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"Are Empire rules the best set ever...discuss?" Topic


32 Posts

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Napoleonic

1,640 hits since 2 Jul 2013
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

badwargamer02 Jul 2013 3:50 a.m. PST

are they?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 3:56 a.m. PST

No.

wyeayeman Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 3:57 a.m. PST

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 4:04 a.m. PST

Seems to be something of a split of opinion. On the earleir thread things were generally more negative.

I'm considering goign back to the quarrie rules or the pre-DBx WRG set. Which also used elements.

Lee Brilleaux Fezian Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 5:32 a.m. PST

Of course they are. Now, take your meds.

RudyNelson02 Jul 2013 5:39 a.m. PST

No.
One was inovative.
2 was playable but had issues.
3 was SLOW and not fun.
Never played the later versions.

marshalGreg02 Jul 2013 5:54 a.m. PST

They are "heavy" rules and take a lot of learning.
If you can have a game with many veteran players, there is no game like it though and will move along OK.
They are "Not for the faint at heart" and I do not see them anymore played at conventions so getting players will be an issue.
Revolution and Empire should be looked at, if you must go in this direction. Combat is streamlines to remove much of the mental calculations required in Empire 3 through 5 and is much the same type of play (many of the same authors played and helped to develop Empire)
Good luck!
MG

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 6:13 a.m. PST

Define best.

Personal logo Rrobbyrobot Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 6:15 a.m. PST

They are if you're a Francophile.

jdpintex02 Jul 2013 6:29 a.m. PST

They are if you don't mind 4-6 hour turns.

And you have many years left to your life so you don't mind wasting that time.

ubercommando Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 6:36 a.m. PST

Too complex to enjoy unless you're really familiar with them and your opponents are as well.

richinq Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 7:06 a.m. PST

Played Empire III about 25 years ago and had great fun. I have the latest version but have not played it.

I tend to play simplier games now as not enough time or brain power to learn complex rules.

I have looked at doing WRG napolenoic's again or maybe make my own rules.

Rich.

ancientsgamer Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 7:37 a.m. PST

Sure, if you like to play 3 day campaigns in quasi-real time :-)

They were THE rules to have once upon a time. III had some really nifty quirks. It was possible to have heavy cavalry like the Energizer Bunny in a charge. In other words, they could hit a unit, burst through, and hit the next unit and so on and so on.

I have heard more than one player complain that the French are over-rated in every period as well.

Having said all this, it is a good game. It is way more granular than most people care for these days. Once you get the game mechanics down, it goes reasonably well. I don't play it because my fellow gamers don't play it and I like to get a game done in less than a 12 hour day these days. Back in my youth, I didn't mind playing for a couple of days. Now, I don't have the time to spare or as much patience. So for me at the present, I wouldn't call it the best game.

I couldn't tell you what version to play either. As with many others, this is one of the first rules sets we have (I bought Empire II right when it was first released), there is more than a bit of nostalgia involved for many of us even though we no longer play it.

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 7:41 a.m. PST

If you can handle Advanced Squad Leader Empire should be no problem.

21eRegt02 Jul 2013 8:58 a.m. PST

Just depends on the type of game you are seeking. We only play it 3-5 times a year but NEVER have multi-day games. Each player has roughly a corps under his control, 6-8 players. For that size game I have not found an equal (or superior).

Mallen Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 11:16 a.m. PST

If your definition is "best" equates to something like "how can I generate the most number of heated arguements in a given time span" then yes, by all means.

If the Obamacare legislation was a game,……..

Jovian1 Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 11:56 a.m. PST

Are these threads being started to prevent this board from being folded back into the general Napoleonics board?

Mapleleaf Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 12:43 p.m. PST

For their time Empire was good and widely played. Some of ther ideas were very good and you see them reflected in other rule sets today.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 12:48 p.m. PST

@ Jovian – one can only assume so. Of course, it's past the threshold The Editor established to kill it, so I don't know why folks would bother.

Except for boosting their post count.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 12:48 p.m. PST

Like this.

badwargamer02 Jul 2013 4:07 p.m. PST

darthfozzywig ->…who would care what their post count is?? If someone did they really should get out more! Unless of course they get free cake in which case I might take an interest!

Jovian1 -> In the words of the great Hong Kong Phoey….."could be!"

or just for a mild bit of amusement…..

reggie88 Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 4:45 p.m. PST

You've GOT to be joking, correct?

WarDepotDavid Inactive Member02 Jul 2013 6:33 p.m. PST

No but they can get pretty close with a couple of minor changes. But then no other rules are either.

It really depends on the group you play with.

We play weekly on a Tuesday night and finish a multi corps battle with around 6-8 players every couple of weeks.

Yankees Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2013 7:04 p.m. PST

The game in its time was a leader. Scott Bowden was a genius . But it needs a coffin and must be buried and forgotten. There are battalion level games that represent the period better and mechanics that can be completed in two or three hours. Sorry Empire is dead but for you die hardship that want to live the 70's in time know one will play empire.

JimSelzer03 Jul 2013 9:11 a.m. PST

had them sold them nuff said

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2013 1:06 p.m. PST

Did someone mention cake?

freewargamesrules Inactive Member03 Jul 2013 2:41 p.m. PST

No

Davout1972 Inactive Member03 Jul 2013 10:43 p.m. PST

You know, if your smart enough to read and post, your smart enough to play ANY version of Empire. The last 15 years have seen a "dumbing down of America". People want bullet comments, instead of reading. Everything has to be simplified, while technology around us daily becomes more intricate. Eventually, will everyone be so lost that a simple phone will become too complicated?

I understand the initial reason for simplistic games. Compete against any computer game with miniatures or board games, and you quickly realize you are in an up hill fight. There is no mess or cleanup with computers. No hours of terrain setup or dice rolling. Simple games attract new gamers quicker.

But, unfortunately, it is now fashionable to be simple. I for one, refuse to go along with this trend. I believe if something is worth pursuing and completing, then it will hardly ever be simple. Simple has no value; no worth. Any idiot can do simple. That's just not the way I'm built.

Empire represents what I appreciate in Napoleonic warfare. I like the logicial progression into battle; the bombardments that open the conflicts, the skirmish lines shaking themselves out as they advance, the cavalry leaning forward in their saddles, waiting to react to any target within range. Though it is somewhat complicated, I feel rewarded at the end of a game so much more than any other game. So what if most don't play this set of rules? I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Most people weren't soldiers, either. In America, only 1% of the population ever considers joining an organization that puts the needs of the many over the needs of the few, or the one. To be a part of something bigger than oneself. I am that 1%, and apparently with this rules set, too.

Sorry guys, to each his own. I am very content with these rules, and they just work fine for me. And remember what Ben Franklin said. "We are all born ignorant. Those that choose to remain so are just plain stupid".

21eRegt04 Jul 2013 6:45 a.m. PST

Davout1972 for the win.

Bandit Inactive Member06 Jul 2013 6:29 a.m. PST

I generally dislike stuff called "fast play Napoleonics". I'm all about playing in real-time. I don't want to conclude a battle that was fought in 8-12 hours in 3.

I share Davout1972's feelings even though I don't generally choose to play Empire.

Cheers,

The Bandit

heavyhorse Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member06 Jul 2013 12:08 p.m. PST

played 2 and 3 had 4 and played it some but liked 3 better..so we went back to 3 and changed the scale to 1/30 for visual effect French battalions became 24 ect and it looked very good..have GdB now but where I live it doesn't matter not gamers within 60 miles so I paint and collect what I want

Mithmee Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2013 5:59 p.m. PST

They were okay once you change alot of it to houserules to speed up playing time.

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