$

Silly, silly, Son of Sidon!