"The "Invisible Rules" Approach to RPGs" Topic

The recent discussion of levels and "which D&D to use" puts me in mind of an concept I came across near the end of my regular DMing days— what I call "Invisible Rules." (I think it was in a Dragon magazine article, but they didn't call it that.)

Here's the basic idea: The DM picks the rules he wants to use, but informs the players that they won't have them or any numerical indication of their status or abilities. The DM talks with them about the sort of character they want to play, focusing on a logical and interesting backstory, and from this, gives them general descriptions of physical/intellectual abilities— "You've always been stronger than anyone you know." "You're about average in strength, but you're extremely quick and nimble." "You've never been strong, but since you were small you've grasped complex problems and minutia quicker than even your brightest teachers." The DM alone keeps track of their characters' attack and damage modifiers and hit points, again using descriptive language to indicate their state and health: "The goblin's sword slashes across your thigh; pain screams up your leg, but you can still stand and fight." "You're gasping for breath. Another blow like that will likely finish you." That gets away from the min-max and leveling and "how many XPs do we get" stuff. It also forces the players to engage in more deliberate role-playing, and make guesses based on fuzzy info— just as we do in real life. How good really is that magical sword? "Did you hear how it sang when I struck the skeleton? The bones just splintered into pieces!"

Yes, this means there's a lot more for the DM to manage and track, and the players are denied the pleasure of "rolling up" a character, but for a dedicated role-playing group, it could be quite a creative experience.

Has anyone ever played a game like this?

That's pretty much how the Amber Diceless RPG works, although there is some numerical data available to the players – but generally only for determining relative capabilities with other PCs. And the sneakier people will make sure that even then, only the DM will ever be sure who's tops in a given category.

The major drawback is that it adds to the DM's workload considerably, and requires absolute trust in the DM's fairness by the players, which can be hard to achieve.

Tried it once as a PC not a DM. I thought it was kinda fun & interesting but before the night was over there were accusations if cheating, fixing fights, favoritism & railroading. You never knew.

What Chief Lacky Rich said. As a DM I like to share the workload as much as possible.

I run my BRP fantasy game that way and I like it as a player… but my regular Saturday night group would throw a fit if.anyone tried to take their numbers away. Sometimes I think they enjoy the math more than the story.

Played quite a few games like this, although it works better for single mission type games e.g. special forces type stuff, rather than the more typical rpg campaign. We have also done historical games like this.

Focus on the mission, personal motivations and the situation rather than numbers.

I'd love to play RPGs that way but it must be a headache as a GM. It would depend on the system too I suspect – I don't think it would suit modern D&D for example with its heavy focus on character sheet number crunching.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Haven't tried it though, but seems to me it would be a lot more realistic.

Plus, it might be fun for to see those (characters, and players) with a high opinion of themselves being occasionally taken down a peg or two, just for fun.

Seems to me if the GM has a quick reference card for the different player characters, it shouldn't be too difficult at all.

Might tie in nicely with the Mythic rules, and/or campaign system rather well also.

One guy I knew ran that sort of game and it worked very well. The trick is that he way a very good story teller anyway.

I would not be remotely interested in playing (or running) a game like that.

It sounds like it would be fun for the players and much more work for the DM (which could translate into more admin time for the DM which would mean more lulls for the players as they wait for the DM to catch up.)

As to the descriptive wordings, let me correct them to match my typical character:

You've always been stronger than anyone you know.

You've always been weaker than anyone you know.

You're about average in strength, but you're extremely quick and nimble.

You're near the bottom in strength, and you're extremely slow and clumsy.

You've never been strong, but since you were small you've grasped complex problems and minutia quicker than even your brightest teachers.

You've never been strong, but since you were small your ability to grasp the simplest of problems pales in comparison to the dullest of your fellow students.

Followed by, … but dang, you look good in a chainmail loin cloth!… or at least you think so.