"TimeCast eBay pirate - round 2!" Topic

Yesterday we mentioned that we have good reason to believe that some of our models are being copied and sold on eBay.

We have reported the items to eBAy and have filed an IP infringement complaint against the user.

We have also e-mailed the seller regarding his copying of our models, however so far he has declined to respond…

So…

The seller's eBay username is "keith260248". He is selling several items of 6mm models. The following two items include what we believe to be unauthorized copies of TimeCast codes 3/004, 3/005 and 3/012:

auction

auction

If these are genuine TimeCast models then keith260248 is welcome to contact us and prove it, however all our evidence indicates that he is recasting our products and we will be contacting Trading Standards shortly.

The quality of the casting appears to be pretty poor, and as for the standard of painting….well you can make up your own minds.

Barrie

I was looking at these but, as you say, the quality isnīt there, and besides he doesnīt post to the Czech Republic. I can be happy about that!

Why is it these pirates always have 100% positive feedback?

Good luck on putting this scoundrel out of business!

If these are genuine TimeCast models then keith260248 is welcome to contact us and prove it, however all our evidence indicates that he is recasting our products and we will be contacting Trading Standards shortly.

Having been accused of re-casting peoples stuff (figures and buildings) myself and having been innocent myself, I would think if they are genuine, he has no obligation to prove it.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Not guilty until proven innocent…

However if they are re-casts then hang him up and have him charged by the police.
Or do what Leon from Adler said!

:P

Michael.

I own those bridges, bought at your stall at Salute years ago. My painting may be equally shoddy, but the casting certainly isn't. Keiths stuff looks very dodgy to me.

While I would not be happy to find out someone was recasting, I have to support the claim of innocent until proven guilty.

It's a sticky situation to be sure, but I personally wouldn't respond from someone I didn't know asking me to prove something. Now police, that's a different story.

I hope you find out what you need to prove it, I think if you do much more without proof you open yourself up to liability?

It's quite interesting viewing the feedback that has been left by them as a buyer.

Not only is there a 1/300 scale village that's been bought but also silicone mould making kits. Certainly looks like enough circumstantial evidence to warrant further investigation.

I have looked at the auctions link and some of the models are mainly military as well as those you claim are yours,
I used to own several of them, so I recognised them easily,
I wonder if he is copying the mm stuff?
why not get someone to bid on your behalf, make sure you win and then you can check them for the type of resin ect, I am sure the money would be worth it.
I have done this with some items I thought were copies of our models and was relieved that they were not, did not cost me too much.
it is not the guy from north wales who was copying peter pig, a few years back, as this guy is from Essex, unless he has moved house!

Good price though – makes me wonder where the motivation to copy comes from – must be a lot of effort to make nothing after the cost of the originals, the mould material and the casting material.

Mind you, I have original TC stuff, and I love it – the quality and painting is first rate. If I had a complaint it is that you guys don't bring painted stuff to shows for me to break my wallet on (that is, your own stuff – I often see you selling David Winter style cottages etc)

Semi literate as well.

However I agree with Crossover and Angel and think you should punt for some of his stuff and check it first hand. If he is copying – no mercy.

We have tried bidding for suspect items in the past. It is time consuming, might not work and potentially costs us money.

We are a small business trying to survive a severe recession. We do not make a lot of money and there are many TMP members who probably earn a LOT more than we do.

However, people who copy and sell our models are taking money away from us. Money we need to pay our business bills, our mortgages and feed our families. Screw that!

Now we go straight for the jugular with IP Infringement, Trading Standards and naming and shaming.

It is interesting to note that people who sell second hand TimeCast models on eBay generally make a point of saying they are TimeCast products as it is a good selling point and an indication of the quality.

Those sellers we have found selling pirated copies tend to avoid using our trade name.

The last one we dealt with effectively had his eBay account closed down.

We wouldn't be doing this if we were not sure that these are unauthorised copies.

Barrie

Norrins on 04 Jul 2013 4:30 a.m. PST wrote:

It's quite interesting viewing the feedback that has been left by them as a buyer.

And a month ago he purchased the same bridge (type) that he is selling in the current listing? The other stuff he purchased and has sold recently is very suspect.

Sorry to say a more typical E-Bay of the type we are seeing more and more on E-bay. I use to buy all the time hardly ever anymore.

VR
James Mattes

We are a small business trying to survive a severe recession. We do not make a lot of money and there are many TMP members who probably earn a LOT more than we do.

No doubt, I am in the same boat, earning much less than the minimum wage, so I appreciate how angry you will be seeing someone gaining from your own IP.

However, people who copy and sell our models are taking money away from us. Money we need to pay our business bills, our mortgages and feed our families. Screw that!

Quite right.
Many people seem to think that wargames companies are either part time and don't need the money for bills or are full time and make a fortune.

We wouldn't be doing this if we were not sure that these are unauthorised copies.

Good to know, I suspect that others like me were left in doubt as you used phrases like:

we have good reason to believe..

all our evidence indicates..

If these are genuine TimeCast models..

Which seem to show you are not sure.
However if you are, stick it to him and make him pay!

Shame you can't get a photo in case we spot him at trade shows…

\0/

A lot of circumstantial evidence and hunches that he is a pirate however, hunches aren't satisfactory proof for a court. You need a copy in your hand that you can prove is a counterfeit.

I certainly feel for you but he has no obligation to prove his articles are genuine and you can't prove they are not. I don't know what "Trading Standards" is but I would not be surprised if you are too small of a fish for them to bother with (no offense intended) due to the limited funds involved and small market base. I think you need to buy the items and have them tested by a third party because you need to make a business investment against future loss. If they are counterfeit, you press criminal charges and file a civil suit to recoup costs and damages.

Having read about pirate AB figures on ebay from China and now this I'm not buying any more wargames material from ebay. In the case of AB ebay have been utterly hopeless at enforcing their own anti-pirating measures to protect the vendor (ie Erueka) and suspect they will be equally hopeless in this instance.

I hasten to add that I never bought any copied painted AB's but a couple of lots of other figures I bought last year did have me wondering if they the genuine article.

I'm voting in support of the IP owners in boycotting ebay until they see fit to pull down accounts the known pirates.

I disagree that the alleged victim needs to buy the figures from the seller. First of all, why give money to someone you think is a crook and if they are fake, well good luck getting your money back, or any type of prosecution as all the crook will say is "I don't know where you got those from, they aren't the ones I sent…"

I suppose you could open the package in the presence of your lawyer who initials each piece or something…but really…

Agreed, you don't need to prove innocence but if I'm accused of a crime but have a defense / alibi, I'm certainly expected to supply it.

Thanks for reporting this incident.

A court isn't needed in Ebay's eyes. As to circumstantial evidence, I should think the manufacturer can tell if they are miscasts (not meeting their inspection/sale standards). Also, Timecast sell them painted, right? Easy to see if they weren't painted by Timecast, no?

This isn't a court of law. Ebay will take down auctions with a lot less evidence. I had one taken down for mentioning a guitar I was selling had a feature favored by a famous guitarist. No claims he played it, endorsed it or owned it and they took it down. I had to explain myself on the re-listing. This is what happens when you have hourly workers examining auctions and not understanding the category of goods they are inspecting.

Thanks for naming, I had these and a similar listing from this vendor on "Watch", despite the terrible painting standard. And yes, I did see some MM stuff in there.

Slightly tongue in check idea but why not buy from him and then put in a complaint with Paypal before they have a chance to arrive.

He buys one set of wwII africa/middle east maps, some wwII africa rules, one set of buildings, and like ten buckets of duplicating materials, mold making matterials etc…

Then is suddenly selling off piles of buildings that look like miscasts of the stuff he bought… Identical miscasts… in quantities well outside what he bought…

… I'm not saying it's "proven", but it sure seems to walk like a duck.

This morning we had an email in our inbox from keith260248 apologizing and stating he would remove the offending items and would not be listing them on eBay again, which he has done. Result.

I wonder what he'll try next. At least you seem to know his name and date of birth!

JDE

Excellent result but I'd be concerned he'll just change his Ebay name.

Good stuff.
Is it worth following up with further action?

Good news.

Frankly if he was flogging that lot for under four quid, why on earth did he bother? I can't see that the price he was asking even covered his own casting materials.

Frankly if he was flogging that lot for under four quid, why on earth did he bother?

He wasn't.
That was just the starting bid…

Good result.

We should all support manufacturers in their efforts to stamp out piracy of their products. Failure to do so can only hurt us all I the end.

These look cheap buildings (and tanks too!) ….. any comments?

auction

I hasten to add that I never bought any copied painted AB's but a couple of lots of other figures I bought last year did have me wondering if they the genuine article.

It's often possible to buy Battle Honours figures that look very similar in pose etc to AB. BH will usually be smaller than AB, but in some cases where there was overlap between the two manufacturers (eg Spanish infantry) they can look alm0ost identical, but with very subtle differences in kit, uniform, or hand positions that will give it away.

Well eBay didn't (and still won't) take down some very poor quality GW LOTR recasts I reported, and I notice now that another seller has bought a job lot and is selling them individually, spreading the problem and making it harder to avoid identified fakes. Nor did they take down a current issue Police badge that I also reported. They did, however, remove a plain oak 6ft long martial arts staff I listed, but would have allowed me to sell it if I had described it as a 'curtain pole', or 'novelty giant coffee stirrer' I presume…

Maybe let GW know about the recasts? I have heard that they are rigorous in defending their IP…

But eBay will close down a legitimate account if some tool registers ENOUGH complaints and then never sends the product back!!!! Ga, I hate how eBay does stuff sometimes!!!

We lost our eBay account when we had "too many complaints, too often"…. all from "different customers" ironically all living in a 2 block radius of each other…. As it turns out…. one of the addresses was legitimate… it was oen of our competitors….

Back in thsoe days, the seller had no rights with ebay to challenge and anyone could ruin your account!

Our business is STILL suffering form it, we were, in essence, and eBay company!!!!