"Qattara depression" Topic

I just saw a report on TV about holidays in Egypt and how the Qattara depression has become a hotspot for 4x4 enthusiasts.

Of course this brings up the question, how "impassable" is the Qattara depression and could Rommel have found a way to flank or even bypass Auchinleck or Montgomery at El Alamein ?

I thought (but could well be wrong) that units like the SAS and LRDG used the Quattara depression as a travel route, albeit one with some difficulties.

So it wasn't literally impassable, but you couldn't get a mechanised army through it.

From what I understand, the only units that moved or attempted to move thru the Quattara were LRGD and SAS, in small groups … Of course today's 4x4s are much improved compared to the vehicles used by both those units in WWII. However that being said, Rommel's supply lines were extended as it was, and even to attempt a wide flanking maneuver would extent those supply lines even further and more tenuous … especially for large units …

There are some tracts across the Quattera which even the LRDG had trouble navigating. LRDG also had to be particularly careful to be in cover by daylight so the Luftwaffe wouldn't ruin their morning tea. The northern boundary is a cliff (I don't remember how high it is).

So, difficult or impossible to move and supply through, easy to spot any movement from the air and a nearly impassible exit to the north.

I believe that if there was a way to do it , Rommel would have given it a try.

It isn't one great quaking mass of quicksand, but it would be very hard indeed to move formations of any size through it, particularly dispersed against air attack.

You could move small units through without too much difficulty. As they are few in number, even supplies could reach them. Larger formations would find the depression impassible simply because you couldn't deliver enough supplies to them.

Larger formations would find the depression impassible simply because you couldn't deliver enough supplies to them.

The importance of this issue should not be underestimated.

For every tank you want to have in action, you need two trucks to haul supplies. You need fuel, ammunition, food and WATER, and all of it comes by truck. You need to resupply every night, as tanks use up a full load of fuel during a day's operation (during active combat operations they often use up a full load of fuel in a morning's operation!).

And the longer the supply route, the more trucks you need to haul supplies for the trucks that are hauling supplies (yes, you need trucks to carry fuel for the trucks that carry fuel!).

Almost none of those supply trucks were all-wheel drive. Maybe some of the Italian (or war-booty French) trucks were, but the German trucks were not.

The LRDG was a specialist group, scaled, trained and equipped specifically to manage long range patrols in the desserts of North Africa. They operated trucks, not tanks (far more fuel-efficient). They carried far more fuel and water than combat gear. The SAS (a combat oriented force) did not dare venture into the Qattara without LRDG support. This is why the two are so often discussed together. Without the LRDG, there could be no SAS.

Yes, the LRDG could cross the Qattara, but panzer forces were not going to manage it.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

I wonder if they will run into any forgotten minefields. Robert

As Mark 1 said, the key was that the Germans werejust about on the end of their logistical tether when they reached El Alamein. They only had a limited amount of trucking and even at 100% operational status for all those trucks and no combat losses, they still really didn't have the carrying capacity to maintain the troops and stockpile offensive supplies.

I'm not sure much of the QD was impassable in the strict sense of the word. As noted the LRDG & modern 4-wheel drivers use it. But as the site for a significant advance by a mechanised force, it was hopeless.

Certainly it was what we wargamers call 'difficult terrain'. This means there were many places that tanks or trucks would need to advance in single file, making great targets. That progress would be very slow in general & where dust clouds would alert the enemy you were coming.

All this means the QD was useless for the lightning thrusts beloved of Rommel & had the potential to cause huge casualties for anyone crossing it. Don't think it wasn't watched in the months leading to Al Alamein.

The Germans did try to outflank the British through the Qattara Depression--but Humphrey Bogart and Lulubelle stopped 'em!

Of course …

The depression is a huge area made up of some varied terrain types.

I would assume, never having been there, that some parts are a lot more accessible than others and these are used for the 4x4.

A friend from France has pointed out to me that there was, in face, one heavy combat unit that crossed the QD during the western desert campaigns.

B.M.11 made the trek around the time of the famous French stand at Bir Hakim.

B.M.11 was a battalion de marche … a self-contained formation raised ad hoc in the Levant (Lebanon/Syria) from French and Senegalese troops who rallied to the Free French.

In early June of 1942 the Free French 1st Brigade made their well-known stand at Bir Hakim, a position that anchored the southern end of the 8th Army's line.

When the 1st Brigade decamped from Bir Hakim on the night of June 10/11, the Free French 2nd Brigade advanced to meet the Bir Hakim refugees. B.M. 11 under 2nd Brigade command proceeded with a motorized column including French artillery and Indian armored cars, southwest some 300km to Djalo.

When the 8th Army began a general withdrawal B.M.11 was ordered to pull back. But they could not retrace the route of their advance, as it was now full of the Afrika Korps. So the unit successfully trekked 1,000km across the open desert, including the Qattara Depression, to reach Cairo.

For those who read French and wish to learn more on this interesting formation, or some of the other Battalion de March:
link

My thanks to Jean-Marc (also known as vdmfighter on the GHQ Forum) for the link!

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Very interesting question. I have long wondered just how impassable it was and how suddenly it began etc.

I wonder if anyone considered (horse) mounted infantry / camelry to screen it / breach it?

Did the Germans ever flirt with their own version of the LRDG? If they could have got even a few hundred commando types through it and round the British flank, they might have caused mayhem?

Very interesting Mark 1 … And here's a link Bulldog – TMP link The Germans had a few small units like this but more for recon than raids …