"Activation scheme, trying to spot holes in the rules" Topic

I'm currently using a combination of Alternating Activation (AA) and a Command Point (CP) system. The game is currently a scifi shooting based 28mm skirmish with fireteams of about 4 models instead of squads.

It's a little complex but handles a lot of problems I see with alternating activation systems, while still keeping the game flowing between players instead of entire armies blowing up the other side in a turn. Or at least, that's what I hope. Maybe you can spot some holes in this design? Also testing out the wording of these rules to see if they're too confusing. These rules will be available for free online so I might as well ask for help.

Each player has a pool of command points that is refreshed at the beginning of the round. The average command pool will be around 10 CP.

Every player turn, they get one Primary Activation (see below) for free. An additional activation costs 1 CP and can be a different unit. A third activation costs 2 CP, and so on.

There are two types of Activations, Primary and Secondary. A unit may take only one Primary Activation per round, once it does so it is Exhausted. A unit may take any number of Secondary Activations per round, but only 1 per turn.

Primary Activations are actions that do a lot, usually two effects or doubling up, such as Running (double movement), Move and Shoot, or Focused Fire (shooting with a large bonus).

Secondary Activations are smaller things, such as a short move (based on a secondary move stat) or shooting with a snap fire penalty. These are meant to allow units to keep applying pressure during a round using CP, but not be too devastating.

When the player is done with his turn, either from using up his free activation and being out of CP, or unwilling to take any more activations, he passes it to the next in turn order. Play continues like so, with players taking multiple turns, until all players' Command (Point) Pools are exhausted, after which the round ends. If a player has no units capable of taking the free Primary Activation on his turn, he must spend 1CP on a Secondary Activation, or 1CP to pass his turn.

If at the start of his turn, a player may also spend CP to force an opponent to take a Primary Activation with one of his non-Exhausted units, so long as they have 2 or more non-Exausted units than you.

CP is also expended to use some of the more powerful unit and command abilities.

The base Command Pool is a small number, around 4 CP, depending on the point value of the battle. How you get extra CP in the command pool is by buying command type units or models, which can be targeted and destroyed during play.

The army balance will work out so that small elite armies will tend to have a lot more CP to maneuver and use abilities, their higher stats will make up for the penalties inherent in Secondary Activations. They'll also be able to force enemies to activate units, resolving the problem in AA games where whoever has more units gets an advantage by burning up activations from random schmoes.

It also keeps the game moving, as during a round, a unit can very quickly move up the table if its controlling player spends the CP to keep pushing it up. It should also lessen the need for rules like Outflank and other deployment shenanigans, since you can actually move up flanking units without them disappearing off the table.

Let's see, without going past the beginning of this.
I have 10 CP. I get a primary activation for free.
A second one costs me 1, a third one costs me 3 (7 left), a fourth one costs me 4 (3 left). Now I have 3 CP that I can't use?

How many units do I have? Is each one allowed a primary (and then secondary, etc.) activation? If there are more than a couple units, keeping track of who is on primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. becomes difficult.

As you can see, I'm confused. It happens more as I get older.

vtsao has summarized my own impressions in his way – why is a distinction between primary and secondary activation even necessary? Right now, from what you´ve outlined above, I see no reason to split these. Maybe you need to explain more in-depth what the difference between those is. It seems to me like you could combine both concepts using the finer-grained "secondary" activations as a basis, as "primary" activations just seems to be a combination of 2 secondary activation (e.g. move twice or shoot & move). But again, maybe I got your idea wrong. More explanation required, I guess ;)

It seems pretty clear to me, and heaven knows I'm no spring chicken at this point. As described, this smallish example (with very few units and CP) should be correct:

At the start of the first round, Side One has (say) four units, A, B, C, and D, and the base 4CP to work with. Side Two has three units, X, Y, and Z, and 5CP to work with.

Side One's player goes first, and opts to activate unit A, taking its free Primary Activation. This Exhausts unit A, but (if I'm reading things right) he can still opt to spend 1CP to force it to take a Secondary Activation, and does so. He then opts to pass the initiative to Side Two, with 3CP left in his pool.

Side Two activates unit X, taking its free Primary Activation, then passing without spending any of its 5CP.

Side One then activates unit B, spending 1CP to take a Secondary Activation but not Exhausting the unit. He then passes, leaving him with 2CP left and units B, C, and D non-Exhausted.

Side Two activates unit Y, taking its free Primary Activation and Exhausting the unit, then passes again.

Side One again spends 1CP to take a Secondary Activation with unit B, which remains un-Exhausted. This leaves him with 3 fresh units and 1CP.

Side Two now spends 1CP to force Side One to take a Primary Activation with a fresh unit (anything but A – let's say unit B), since there are two more fresh units on Side One than on Side Two. He then takes a free Primary Activation with his last fresh unit, Z, follows it up by spending 1CP to take a Secondary Activation with any of his units, and spends another 2CP to take yet another Secondary Activation with a different unit. This leaves him with all his units Exhausted and only 1CP remaining, but let's say the frenzy of activity destroys/routs unit D, which had been fresh up until then.

Side One then activates. With 1CP and only unit C left fresh, he opts to spend his last CP to take a Secondary Activation with any unit, delaying unit C's free Primary Activation.

Side Two has 1CP left now, no fresh units, and elects to spend the last CP to take a Secondary Activation with one of his units to try to get away from whatever nastiness unit C has planned. At this point, Side Two is done for the round.

Side One now finishes the round by taking his free Primary Activation with unit C, leaving both sides with no CP and no fresh units.

Now, all that sounds hellishly complicated (and it's certainly tricky to write out) but I suspect it'd actually play pretty smoothly on the table with very little practice. Certainly seems like it would add a lot of tactical depth, although I suspect having 10+ CP as an average may be too high to keep round length reasonable. That would also depend a lot on how many units/maneuver elements are envisioned as the norm for an army, of course – a small, elite force with piles of CP would probably work fine, while a huge mass of conscripted/hivemind units with very few CP might work out to about the same length of play.

All in all, sounds like a clever system, and a good departure from the common alt-act system.

FWIW, the only thing I'm not sure on is whether you can spend 1CP to take a Primary Activation on a fresh unit or not. That is, could (say) Side One above have opened by taking a free Primary with unit A, spent 1CP to take a Primary with unit B, and spent 2CP more to take a Primary with unit C? That would leave all three Exhausted and only 1CP remaining for the round, seriously limiting his options, but it sounds like a bit of a tidal wave of activity. Should the Activations from CP expenditure be limited to Secondary only?

It needs you to explain it, at least to folks like me.

Nothing new there. Most new rules are easier to learn by practice than by reading, which is why having play examples in rulebooks is so important and being taught by an experienced player is almost always the best way to get in to a game. Me, I edit rules as a sideline – picking them up from just the raw text is an occupational hazard.

Looks interesting. If a player still has inexhausted units, is he required to use a primary activation on one during his turn?

Thanks!

I'm assembling a play example to give a better idea of how the system works. But let me answer what I can right now.

The average army will have around 7 units + some HQ or independents. Attached to some units will be command models that raise the Command Pool. Also, some command models won't contribute to the Command Pool, but instead give a CP that can be used within a limited range.

Many units, commanders, or attachments will have powerful abilities triggered with CP, players will need to use these to gain an advantage.

The first Primary Activation is free in the turn. A second activation costs 1 CP, a third activation costs 2 CP. The total so far being 3 CP used. If the player was to activate a fourth unit, it would cost 3 CP for a total of 6 CP used that turn.

Players have multiple turns in a round, so if you don't use all your CP during your turn, you'll be able to spend the rest on later turns. In fact, it can be advantageous to not spend everything in one turn because it's cheaper to spread CP use across multiple turns.

Yes, a player is required to use his Free Primary Activation on an unexausted unit if he has any. Players must take a Primary Activation every turn if he is able to.

You can pay CP to have more than one unit take a Primary Activation that turn. There is no limit. The benefits are supposed to be balanced by burning that usage early, and essentially wasting a CP and leaving yourself without anything to do for the rest of the round.

The reason for this is that with Alternating Activation systems, combined arms is lessened since your opponent can perfectly react to every move you make since he always uses a unit right after you. Allowing multiple Primary Activations in a turn allows you to have that combined arms move you see in "My Army, Your Army" systems like Warmachine and 40k/Fantasy, but at the cost of burning a lot of CP on activations to do so, not to mention CP to power whatever special abilities used on top of that.

The reason for the split between Primary and Secondary Activations is somewhat arbitrary. I originally used the terms Actions, where your Free activation got 2 actions (Move, Shoot, etc). The reasons why I switched was that I wanted the Secondary Actions to be limited in some way, such as the Snap Fire penalty. In my mind, I envisioned units taking unlimited Shoot actions many times a round being a bit too powerful, and would lead to games becoming static firing lines of units endlessly burning CP to shoot. The same goes for movement, which is why there's a Secondary Movement value, average infantry moves 6/4, which is 6" on a Primary Movement (12" if running), and only 4" on a Secondary Movement.

Another reason I have this system is that it removes the need for Opportunity/Overwatch rules that interrupt the flow of play. If a unit uses a secondary move to break cover, that small 4" move usually isn't enough to make it into another piece of cover, so it can be shot at while in the open after it goes to the next player's turn.

However, if that same unit is off in some corner or flank of the table, and there's no enemies around, you should be able to just press that flank hard by spending 1 CP every turn on movement up the side, followed by it's Primary Activation near the end of the round to move to get a flank shot and fire.

Yes, a player is required to use his Free Primary Activation on an unexausted unit if he has any. Players must take a Primary Activation every turn if he is able to.

Interesting, that's not how I read it. If so, this probably needs clarification:

If at the start of his turn, a player may also spend CP to force an opponent to take a Primary Activation with one of his non-Exhausted units, so long as they have 2 or more non-Exausted units than you.

So, you'd spend the CP, the enemy unit would take a Primary Activation (still not clear who chooses which unit does so – the owner, or the person spending the CP), and then you'd take your own free Primary?

Not sure I see a need for forcing the use of the free Primary each turn. Why not allow people to "stall" on Exhausting units by spending CP on a Secondary each turn for a while? You'd be trading CP and relatively limited effectiveness for the ability to take your Primary "big push" later in the turn, and it would have an inherent limitation, since your opponent will eventually have enough Exhausted units to start spending CP to force your units to take their Primaries like it or not.

I forgot to include the Primary Activation requirement rule in my first write up. Apologies.

Spending 1CP to stall is an option that I'll have to playtest once a playable version of the rules is ready.

The same goes for Forced Activations.

Off-hand, I just don't like the idea of that kind of stalling, because in certain key moments, it will get a bit silly to have both players stalling out their turns.

In some AltAct games I've played, some rounds just boiled down to me and my opponent filing through our useless, or trash units just to get the opponent to activate his important thing first. I want to avoid anything like that, and make players focus on aggression.

But, everything is subject to change once playtesting starts.

In some AltAct games I've played, some rounds just boiled down to me and my opponent filing through our useless, or trash units just to get the opponent to activate his important thing first. I want to avoid anything like that, and make players focus on aggression.

Well, if Primaries are sufficiently better than Secondaries, you've got a built-in engine for that even if you allow Secondary-stalling. If one side is delaying by frittering away 1CP per turn to take a Secondary, the other side can either do the same or respond by being aggressive and taking the free Primary and spending 1CP to use another Primary, maximizing his activity per turn at minimum cost. It risks getting outmaneuvered/outshot at the end of the round when everything's Exhausted on his side, but if you're eliminating or routing enemy units early it should be a viable tactical response.

I'd also suggest limiting the ability to even buy "trash" units if that's an issue. Even with mandatory Primaries each turn, if you can build a force with a couple of heavy hitter units and a bunch of trash, you can bet the trash will get shoved out in front to allow the hitters to delay till a key moment, even with your activation system – with the usual reversal of sequence once the hitters are positioned to deliver some real hurt, at which point they go first, and probably take a Secondary for 1CP every turn thereafter.

Turtle

You might enjoy checking out the Overdrive system I used in Battlefield. Here's a little overview of how it works:

During a given turn, for each additional action that a particular unit takes, you double, triple, etc. the base cost of the action. Next additional cost are added for circumstances and conditions if appropriate. This is used to simulate the cost of dealing with various effects that range from difficult terrain to suppression.

The base costs for actions are weighted with most being either 1 or 2 AP. Movement and spotting are examples of a 1 AP actions. Shooting, placing a mine, and laser designating a target are examples of 2 AP actions. There are multiple design reasons for this, but at the most basic level it models the physical effort and focus associated with an action.

There are no free actions in the game [with the noted exception of bound maneuvers as a result of suppressive fire]. This means that if you want to ready an action or go into overwatch, then you have to pay the cost in AP on your turn and commit your attention to an area or zone. This stops those endless reaction loops and promotes aggressive play.

Okay, here's an example of play using this activation scheme. The setup is a group of Sol Marines have encountered a Krr'Akar expedition into neutral space searching for artifacts. The Krr'Akar belong to The Remnant Order faction and are a reptile-like species made up of diminutive, less intelligent, and more numerous males, led by larger and more intelligent females who are escorted by Alphas, which are males that have undergone a physical and psychological puberty as the result of success in its tasks.

Sol Marines are a federation of many species, including humanity, centered around a metropolitan civilization and integrated army.

Battle size here is roughly 750, although, in a real 750 there would be a few more units. This is just an example quickly thrown together. Disruption mentioned here is a mechanic I have yet to fully implement (and may be cut)

Here is their deployment:

SOLCOM is the Sol Command Unit, she contributes 3 CP to the global Command Pool, on top of the base 3 CP at 750 points.
Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie are Line Infantry, basic infantry for Sol.
Alpha and Charlie have an embedded leader, giving them 1 CP to use on itself or any unit in command range.
Delta are SpecOps on loan from the SRRD (Spinward Rapid Response Division), also performing operations in the area. They get 1 CP usable on themselves only due to being specops.

The Krr'akar Matron is the expedition's leader, she rules her brood with an iron fist, accompanied by 4 well armed Alphas.
The Krr'akar Maidens 1 and 2 are sub-commanders, younger females who are still earning their place in society.
Squads Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, and India are all Krr'akar auxiliaries, made up entirely of the smaller Krr'akar males.

Sol gets initiative, and chooses to go first.

Round 1, Turn 1: Sol

SOLCOM, seeing the mass of Krr'akar in front of him, chooses fireteam Alpha to activate using its Free Activation, having them Run forward 12" into a position with cover. Alpha is now Exausted (marked with an *)

He then spends 1 CP from Delta's CP to have it Secondary Move 4" up the right flank, hoping to counter Hotel and India and eventually get a shot at Maiden 2. Delta had previously deployed farther up the table thanks to its specops abilities.

Using 1 global CP, and 1 of Charlie's CP, the Sol player pays a total of 2 CP to have Charlie Secondary Move 4" up to be in a better position to support Alpha, as well as keep Hotel and India in place.

Sol player ends his turn.

Round 1, Turn 2: Krr'akar

Foxtrot uses its Free Activation for the turn to Focused Fire (Primary Activation Shooting) against Alpha. Resulting in 1 kill, and some Disruption. Foxtrot is Exhausted.

Using a CP from Maiden 1, Golf is ordered to Advance (move and shoot), moving forward 6" and also shooting at Alpha, resulting in no kills, but a little more Disruption. Golf is Exhausted.

Echo uses a Primary Activation to Run, paying 2 CP, and runs straight forward to get in position to finish off Alpha with its close range Stutter Guns. Echo is Exhausted.

Krr'akar player ends his turn.

Round 1, Turn 3: Sol

Alpha is just out of SOLCOM's extended command range, so SOLCOM uses its Free Activation to Advance 6". The SOLCOM model, instead of shooting, spends 1CP to use a Command ability to drastically reduce Alpha's Disruption. Her two escorts, fire at Golf, causing 1 kill, and no disruption.

Alpha spends its 1 CP to do a Secondary Activation and Snap Fire at Echo, causing 1 kill and some disruption.

2CP is spent to activate Delta to Secondary Move another 4" up the right side.

Sol player ends his turn.

Round 1, Turn 4: Krr'akar

Hotel uses its Free Activation to push forward, trying to isolate Alpha. It Advances, moving up 6" and fires at SOLCOM to no effect due to range.

Spending 1 CP from Maiden 2, India takes a Primary Activation to Advance as well, moving up 6" and firing at Charlie, inflicting 1 kill and little disruption.

Round 1, Turn 5: Sol

Seeing the Maiden without nearby screening troops, the Sol player uses his Free Activation on Delta, taking a Primary Activation to advance, then spending 1 CP to call in a Screamer air to ground attack drone strike. The strike connects, and in a series of good rolling kills her 2 Alphas before it is shot down by point defenses. The remaining Maiden makes its morale check and remains in play.

Sol player ends his turn.

Round 1, Turn 6: Krr'akar

Maiden 2 uses its Free Activation to Advance, moving 6", instead of shooting, she uses a once per round special ability "Scurry" with no CP cost to force India to make a Secondary Move 4" to screen her from Delta.

Spending 1 CP, Maiden 1 advances, and uses the same once per round ability to Secondary Move Foxtrot up close enough so that she can't be targeted.

Krr'akar player ends his turn.

Round 1, Turn 7: Sol

Charlie uses its Free Activation to Focus Fire on Golf, using its grenade launcher that is now in optimal range. The rounds kill 2, and cause a great deal of disruption. Golf is almost at a morale check.

Bravo uses Sol's last CP to Run forward in support range of Alpha.

Sol player ends his turn.

Round 1, Turn 8: Krr'akar

The Matron uses her Free Activation to Run closer to her troops, in preparation for next turn.

The Matron spends 1 CP to activate again, this time using an ability to drastically increase the morale of Golf, while also bolstering its defense.

Krr'akar player passes his turn.

Round 1, Turn 9: Sol
Sol has no unexausted units, and no CP left, he must pass his turn. Although, any turn based effects are still resolved, and he is still considered to have taken a turn.

Round 1, Turn 10: Krr'akar

The Krr'akar player has no unexausted units, but has 1 CP left. He must spend it to pass, or on a Secondary Activation. He chooses to have Hotel take a Secondary Activation to Snap Fire at Bravo, causing a bit of disruption.

Krr'akar player passes his turn.

Round ends.

Good scheme – I like it. I agree, it sounds complex but I imagine it would play pretty quickly once you start going. Personally I don't like the 'endless activations' game – there's only so much a body can do in a period of time, and activating the same unit at full move/fire multiple times in a round doesn't seem kosher to me. Can still be a fun game, but I don't find it realistic.