Help support TMP


"awi British troops as Continentals?" Topic


18 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please don't call someone a Nazi unless they really are a Nazi.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the 18th Century Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

18th Century

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Warfare in the Age of Reason


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

1:700 Black Seas British Brigs

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian paints brigs for the British fleet.


Featured Book Review


1,500 hits since 18 Jun 2013
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

StCrispin18 Jun 2013 6:36 a.m. PST

been a long time fan of the period, but now that i'm collecting figures for it, I need to learn the details! I know that there are lots of variations in British and American dress throughout the war, but would it be a horrible crime to paint models of British troops (i.e. Perry plastics)with tricorns as Americans? what were the major differences between the clothing of the Continental army and the iconic version of the British troops? (wasn't it called parade dress?)

GROSSMAN18 Jun 2013 6:52 a.m. PST

You are asking the wrong crowd. Some may say sure why not, others may want to have you flogged.
There are tons of uniform guides online to look at and at a glance the average Joe may not see much of a difference, but after looking through uniform plates you will start to pick up on the differences.
If you have a bunch of figures already of one type I say go ahead and change colors on them or try and trade for some figures of the other side. There are so many options out there to choose from though you should be able to find good deals on both sides.

John the OFM18 Jun 2013 7:07 a.m. PST

British line troops in the 1768 Warrant would have buttonhole lace.
Continental regiments did not have lace. (I would not be surprised if there were an exception or two.)
If you want to go to the bother to shave off the lace, go ahead. I don't havev these figures, btw. Maybe there is no lace! grin
Just remember that few Continentals would be so spiffy.
however, I have heard that plastic Continentals are coming out some time before the return of Haley's Comet.

"Parade dress" implies that they had a spare uniform for special occasions. This was their one uniform. No spares.

John the OFM18 Jun 2013 7:08 a.m. PST

BTW, why didn't you crosspost to "American Revolution"? grin

StCrispin18 Jun 2013 8:00 a.m. PST

didn't even see that there was an American Revolution Board! I'm new to the 18th century part of TMP. I forgot about the plastic Continental release. I probably will just wait for that. thanks for the input!

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Jun 2013 8:52 a.m. PST

I haven't looked closely at the Perry plastics, but if they are done to appear "on campaign" then maybe the lapel lace has been left off the figures. In that case, I'd say go ahead and paint them in blue or brown coats as Continentals.

Or you could buy Continentals from a broad selection of vendors such as Old Glory, Front Rank, Dixon, Eureka and Fife & Drum, just to name a few. The Old Glory figures are nice and reasonably priced, IMHO.

StCrispin18 Jun 2013 9:59 a.m. PST

yeah, the plan is to use OG second edition and perry plastics to make up the bulk of my collection with Perry metals and Fife and Drum figs mixed in when I can. I plan on picking up some Fife and drum Artillery at Historicon, and hopefully playing in a game!

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Jun 2013 12:03 p.m. PST

I will be running games on Thursday and Friday evening, hope to see you at Historicon.

GROSSMAN18 Jun 2013 1:04 p.m. PST

Fritz, what rules do you use, and do you have the PEL listing for your games?

Supercilius Maximus18 Jun 2013 1:37 p.m. PST

StCrispin,

Don't be afraid to come on here and ask – the 18th Century members are generally as gentlemanly as the period and are invariably helpful.

1) As the OFM says, most Continental units – with a few exceptions – had no buttonhole lace on their cuffs and lapels. The most notable exceptions were the NC, SC and GA regiments after the 1779 Regulations, although there were also one or two odd units from various locations before that, so you COULD use the Perry plastic British for them.

However, the poverty of those three States meant that it was unlikely this was widely observed (even the richer States up north had to make do with what they could get post-79, such as brown or dyed ex-British coats) so hunting shirts and civvies were probably the norm for them. Your figures, your call. Bear in mind, that many Continental units had more than one official uniform at a given time, and most changed their coat/facing colour combinations from year-to-year at least up to 1779, and in most cases thereafer as well. The late issue of clothing in many years often meant that the bulk of a unit fought its battles in their own clothes, with maybe only the NCOs and officers wearing any "official" uniform.

Now, most Loyalist units also seem to have done without buttonhole lace, especially after the move from green to red coats. There were several occasions when British regulars took their lace off, too – principally when they undertook "field modifications" to old uniforms when their new ones didn't arrive (eg the Burgoyne uniforms).

2) British uniforms changed a lot during the war…. and then again they didn't (ok, I may have lied earlier about us being invariably helpful……). The 1768 Warrant uniform was worn for the first year, maybe two, of the war, but popped up again in the South when some regiments arrived from Europe in 1781. Both Burgoyne's and Howe's armies modified their uniforms in 1777 – not in exactly the same ways, but often based on the fatigue clothing they had made from worn-out uniforms during the pre-war period.

The reason for the selection of hats in the Perry plastic box (and there'll be a similar selection for the Continentals and another for the Militia – all of which can be used by the British figures too, and vice versa) is that it gives you the chance to produce figures specific to one campaign or theatre.

3) You say you're a long-time fan of the period, what do you have in the way of books? Here is a list that would allow you to look up what information exists on most units in either army. Are you working to a budget (don't worry, we've all been there at some time)? If so, look at obtaining these titles via the inter-loan service of your public library:-

a) Uniforms of the American Revolution by Mollo & McGregor;

b) Uniforms of the Continental Army, by Philip Katcher;

c) Vol 3 of the History of the Uniforms of the British Army by CCP Lawson;

d) the two-volume Osprey Men-At-Arms titles on the Continental Army by Marko Zlatich; and

e) the two books on the American and British troops of the AWI (unusually, the Loyalists and Rebels are in the same volume), by Alan Kemp, published by Almark in the 1970s.

By cross-referencing these, you can usually have a good stab at painting up most regiments for some point in the war. And as I said earlier, if you're unsure about anything, you can always come back here. Be aware though, that there will be quite a lot of American units for whom we either simlpy don't know what they wore full stop, or more often we don't know what they wore at a given time; and then again, at other times, we might know quite a lot because someone wrote down what he wore at, say, Brandywine. If all else fails, units with a mix of hunting shirts and civilian clothing will cover most units up to 1779.

Hope that helped.

StCrispin18 Jun 2013 2:01 p.m. PST

very helpful. i am certainly on a budget. this period is one of many side miniatures projects, but one that i have been wanting to do for a long time. The revolution has always fascinated me. For the time being i am going for an iconic, perhaps "Hollywood" look, where most of my British will be in the Warrant uniform, and my continentals will be more rag tag with mixed hunting shirts and uniforms and all. i suspect i'll eventually get hooked on the details, at which point i'll get more accurate and spend all of my dollars. thanks all!

unfashionabledc18 Jun 2013 2:41 p.m. PST

A few suggestions for Continental units with coat lace:
2nd Va – all blue coat with white lace, hats cocked on the left side only.
Webb's Additional Regt – captured British coats and cocked hats(sources differ whether they removed the lace or not, but Troiani/Kochan think not:
link
Foreman's Additional – as above:
link

(Stolen Name)18 Jun 2013 4:10 p.m. PST

Perry have a huge range of all types of continentals for AWI on their webstore – they are just in metal not plastic

Old Contemptibles19 Jun 2013 3:05 p.m. PST

Well they make separate figures for them and they cost the same. I don't see the problem here. Perry's know their stuff, I trust that they made the correct figure in the correct uniform. Although I guess you could paint some British figs up in brown faced red and call them captured uniforms.

Recommend you post this on the American Revolution board, since someone went to the trouble of suggesting we needed a separate board.

spontoon19 Jun 2013 3:24 p.m. PST

Use 'em!

Drocton16 Mar 2014 4:01 p.m. PST

What about the opposite, using Perry plastic continentals as Loyalist troops (completely ignorant on the AWI as I am)?

Odins Warrior16 Mar 2014 5:48 p.m. PST

It's funny how your perspective changes in life. I used to be a thread-counting Civil War reenactor who carried that mentality over to miniatures. I woke up one day and wondered what all the fuss was. Can we really be so blind. I mean are there people out there that could not play a miniatures game if a unit was not accurately rendered? Particularly in the AWI given limited and sometimes conflicting source information. I mean if you don't have the imagination to conjure up button lace or no button lace do you really have the imagination to play with our plastic houses and trees and latex roads and rivers?

Please don't misunderstand me. I love doing the research on a period most of all and with my limited painting skills trying to make the units come alive again but somewhere imagination has to take over. It's needed less and less these days given the quality of the new miniature lines and the ability to share information over the net but I have to believe that this is the basic commonality that brings us as wargamers together.

kabrank17 Mar 2014 2:59 a.m. PST

Perry Plastic Continentals almost out now.

Probably available mid April for Salute in UK.

Part scan be swapped between the British and Continentals sets

link

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.