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"Nuclear War in the West: Seven Days to the River Rhine " Topic


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2,117 hits since 12 Jul 2013
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Comments or corrections?

Tango0112 Jul 2013 9:08 p.m. PST

"As the Cold War intensified by the end of the 1950s, both sides because entrenched and battle lines became drawn across continents. Fortunately, through limited diplomacy these battle lines were more so ideological with both sides formulating extensive battle plans for the event of war with the other. These battle plans would be theorized, revised and rehearsed numerous times paving the way for large scale field training exercises on both sides of the Iron Curtain. The United States Army's forces in Germany annually conducted the REFORGER or Return of Forces to Germany exercises and the British conducted exercises of their own such as Exercise Lionheart. Often in these military exercises allied military units from other nations would also participate to practice interoperability and enhance military cooperation and training.


As a response to these military exercises, the Soviet Union often staged large wargames of their own with Warsaw Pact militaries…"
Full article here
link

picture

Amicalement
Armand

nickinsomerset13 Jul 2013 3:53 a.m. PST

And on our exercises it was always the Warsaw Pact that invaded the West,

Tally Ho!

darthfozzywig13 Jul 2013 11:04 a.m. PST

That's a scary read.

In the belief that NATO forces would largely be on the retreat from overwhelming Warsaw Pact forces, Soviet commanders theorized that they would reach and secure the city of Lyon by the 9th day of the war before reaching their final positions at the Pyrenees Mountains along the border with France and Spain.

Even scarier given the wishful thinking there. My response is "what Warsaw Pact forces?" If the Soviets nuked anywhere close to the number of cities hypothesized, NATO's response would have been wide-ranging and utterly catastrophic.

skippy000113 Jul 2013 9:47 p.m. PST

Those Warsaw Pact forces would have turned into ghouls and supermutants from Fallout before they cracked the Rhine.

darthfozzywig13 Jul 2013 11:08 p.m. PST

A frightening reality, skippy.

Milites14 Jul 2013 6:41 a.m. PST

Interesting answer to the question, would all the Warpac allies actually fight? What was to stop this story being relayed to ground forces, on the eve a real invasion, even if it was false?

You could also look at it as a classic case of over-optimism for the efficacy of your planning. Good job the big strategic nukes added the crucial element of uncertainty, which kill such snake oil strategies.

Darth, if you check out the link you are talking about less than 10 megatons total, with most strikes in the 200 kiloton range, targeting specific military units. Interesting idea for scenarios based in Italy and Austria, not the interminable Hof gap Red blitzes, beloved of gamers and techno-thriller writers.

wardog14 Jul 2013 2:05 p.m. PST

why is Austria being nuked, thought she was neutral/non nato

darthfozzywig14 Jul 2013 9:03 p.m. PST

Darth, if you check out the link you are talking about less than 10 megatons total, with most strikes in the 200 kiloton range, targeting specific military units.

…all of which are US personnel in the midst of West German and UK civilians. There's no way that wouldn't draw a response.

Milites15 Jul 2013 10:47 a.m. PST

As I said, good job the strategic nukes added uncertainty, Still, it's intriguing that the risk-averse Soviets contemplated this scenario of limited nuclear exchange. Given their penetration of Western security networks (especially W Germany's) it does beg the question, is their something they knew? Or, is it a case of a story to hang a series of training exercises on?

Whenever nuclear deterrence is mentioned I always think of this scene from the British comedy 'Yes Prime Minister'

YouTube link

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